NFL: Saints defense had 'bounty' fund

[Pharmcat]

i dont get it

there were 20+ players involved but only 4 punished

either punish them all or none imo

[alwayslovetheceltics]

Jeff (and everyone else)- any latest thoughts in the happenings this week?

[LAKESHOW]

Funny part was I remember farve getting the **** beat out of him in that game. And some around here questioning his manhood...

[Bucksfans1and2]

Jeff (and everyone else)- any latest thoughts in the happenings this week?

Goodell is judge, jury, and executioner.

Goodell made his decision.

The Saints players went to an arbitrator disputing Goodell's ability to use the "For the good of the Shield" clause on things that happened on the field. The Saints lost.

The Saints (combined with the Cowboys and Redskins for the salary cap stuff) went to a different arbitrator (guy who did Ryan Braun's PED dispute) disputing Goodell's ability to punish for things that happened before the new CBA. The Saints lost again.

The Saints are now appealing to "The NFL" (Read as Rodger Goodell) "The NFL" is going to deny their appeal. The Saints know it which is why Vilma and his attorney are acting like petulant children. They don't like that Goodell is the one that makes the call, and also the person they appeal to. It's not really "American" but the Players Union signed the new CBA so they're pretty much screwed.

Frankly, I don't think Goodell is wrong making the call he did.

-Roman Harper is documented as being paid for a "cart off" against a Giants player (Kareem McKenzie IIRC)

-There's the well known slide of a sniper scope, Marshawn Lynch's face (with Tavaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst I believe), and a Dog the Bounty Hunter picture.

-They recorded a team statistic called "kill the heads" which Vilma lead with 62. They also had something called "whacks" which Roman Harper lead the team in with 15.

-Joe Vitt is documented as putting 5 Grand into a "QB Out Pool"

-We've seen a video of Hargrove saying "Pay me my money" after a coach saying that Favre broke his leg. (This one's disputed by Hargrove and the Saints. They might get it tossed in a court of law, but Goodell doesnt' have "beyond a reasonable doubt" to deal with.)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kLKY8CHO8c[/youtube]

- There are also supposedly a full plethora of players who confessed. As well as a full ledger that we haven't seen yet. There was also a confession that Vilma dropped 5Gs in a player meaning and said "For Favre" or something of the sort.

[alwayslovetheceltics]

Bucksfan-

Can you explain one thing to me? My understanding is, that pursuant to the CBA, Godell has sole jurisdiction to make decisions with respect to the bounty allegations, both in handing out the punishment, and on appeal- in effect, as you have said, he is the "judge, jury and executioner." Further, as you have noted, Godell's jurisdiction over these matters has been confirmed by an independent arbitrator. The CBA also governs what "evidence" must be handed over to the players before the appeals, as well as the other relevant procedures for the process. The Players agreed to the CBA. Why then are they complaining about the procedures that were used and claiming that they have been deprived of "due process" (as if the NFL were a court of law). They frigging signed the CBA- now they have to live with the consequences.

Are the players arguing the relevant provisions of the CBA should be set aside, and instead, a different, and more "fair" process should be used? If so- on what grounds are they basing this argument? (To be clear, i am not trying to argue that the players are right or wrong, I am just trying to understand their argument.).

one last question- Roman Harper was not punished because he was not a team captain or other position of influence- is that correct? If he violated the same rules that Vilma (and the others) did, I think he should have been punished consistently.

also thank you for responding with the update,

altc

Jeff (and everyone else)- any latest thoughts in the happenings this week?

Goodell is judge, jury, and executioner.

Goodell made his decision.

The Saints players went to an arbitrator disputing Goodell's ability to use the "For the good of the Shield" clause on things that happened on the field. The Saints lost.

The Saints (combined with the Cowboys and Redskins for the salary cap stuff) went to a different arbitrator (guy who did Ryan Braun's PED dispute) disputing Goodell's ability to punish for things that happened before the new CBA. The Saints lost again.

