Former Miami Dolphins HC Brian Flores SUES the NFL FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION;owner offered HC $100k per loss 4 draft

[KembaWalker]

Playing NFL football isn't a qualification for coaching NFL football. Especially when we've already scientifically established that the sport gives you brain damage.

[DarthTeufel]

Can someone explain why teams have to interview someone who is black anyway?

The only argument I've seen is that 75% or so of the players are black, but it should be obvious that being a good coach and being a good player are two ENTIRELY different skillsets right?

by this logic why not institute this rule for players as well. Lets get some White defensive backs! hell lets get some asian, indian, hispanic representation ANYWHERE.

[Maf]

Leave Elway out of this nonsence. It's not about you, Brian. Seems like Elway does all his hirings or contract negotiations bit of drunk since SB L

[KrAzY3]

Can someone please pinpoint where/when the discrimination took place?

I’m not saying it didn’t. I just haven’t seen it.

Because the Giants chose a candidate before interviewing Flores?

That may violate the Rooney Rule but I don’t see how it is discrimination. Maybe they just actually really really liked the other coach.

Is there more I haven’t seen?

If they had already chosen the other guy and interviewed Flores only to meet the conditions of the Rooney rule, do you not see how that's an issue?

Flores has good reason to believe that he was only interviewed to check off a box and that he was never a serious candidate for the position. Now, if he'd been interviewed prior to the other guy, you could at least make an argument that the Giants actually took Flores seriously as a candidate.

What were they supposed to do?

Let's say there's a rule that says you have to consider a minority woman before you marry. This is a rule, it's mandated. You have to date a minority before you can marry. Alright?

Well, let's also say you are already in love and want to get married. You have to go through the motions then don't you? It doesn't make you a racist, it just means you're in love. In this case, a team had a head coach picked out because you know... they wanted that head coach! It doesn't make it racism, but the rule says it doesn't matter, you still have to go through the motions. So, they did.

[Warriors Analyst]

Can someone please pinpoint where/when the discrimination took place?

I’m not saying it didn’t. I just haven’t seen it.

Because the Giants chose a candidate before interviewing Flores?

That may violate the Rooney Rule but I don’t see how it is discrimination. Maybe they just actually really really liked the other coach.

Is there more I haven’t seen?

If they had already chosen the other guy and interviewed Flores only to meet the conditions of the Rooney rule, do you not see how that's an issue?

Flores has good reason to believe that he was only interviewed to check off a box and that he was never a serious candidate for the position. Now, if he'd been interviewed prior to the other guy, you could at least make an argument that the Giants actually took Flores seriously as a candidate.

What were they supposed to do?

Let's say there's a rule that says you have to consider a minority woman before you marry. This is a rule, it's mandated. You have to date a minority before you can marry. Alright?

Well, let's also say you are already in love and want to get married. You have to go through the motions then don't you? It doesn't make you a racist, it just means you're in love. In this case, a team had a head coach picked out because you know... they wanted that head coach! It doesn't make it racism, but the rule says it doesn't matter, you still have to go through the motions. So, they did.

Racism sucks but if Flores has done a better job as a head coach this past season he'd still have a job.

Flores says that the powers that be in the Broncos org came to the meeting late, disheveled, and clearly hungover. They never intended to give him a real shot. It's perfectly reasonable for him to conclude that things might have been different if he'd be given an interview prior to them making their decision.

[The Rebel]

The John Elway anecdote is going to kill this. I really have no idea why that was included.

Fill me in like craig david. I didn't see that part

How long have you been waiting for to use that line? lol.

Basically, Elway showed up hungover to interview Flores. Just seems trivial to the entire lawsuit. I'm no lawyer though

Given that Elway is well known around Denver as being a drunk, him being hungover means he was trying to sober up for the interview.

[KrAzY3]

If they had already chosen the other guy and interviewed Flores only to meet the conditions of the Rooney rule, do you not see how that's an issue?

Flores has good reason to believe that he was only interviewed to check off a box and that he was never a serious candidate for the position. Now, if he'd been interviewed prior to the other guy, you could at least make an argument that the Giants actually took Flores seriously as a candidate.

What were they supposed to do?

Let's say there's a rule that says you have to consider a minority woman before you marry. This is a rule, it's mandated. You have to date a minority before you can marry. Alright?

