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Game 122: Reds @ Brewers 7:05 PM

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Post#101 » by trwi7 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:29 am

Epicurus wrote:The point, of course, isn't what I know, but that you don't know 1/100 what Manager Yost knows and you are incredibly presumptuos to sanction him. And you are right. I hate scapegoating by a uninformed mob. Always have.


Ah yes there's so much to being a manager. You watch the film which is provided to you. You talk about how the pitcher likes to work and where to pitch to batters of the other team.

Then you fill out the lineup, sit in the dugout, scratch your balls, tell your pitching coach when to call to the bullpen, then go get the pitcher when you deem it necessary (repeat as necessary), call pinch hitters and then go back into the locker room.
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Post#102 » by Epicurus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:31 am

NO, read carefully what I really wrote. I did not say youth was the problem. Many PRESEASON pundits said that it would prevent the Brewers from winning the division. This was said in response to someone here who said many said the Brewers would win the division, which was said in response to my stating that I find it humorous to scapegoat the manager when the team is doing better than expectations. You have been and still are offering irrlevancies to what was actually said. Again reading is fundamental.
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Post#103 » by Epicurus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:43 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Epi, when they first fired Narron, you made a comment on here about how it would make no difference to how the team played and tied it into our crazy beliefs about Stotts. The replacement of Narron has made a difference.....clearly. And it is basically the same team that is playing better now. We don't have to account for a drastically different roster or some crazy "historical comparison" factor about how the players will perform differently in 2007 versus 2008 because the earth's gravitational pull on the baseball will be slightly different, making any year to year comparison of managerial performance invalid.

Neither you nor I nor anyone else knows if the replacement of Narron caused or facilitated the improved record. So many other variables exist. I am not going to explain any further, as I firmly believe it is impossible for you to understand anything beyond univariable causation.

I do know that every loss the same persons on Cincy forums accuse him of the same things they accurse Narron. And I do know that statisticans do predict some short term gains from a managerial change, but they also don't know why it occured.
Now, will that last the rest of this season? Will it carry into next season? Who knows. But for some reason or reasons the Reds are playing much better.....and the players are speaking out in favor of the new manager.....

A .500 team is progressing towards a .500 seasonal record (don't think they'll make it, but maybe they will--no matter, so what?) . Players always speak out in favor of the new manager. They did when Narron took over midseason. They did when Boone took over in midseason. And the Reds largely end up playing mediocrily once the interim becomes the permanent manager. The cycle rolls on. At least this time, the Reds didn't do the incredibly stupid change of promoting a coach to interim manager.
There is a metaphysical dimension to sports.......you can't ride it for multi-year stretches with the same players and coach, but some guys just have "it". And there are also certain managers and coaches who don't have "it" but also have a negative "it" where performance of the team is worse than what might be predicted.

And the mob screaming for scalps are often wrong--they don't have it, but it doesn't sto them from dreaming they do. In my lifetime, Ed Jucker would have been fired within the first month of his taking over from George Smith. but he wasn't and the Bearcats won two straight NCAAs, right after the depature of O. Many other cases, Sparky was unwanted by the mob and booed early in his first season. But the mob was excited getting that Shula boy (good bloodlines) and every Bengal midterm interim was cheered by the mob and then turned on.
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Post#104 » by trwi7 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:46 am

Epicurus wrote:NO, read carefully what I really wrote. I did not say youth was the problem. Many PRESEASON pundits said that it would prevent the Brewers from winning the division. This was said in response to someone here who said many said the Brewers would win the division, which was said in response to my stating that I find it humorous to scapegoat the manager when the team is doing better than expectations. You have been and still are offering irrlevancies to what was actually said. Again reading is fundamental.


Many DID say the Brewers would win the division.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/preview07 ... xpertpicks

http://www.sportprojections.com/mlb_bas ... tions.html

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=6050

Is that enough or do you need more?
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Post#105 » by Epicurus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:59 am

Again reading is fundamental. I didn't deny that many had said they would win. I said that many said they would not win the division. Really are you incapacitated?
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Post#106 » by schweig » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:05 am

JS: But a first-inning error and the Reds' ability to foul off a lot of pitches got Suppan's pitch count up early on.


Yeah **** that, Suppan throws 80 pitches way too early every single **** time out. He got out of the fifth this time, good for him. Piece of **** arm. I still can't take any loss too painfully until September 1, and I'm one of the last people to jump on a player for anything regarding his salary, but I guess he must be the exception to that rule. I'll still defend Sheets, Jenkins, Bobby Simmons, but **** you Suppan. It really pisses me off that we'll be paying you as long as Gadzuric. I've seen too many of your piece of **** starts in person this year.
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Post#107 » by trwi7 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:14 am

Epicurus wrote:I said that many said they would not win the division.


Gee thanks Captain Obvious. Other than the Yankees and Red Sox what team doesn't have many pundits saying they won't win the division?

Epicurus wrote:A .500 team simply getting to .500. I do enjoy the everjumpy Bucks/Brewer fans scapegoating Yost, despite the team performing beyond their preseason expectations.


I particularly enjoy this quote from you calling them a .500 team when they ARE better than that. Of course it's all on the players, managers have no effect on the game they're just there to be seen.
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Post#108 » by WEFFPIM » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:38 am

Epicurus wrote:Again reading is fundamental. I didn't deny that many had said they would win. I said that many said they would not win the division. Really are you incapacitated?