The Saints are now appealing to "The NFL" (Read as Rodger Goodell) "The NFL" is going to deny their appeal. The Saints know it which is why Vilma and his attorney are acting like petulant children. They don't like that Goodell is the one that makes the call, and also the person they appeal to. It's not really "American" but the Players Union signed the new CBA so they're pretty much screwed.

Frankly, I don't think Goodell is wrong making the call he did.

-Roman Harper is documented as being paid for a "cart off" against a Giants player (Kareem McKenzie IIRC)

-There's the well known slide of a sniper scope, Marshawn Lynch's face (with Tavaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst I believe), and a Dog the Bounty Hunter picture.

-They recorded a team statistic called "kill the heads" which Vilma lead with 62. They also had something called "whacks" which Roman Harper lead the team in with 15.

-Joe Vitt is documented as putting 5 Grand into a "QB Out Pool"

-We've seen a video of Hargrove saying "Pay me my money" after a coach saying that Favre broke his leg. (This one's disputed by Hargrove and the Saints. They might get it tossed in a court of law, but Goodell doesnt' have "beyond a reasonable doubt" to deal with.)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kLKY8CHO8c[/youtube]

- There are also supposedly a full plethora of players who confessed. As well as a full ledger that we haven't seen yet. There was also a confession that Vilma dropped 5Gs in a player meaning and said "For Favre" or something of the sort.

[Bucksfans1and2]

Bucksfan-

Can you explain one thing to me? My understanding is, that pursuant to the CBA, Godell has sole jurisdiction to make decisions with respect to the bounty allegations, both in handing out the punishment, and on appeal- in effect, as you have said, he is the "judge, jury and executioner." Further, as you have noted, Godell's jurisdiction over these matters has been confirmed by an independent arbitrator. The CBA also governs what "evidence" must be handed over to the players before the appeals, as well as the other relevant procedures for the process. The Players agreed to the CBA. Why then are they complaining about the procedures that were used and claiming that they have been deprived of "due process" (as if the NFL were a court of law). They frigging signed the CBA- now they have to live with the consequences.

Are the players arguing the relevant provisions of the CBA should be set aside, and instead, a different, and more "fair" process should be used? If so- on what grounds are they basing this argument? (To be clear, i am not trying to argue that the players are right or wrong, I am just trying to understand their argument.).

one last question- Roman Harper was not punished because he was not a team captain or other position of influence- is that correct? If he violated the same rules that Vilma (and the others) did, I think he should have been punished consistently.

also thank you for responding with the update,

altc

What we're seeing is the Players being sore losers. They filed two grievances and got smacked down by both arbitrators. There's no grounds to circumvent the process, like they're attempting. My guess is that they're hoping to raise a big enough stink to get the government involved like they did with steroids in baseball. NEVER going to happen because football, especially something like this, is toxic.

The first one was that because the incidents occurred prior to the new CBA, they shouldn't be punished.

The second was that because the incidents were "on field" their appeal should be heard by Art Shell and Tedd Cottrell. Goodell said that because even though the incidents happened on the field they were "detrimental to the integrity of the game" so he takes over as the one who hears the appeals.

Now the Appeals process is happening, and surprisingly Rodger Goodell is agreeing with Rodger Goodell's previous decision. Sucks to be the Saints but that's the way the CBA is set up.

As for Harper, I'm really not sure how he got off. My guess is that they didn't have anything to pin on him. His "cart off" appeared accidental. There was his late hit on Steve Smith but it's tough to prove that was motivated by a bounty. He had a whole bunch of iffy ones on Favre, but he pulled up on one which probably saved him.

The guys that went down typically had something big happen around them. Vilma's was dropping 5 Grand for Favre's head. Hargrove's was "Bobby, pay me my money" Fujita was one of the biggest contributors. Smith had a whole bunch of hits on Kurt Warner, and I think he was the one who hit Favre on the run play.