Well, let's also say you are already in love and want to get married. You have to go through the motions then don't you? It doesn't make you a racist, it just means you're in love. In this case, a team had a head coach picked out because you know... they wanted that head coach! It doesn't make it racism, but the rule says it doesn't matter, you still have to go through the motions. So, they did.

Racism sucks but if Flores has done a better job as a head coach this past season he'd still have a job.

Flores says that the powers that be in the Broncos org came to the meeting late, disheveled, and clearly hungover. They never intended to give him a real shot. It's perfectly reasonable for him to conclude that things might have been different if he'd be given an interview prior to them making their decision.

They'd have to have a time machine to pull that off.

Daboll has a strong resume, much stronger than Flores really. I'm not even sure how Flores got a head coaching job in the first place. He goes from linebackers coach to head coach? Dude is 40, never been a coordinator, has spent basically 10 years as a coach in the NFL And he's supposed to be a serious candidate? The fact that the Dolphins hired him when they wanted to lose says everything about how legitimate a candidate he is. He has a really weak resume.

So yeah obviously they wanted Daboll and they interviewed this guy just to satisfy a requirement. And? Have you looked at his resume? Have you looked at Daboll's? Daboll has been an offensive coordinator about as long as Flores has been a coach. Flores is a terrible candidate but he met a mandatory requirement. Who shows up to some mandatory work thing excited?

[xAIRNESSx]

Seems like he's salty about being fired and is going scorched Earth.

Don't really see how any of Flores' allegations involve race and the Giants actually did interview other minority candidates. Leslie Frazier and Patrick Graham.

[dhsilv2]

So essentially they brought him in to interview for a job they had no intention of hiring him for. Very bad look, but I imagine it would very tough to prove discrimination in court even with that text.

The bribing to lose thing seems like far and away the most damning here. I can't imagine the reaction if something like that were exposed in the NBA.

This is almost the norm in hiring when internal candidates are involved and even without, we always schedule the top people first...so often we make up our minds hiring at all levels WELL before the last person interviews.

[AbeVigodaLive]

What were they supposed to do?

Let's say there's a rule that says you have to consider a minority woman before you marry. This is a rule, it's mandated. You have to date a minority before you can marry. Alright?

Well, let's also say you are already in love and want to get married. You have to go through the motions then don't you? It doesn't make you a racist, it just means you're in love. In this case, a team had a head coach picked out because you know... they wanted that head coach! It doesn't make it racism, but the rule says it doesn't matter, you still have to go through the motions. So, they did.

Racism sucks but if Flores has done a better job as a head coach this past season he'd still have a job.

Flores says that the powers that be in the Broncos org came to the meeting late, disheveled, and clearly hungover. They never intended to give him a real shot. It's perfectly reasonable for him to conclude that things might have been different if he'd be given an interview prior to them making their decision.

They'd have to have a time machine to pull that off.

Daboll has a strong resume, much stronger than Flores really. I'm not even sure how Flores got a head coaching job in the first place. He goes from linebackers coach to head coach? Dude is 40, never been a coordinator, has spent basically 10 years as a coach in the NFL And he's supposed to be a serious candidate? The fact that the Dolphins hired him when they wanted to lose says everything about how legitimate a candidate he is. He has a really weak resume.

So yeah obviously they wanted Daboll and they interviewed this guy just to satisfy a requirement. And? Have you looked at his resume? Have you looked at Daboll's? Daboll has been an offensive coordinator about as long as Flores has been a coach. Flores is a terrible candidate but he met a mandatory requirement. Who shows up to some mandatory work thing excited?

Daboll has a bit more experience as a coordinator than Flores. But Flores does have an advantage in being an actual head coach who's won games. That's not nothing.

We can quibble about how Flores was a "terrible candidate" or he wasn't a "serious candidate" or how "weak his resume is" for the Giants gig... but check this out... Flores had 2 winning seasons in 3 years in Miami. The Dolphins had 1 winning season in the previous 10 years.

Not saying that he's a better hire than Daboll or even a good coach... but it seems odd for you to downplay it so much.

[The Rebel]

I'm not going to read though this thread because I am sure there are a lot of idiotic takes and I just don't have the patience to deal with that. The majority of this board just isn't knowledgeable and experienced enough to deal with anything race related.

I love the NFL, but it is about as corrupt and "good ole boys club" as it gets. We have seen it time and time and time again. (Bruce Allen, Jon Gruden, etc etc etc)

There is ONE current black head coach in the NFL right now.

