3-4 outside linebacker vs. a 4-3 outside linebacker

Ganesh Ujwal · Post #1 » by **Ganesh Ujwal** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:48 am

It looks like a 3-4 outside linebacker is more of a standup DE with some additional duties that include playing in space. This position appears to be more of a 'point of attack' style position. A 4-3 linebacker seems to play more off the line and is more of a 'play in space' kind of player that is more likely to pick up TE, backs for coverage and have more outside contain responsibility. I rarely see 4-3 linebackers get many sacks.

Is it common for a team that uses a 3-4 to have one of their outside linebackers be more of a blitzing linebacker and the other be a play in space person? Then the inside linebacker to the side of the blitzer, shift out wide. So in a base defense a 3-4 would be very similiar to a 4-3, but with 1 DE standing up. This is how I think the cowboys used Demarcus Ware. So now that he is switching to a DE in a 4-3, its very similiar to his previous position.

CentralQB5 · Post #2 » by **CentralQB5** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:09 pm

ok thanks

jackwindham · Post #3 » by **jackwindham** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:32 am

One of the most effective techniques in a 3-4 defense is having versatile linebackers, so that the offense doesn't know where the attack is coming from. Generally, there is at least one great pass rusher on the outside of the scheme. However, teams like the Niners have Smith and Brooks, both of whom can attack quarterbacks effectively.

The Penguin · Post #4 » by **The Penguin** » Mon Jan 5, 2015 9:18 pm

A 3-4 defense typically employs a NT to play right over the center and cover each gap on either side of the center, 2 DEs who are much more like DTs in a 4-3 than DEs in a 4-3 who play the gaps between the center and guard and 2 large OLB who are responsible for setting the edge in the run game and blitzing.

A 4-3 defense typically lines up a pass rushing DE over the left tackle, a DE who is better in the run game over the RT, and DTs responsible for the inside gaps.

Conceptually the job of 3-4 defensive linemen is to eat up the offensive linemen to keep the linebackers free to make plays and the defense blitzes any combination of linebackers and DBs (this is the famous Pittsburgh Zone Blitz concept). A 4-3 front relies on the front 4 to create pressure, usually not utilizing a lot of blitzes (and QB worth his salt will pick apart a blitzing defense), using 1 linebacker to handle the TE (the SAM or Strong backer), 1 guy in the middle (MIKE or Middle backer) and 1 guy to cover the opposite side of the TE (Will or Weak backer). Defensive front 7 3-4 players are usually bigger while 4-3 players are usually faster.

What you are talking about is a hybrid defense, which is a relatively newer concept. Buffalo (when Pettine was the DC), the Browns, Baltimore and the Jets are standard examples of hybrid defenses (Rex Ryan is one of the guys credited with coming up with it). These teams use players like Jerry Hughes, Quentin Coples, Terrell Suggs, Paul Kruger and Barkevious Mingo in the hybrid DE role and can give multiple fronts with the same base personnel.

jackwindham · Post #5 » by **jackwindham** » Tue Jan 6, 2015 11:46 pm

The Penguin wrote:What you are talking about is a hybrid defense, which is a relatively newer concept. Buffalo (when Pettine was the DC), the Browns, Baltimore and the Jets are standard examples of hybrid defenses (Rex Ryan is one of the guys credited with coming up with it). These teams use players like Jerry Hughes, Quentin Coples, Terrell Suggs, Paul Kruger and Barkevious Mingo in the hybrid DE role and can give multiple fronts with the same base personnel.

Belichick and his staff are pretty good about finding players that fit in a hybrid scheme as well. Sometimes, it's really difficult to figure out what front they're using, based on what is on the TV screen. I personally like it a lot.