So point them out. Find where people said that they would finish under .500, which is what you claimed the preseason expectations to be. While many did not pick the Brewers to win the division, they did say that they were better than mediocre, which is what a .500 record would state.
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Post#109 » by Epicurus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:46 am

trwi7 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I particularly enjoy this quote from you calling them a .500 team when they ARE better than that. Of course it's all on the players, managers have no effect on the game they're just there to be seen.


The reference( the them) was to the Reds whom PP said I should be happy now that they are playing better with a new manager. Christ, you and the next guy just can't read.

And no, managers matter, but players matter much more. Besides, you have no idea (as I don't either) whether a manager is doing well or not. YOu have winning percentages and ungrounded assumptions about good managing in particular situations (of which you have far less information and experience than the manager).
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Post#110 » by Epicurus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:49 am

willeatfire4playoffsinmil wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



So point them out. Find where people said that they would finish under .500, which is what you claimed the preseason expectations to be. While many did not pick the Brewers to win the division, they did say that they were better than mediocre, which is what a .500 record would state.


Again as with the other guy, reading is fundamental. The .500 reference was to the Reds not the Brewers. You guys are really tiring with your misstatements all the time, on apparently several topics.
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Post#111 » by trwi7 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:55 am

The reference( the them) was to the Reds whom PP said I should be happy now that they are playing better with a new manager. Christ, you and the next guy just can't read.


Then make that clear. You say that and then you go on to talk about the Brewers and Bucks.

And no, managers matter, but players matter much more. Besides, you have no idea (as I don't either) whether a manager is doing well or not. YOu have winning percentages and ungrounded assumptions about good managing in particular situations (of which you have far less information and experience than the manager).


And the players have been performing. The platoon in LF has been performing. The infield other than 2nd base has been performing well above expectations, right field has been performing above expectations the only positions that have been underperforming on offense are CF and 2nd base.

The bullpen has performed to expectations. Cordero is doing fine, Turnbow is having a good comeback year and Villanueva was great until he started getting overworked by Yost. Oh that's right I can't say that because I don't know for sure. I mean who cares that he had worked the most relief innings in all of baseball at a young age Ned didn't say he was tired so obviously I don't know.

I have watched every game for this team since Yost has taken over. I've given him enough leeway I'm done with him.

But I'm done arguing with you about this because I could give a flying **** what you think.
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Post#112 » by Epicurus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:59 am

Read the actual sentences prior to ranting. That might help.

Players doing well, but team losing. Yes, we are done arguing, as I wouldn't know how to begin with such a bizarre thesis.
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Post#113 » by WEFFPIM » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:06 pm

Boy, that was fun. We found out that Ned is Epi's cousin
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Post#114 » by brewcityboii » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:45 pm

willeatfire4playoffsinmil wrote:Boy, that was fun. We found out that Ned is Epi's cousin

:nod:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Post#115 » by trwi7 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:47 pm

willeatfire4playoffsinmil wrote:Boy, that was fun. We found out that Ned is Epi's cousin


Bad coaching runs in the family I suppose.
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Post#116 » by Epicurus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:42 pm

trwi7 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Bad coaching runs in the family I suppose.


As illiteracy obviously runs in yours and willeat's.
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Post#117 » by MickeyDavis » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:11 pm

Just as I'm enjoying the quiet time on the Bucks board... 8)
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Post#118 » by WEFFPIM » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:42 pm

Epicurus wrote:Again as with the other guy, reading is fundamental. The .500 reference was to the Reds not the Brewers. You guys are really tiring with your misstatements all the time, on apparently several topics.


Epicurus wrote:A .500 team simply getting to .500. I do enjoy the everjumpy Bucks/Brewer fans scapegoating Yost, despite the team performing beyond their preseason expectations. Must be something in the water.


Looks like it was about the Brewers to me. I followed with:

Me wrote:Many picked the Brewers to win the Central


Which you replied with:

Epicurus wrote:And many didn't, particularly given the youth.


So...how is that about the Reds?
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Post#119 » by Epicurus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:08 pm

willeatfire4playoffsinmil wrote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Epicurus wrote:
Again as with the other guy, reading is fundamental. The .500 reference was to the Reds not the Brewers. You guys are really tiring with your misstatements all the time, on apparently several topics.


Epicurus wrote:
A .500 team simply getting to .500. I do enjoy the everjumpy Bucks/Brewer fans scapegoating Yost, despite the team performing beyond their preseason expectations. Must be something in the water.


Looks like it was about the Brewers to me. I followed with:

It looks like that only because you failed to include that to which I was responding (from PP) about the Reds. Thus my first sentence about a .500 team is the Reds, not the Brewers (as you mistakenly concluded by ignoring the context of my reply).
Me wrote:
Many picked the Brewers to win the Central


Which you replied with:

Epicurus wrote:
And many didn't, particularly given the youth.


So...how is that about the Reds?




So...how is that about the Reds?

My response to YOU was clearly about the Brewers. But that has nothing to do with my initial response to PP which was about the Reds in the first sentence. My response to PP and to you were about different subjects, which by following the conversation rather than choosing to join Twi in quibbling you would have none. And I would not be here typing the obvious.
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Post#120 » by Epicurus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:09 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Just as I'm enjoying the quiet time on the Bucks board... 8)


Which now is hapless and boring.

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