Brian Flores and David Culley both got fired, even though they did very well considering the teams they coached/circumstances surrounding them.

Bills OC and Packers OC just got head coaching jobs. White dudes.
Chiefs OC and Buccaneers OC met in the Super Bowl last year. Both led amazing offenses. Neither one is a head coach right now. Black dudes.

Texans have interviewed Josh McCown for the past couple of years, and he's an ASSISTANT HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL COACH.

Eric Beinemy can hardly get an interview, even though he's led one of the best offenses in quite a while for years.

I know the NBA and the MLB has it's problems, but none are nearly in poor of shape as the NFL. It's a huge problem, and it's only getting worse.

If I remember correctly Beinemy has some legal issues in college and early in his career, including assaulting a woman, duis and traffic stuff, and assaulting a firefighter who was trying to put out a fire. In today's media that is not someone the NFL is going to want as a head coach.

Also to be fair the Packers OC got a job on the hopes he helps the Broncos get Rodgers.

Leftwich was offered the Jacksonville job.

[Pharmcat]

What were they supposed to do?

Let's say there's a rule that says you have to consider a minority woman before you marry. This is a rule, it's mandated. You have to date a minority before you can marry. Alright?

Well, let's also say you are already in love and want to get married. You have to go through the motions then don't you? It doesn't make you a racist, it just means you're in love. In this case, a team had a head coach picked out because you know... they wanted that head coach! It doesn't make it racism, but the rule says it doesn't matter, you still have to go through the motions. So, they did.

Racism sucks but if Flores has done a better job as a head coach this past season he'd still have a job.

Flores says that the powers that be in the Broncos org came to the meeting late, disheveled, and clearly hungover. They never intended to give him a real shot. It's perfectly reasonable for him to conclude that things might have been different if he'd be given an interview prior to them making their decision.

They'd have to have a time machine to pull that off.

Daboll has a strong resume, much stronger than Flores really. I'm not even sure how Flores got a head coaching job in the first place. He goes from linebackers coach to head coach? Dude is 40, never been a coordinator, has spent basically 10 years as a coach in the NFL And he's supposed to be a serious candidate? The fact that the Dolphins hired him when they wanted to lose says everything about how legitimate a candidate he is. He has a really weak resume.

So yeah obviously they wanted Daboll and they interviewed this guy just to satisfy a requirement. And? Have you looked at his resume? Have you looked at Daboll's? Daboll has been an offensive coordinator about as long as Flores has been a coach. Flores is a terrible candidate but he met a mandatory requirement. Who shows up to some mandatory work thing excited?

You do know that Flores was the one who put in butler in the Super Bowl against Seahawks and butler got the interception in the greatest defensive play in nfl history. Ballsy move to put in a undrafted player in such a situation but goes to show his skills

[KrAzY3]

Flores says that the powers that be in the Broncos org came to the meeting late, disheveled, and clearly hungover. They never intended to give him a real shot. It's perfectly reasonable for him to conclude that things might have been different if he'd be given an interview prior to them making their decision.

They'd have to have a time machine to pull that off.

Daboll has a strong resume, much stronger than Flores really. I'm not even sure how Flores got a head coaching job in the first place. He goes from linebackers coach to head coach? Dude is 40, never been a coordinator, has spent basically 10 years as a coach in the NFL And he's supposed to be a serious candidate? The fact that the Dolphins hired him when they wanted to lose says everything about how legitimate a candidate he is. He has a really weak resume.

So yeah obviously they wanted Daboll and they interviewed this guy just to satisfy a requirement. And? Have you looked at his resume? Have you looked at Daboll's? Daboll has been an offensive coordinator about as long as Flores has been a coach. Flores is a terrible candidate but he met a mandatory requirement. Who shows up to some mandatory work thing excited?

Daboll has a bit more experience as a coordinator than Flores. But Flores does have an advantage in being an actual head coach. That's not nothing.

We can quibble about how Flores was a "terrible candidate" or he wasn't a "serious candidate" or how "weak his resume is" for the Giants gig... but check this out... Flores had 2 winning seasons in 3 years in Miami. The Dolphins had 1 winning season in the previous 10 years.

Not saying that he's a better hire than Daboll or even a good coach... but it seems odd for you to downplay it so much.

Well to be honest I'm more familiar with Daboll since I'm an Alabama fan. He helped Alabama win a championship as the offensive coordinator there.