The Penguin · Post #6 » by **The Penguin** » Tue Jan 6, 2015 11:55 pm

jackwindham wrote:
The Penguin wrote:What you are talking about is a hybrid defense, which is a relatively newer concept. Buffalo (when Pettine was the DC), the Browns, Baltimore and the Jets are standard examples of hybrid defenses (Rex Ryan is one of the guys credited with coming up with it). These teams use players like Jerry Hughes, Quentin Coples, Terrell Suggs, Paul Kruger and Barkevious Mingo in the hybrid DE role and can give multiple fronts with the same base personnel.

Belichick and his staff are pretty good about finding players that fit in a hybrid scheme as well. Sometimes, it's really difficult to figure out what front they're using, based on what is on the TV screen. I personally like it a lot.

Yes, that's why he paid a lot to money to Adalius Thomas who was considered the ideal Swiss army knife player for a hybrid front.

jon33km · Post #7 » by **jon33km** » Wed Jan 7, 2015 3:25 am

I still think the 4-3 defense is better to stop the run though.. It's hard to find a good NT

jackwindham · Post #8 » by **jackwindham** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:26 am

jon33km wrote:I still think the 4-3 defense is better to stop the run though.. It's hard to find a good NT

It really depends on the personnel and the scheme. Niners run a 3-4 defense, and they were among the best teams at stopping the run over the last couple of years. The Tampa 2 was solid against the run because the linebackers never really swayed far away from the second level of the defense. Far too many variables involved to assume that one is definitely better than the other against the run.

reeDfense · Post #9 » by **reeDfense** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:58 am

Typically the LOLB in a 3-4 has to be a bit more rod a run stopper...look at the Ravens defense.

jackwindham · Post #10 » by **jackwindham** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:48 am

reeDfense wrote:Typically the LOLB in a 3-4 has to be a bit more rod a run stopper...look at the Ravens defense.

You can get away with utilizing two pass rushing linebackers in a 3-4 scheme if the front line and inside linebackers are great at stopping the run.

HeartBreaking · Post #11 » by **HeartBreaking** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:46 am

i agree the seahawks will win

Post #12 » by **Icness** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:19 am

The Penguin wrote:A 3-4 defense typically employs a NT to play right over the center and cover each gap on either side of the center, 2 DEs who are much more like DTs in a 4-3 than DEs in a 4-3 who play the gaps between the center and guard and 2 large OLB who are responsible for setting the edge in the run game and blitzing.

A 4-3 defense typically lines up a pass rushing DE over the left tackle, a DE who is better in the run game over the RT, and DTs responsible for the inside gaps.

Conceptually the job of 3-4 defensive linemen is to eat up the offensive linemen to keep the linebackers free to make plays and the defense blitzes any combination of linebackers and DBs (this is the famous Pittsburgh Zone Blitz concept). A 4-3 front relies on the front 4 to create pressure, usually not utilizing a lot of blitzes (and QB worth his salt will pick apart a blitzing defense), using 1 linebacker to handle the TE (the SAM or Strong backer), 1 guy in the middle (MIKE or Middle backer) and 1 guy to cover the opposite side of the TE (Will or Weak backer). Defensive front 7 3-4 players are usually bigger while 4-3 players are usually faster.

What you are talking about is a hybrid defense, which is a relatively newer concept. Buffalo (when Pettine was the DC), the Browns, Baltimore and the Jets are standard examples of hybrid defenses (Rex Ryan is one of the guys credited with coming up with it). These teams use players like Jerry Hughes, Quentin Coples, Terrell Suggs, Paul Kruger and Barkevious Mingo in the hybrid DE role and can give multiple fronts with the same base personnel.

Nice nutshell explanation. There are wrinkles to both but you got this good

jackwindham · Post #13 » by **jackwindham** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:47 am

Icness wrote:Nice nutshell explanation. There are wrinkles to both but you got this good

One of my favorite wrinkles to the 3-4 scheme is by Phillips, who has his defensive linemen playing in a one technique. That goes against everything that I was taught about the base of the scheme, yet he makes it work. That's a big reason why I've long admired him as a coach.