You said something though, you said: "Daboll has a bit more experience as a coordinator than Flores". Flores has never been a coordinator, ever, and was hired from linebacker coach to head coach. That was a massive reach, an enormous one and Flores actually revealed why that occurred. He was hired to lose games, he says that. So the Dolphins wanted to lose some games, they hired a guy unqualified for the job and that was that. I will admit that he overachieved relative to being completely unqualified for the job, but his resume is still very weak.

Just so everyone knows usually you go from assistant, to coordinator, to head coach. It's extremely rare to make the leap from assistant to head coach without being a coordinator. The reality here is a guy who was hired for a position he was not qualified for, in order to lose games, is upset he's not being taken seriously. Now, might he in fact turn out to be a great head coach? Who knows, he's so busy burning bridges right now we might never find out.

[ocelot17]

The Texans hired Jack Easterby, a youth pastor with no football background to be executive Vice President of football operations. He has burned the team to the ground.

They’re about to hire Josh Mccown to be the next Texans head coach. He has zero coaching experience.

It’s kind of a slap in the face of black coach/executive candidates, that a white person with no experience can basically cut the line in front of them.

[celtics543]

The Texans hired Jack Easterby, a youth pastor with no football background to be executive Vice President of football operations. He has burned the team to the ground.

They’re about to hire Josh Mccown to be the next Texans head coach. He has zero coaching experience.

It’s kind of a slap in the face of black coach/executive candidates, that a white person with no experience can basically cut the line in front of them.

Is it about being white though or being a former QB? Point guards in the NBA do it all the time. How did Chauncey Billups, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Doc Rivers, or Ty Lue earn their stripes to be a head coach? When Nash got hired with no experience people were up in arms but when Billups and Kidd were hired no one cared about skin color.

I'm not saying there isn't a racial aspect to the hiring process in all fields but the NFL is concerned with two things: Winning games and making money, and not necessarily in that order. GM's are hiring the guy they think can win the most games for them. It's why Ray Rice never got re-signed but Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt still have jobs. Rice couldn't help them win anymore.

[AbeVigodaLive]

They'd have to have a time machine to pull that off.

Daboll has a strong resume, much stronger than Flores really. I'm not even sure how Flores got a head coaching job in the first place. He goes from linebackers coach to head coach? Dude is 40, never been a coordinator, has spent basically 10 years as a coach in the NFL And he's supposed to be a serious candidate? The fact that the Dolphins hired him when they wanted to lose says everything about how legitimate a candidate he is. He has a really weak resume.

So yeah obviously they wanted Daboll and they interviewed this guy just to satisfy a requirement. And? Have you looked at his resume? Have you looked at Daboll's? Daboll has been an offensive coordinator about as long as Flores has been a coach. Flores is a terrible candidate but he met a mandatory requirement. Who shows up to some mandatory work thing excited?

Daboll has a bit more experience as a coordinator than Flores. But Flores does have an advantage in being an actual head coach. That's not nothing.

We can quibble about how Flores was a "terrible candidate" or he wasn't a "serious candidate" or how "weak his resume is" for the Giants gig... but check this out... Flores had 2 winning seasons in 3 years in Miami. The Dolphins had 1 winning season in the previous 10 years.

Not saying that he's a better hire than Daboll or even a good coach... but it seems odd for you to downplay it so much.

Well to be honest I'm more familiar with Daboll since I'm an Alabama fan. He helped Alabama win a championship as the offensive coordinator there.

You said something though, you said: "Daboll has a bit more experience as a coordinator than Flores". Flores has never been a coordinator, ever, and was hired from linebacker coach to head coach. That was a massive reach, an enormous one and Flores actually revealed why that occurred. He was hired to lose games, he says that. So the Dolphins wanted to lose some games, they hired a guy unqualified for the job and that was that. I will admit that he overachieved relative to being completely unqualified for the job, but his resume is still very weak.

Just so everyone knows usually you go from assistant, to coordinator, to head coach. It's extremely rare to make the leap from assistant to head coach without being a coordinator. The reality here is a guy who was hired for a position he was not qualified for, in order to lose games, is upset he's not being taken seriously. Now, might he in fact turn out to be a great head coach? Who knows, he's so busy burning bridges right now we might never find out.

As for job titles... it brings up a good question. Is it more important to have the title of "coordinator"... or be the one to actually call the plays? While Flores still had a brief history as a coordinator, apparently he was calling the plays for a team that won the Super Bowl. Again, that's not nothing.


[Note: Again, not saying Flores > Daboll. I have no idea. I'm just trying to follow your reasoning. Whether you think Flores was an unjustified hire or not for the Dolphins, we can't just ignore that he actually proved to be decent at the gig he was interviewing for with the Giants.]

[MoneyTalks41890]

I still really don’t understand how a board dedicated to talking about a sports league that is majority black is so deaf to issues of race.

[BrianInPhilly]

I read through the ESPN article & I actually don't even see where Flores is explicitly accusing the NFL or teams of racism or racial discrimination. It seems the main gripe if they interviewed him just to fulfill the rule to interview a minority candidate (which objectively is not "racism") + he was incentivized to tank too, which obviously has nothing to do with racism. That appears to be the most serious thing he's suing for. It seems the media outlets are just putting racism in the headline when even from Flores's point of view he doesn't explicitly say he's suing because of racism.

Or can someone spell it out for me what he's specifically pointing out is the racial discrimination part?

[KrAzY3]

Daboll has a bit more experience as a coordinator than Flores. But Flores does have an advantage in being an actual head coach. That's not nothing.

We can quibble about how Flores was a "terrible candidate" or he wasn't a "serious candidate" or how "weak his resume is" for the Giants gig... but check this out... Flores had 2 winning seasons in 3 years in Miami. The Dolphins had 1 winning season in the previous 10 years.

Not saying that he's a better hire than Daboll or even a good coach... but it seems odd for you to downplay it so much.

Well to be honest I'm more familiar with Daboll since I'm an Alabama fan. He helped Alabama win a championship as the offensive coordinator there.

You said something though, you said: "Daboll has a bit more experience as a coordinator than Flores". Flores has never been a coordinator, ever, and was hired from linebacker coach to head coach. That was a massive reach, an enormous one and Flores actually revealed why that occurred. He was hired to lose games, he says that. So the Dolphins wanted to lose some games, they hired a guy unqualified for the job and that was that. I will admit that he overachieved relative to being completely unqualified for the job, but his resume is still very weak.

Just so everyone knows usually you go from assistant, to coordinator, to head coach. It's extremely rare to make the leap from assistant to head coach without being a coordinator. The reality here is a guy who was hired for a position he was not qualified for, in order to lose games, is upset he's not being taken seriously. Now, might he in fact turn out to be a great head coach? Who knows, he's so busy burning bridges right now we might never find out.

As for job titles... it brings up a good question. Is it more important to have the title of "coordinator"... or be the one to actually call the plays? While Flores still had a brief history as a coordinator, apparently he was calling the plays for a team that won the Super Bowl. Again, that's not nothing.


[Note: Again, not saying Flores > Daboll. I have no idea. I'm just trying to follow your reasoning. Whether you think Flores was an unjustified hire or not for the Dolphins, we can't just ignore that he actually proved to be decent at the gig he was interviewing for with the Giants.]

I'm saying Daboll has a much better resume. 8 years as a coordinator (coached under arguably the two greatest football coaches of all time), success with the Bills, championship at Alabama, plus he has a similar pedigree to Flores with the Patriots. Being mad because the team wanted Daboll just doesn't make sense to me.

It sounds like Flores real gripe is with the Dolphins. They set him up for failure, he left there with a 24-25 record and that didn't do him any favors. There's also the Tua situation which is a whole other can of worms. The thing is, I'm not defending the Dolphins handling of this at all. I'm simply saying that Daboll is a really solid candidate and blaming a team for wanting to hire Daboll doesn't really make sense.

To go one step further, when Alabama was considering Mike Shula or Sylvester Croom I felt Croom was the most deserving candidate. He had the better resume and Shula was getting the job because of who his father was. As it turns out neither seemed to be very good as head coaches, but my position has always been you try to get the guy with the best resume.

[stillgotgame]

Can someone explain why teams have to interview someone who is black anyway?

The only argument I've seen is that 75% or so of the players are black, but it should be obvious that being a good coach and being a good player are two ENTIRELY different skillsets right?

by this logic why not institute this rule for players as well. Lets get some White defensive backs! hell lets get some asian, indian, hispanic representation ANYWHERE.

There should be an Al Campanis award on this board. Congrats, you’re a winner.

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