Former Miami Dolphins HC Brian Flores SUES the NFL FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION;owner offered HC $100k per loss 4 draft

[KingDavid]

The Texans are the worst run team in the NFL where a pastor has the ear of the owner. They’re not a professional organization and the way they’re run doesn’t reflect how the other teams are run. They’re like King Tommen who has the High Sparrow in charge.

The Bears haven’t been the best when it comes to football operations, but the Bears just hired a black GM who hired a white coach. Did racism play a favor in hiring the white coach?

It’s difficult to say, and the best coach the Bears have had in my lifetime is Lovie, and I disagreed with firing him but I don’t think bringing him back now is the right now.

When was the last time we had a black gm and black coach pairing? I’d have to look that up. But it seems like black people in authority position don’t help other blacks out in the nfl. Look at tomlin and how little diversity he had on his coordinators. I wonder if they feel like they will get blowback so they don’t do it, but is something else to consider.

The Dolphins did. Brian Flores was hired by Chris Grier.

Ironically, Flores was fired most likely over a power struggle with Grier. Flowers wanted more power. The owner kept the GM and fired Flores.

There's a whole other wrinkle that might be involved if Flores was offered to throw games by the owner to draft Burrow. His refusal to do that and his refusal to tamper with Brady could have led to the owner being slighted against all of Flores' decisions thereafter and why there's so much smoke about the relationships between the staff, players, and front office here. Flores got in a garbage situation with Stephen Ross for trying to do the right thing; to win games as contracted to do so, to manage players and staff, to not tamper and break rules to get the Phins penalized...but Ross wanted things done his way. So if Flores did all that Ross asked; tank to get Burrow - fire Flores once Burrow is drafted because Flores' record as a coach is trash from tanking. Tamper with Brady - Fire Flores for breaking NFL rules and costing the Dolphins draft picks. Horrific situation all around.

We couldn't get Burrow.

Grier wanted Tua.
Flores wanted Justin Herbert.

Did the owner side with Grier to spite Flores? Or did he put his faith in his GM? Because Herbert was the obvious pick and not the guy with the **** up hip. Now based on these allegations against Ross, it makes me wonder.

[gmoney411]

This isn’t true anymore. Again 25 out of the 32 head coaches last year never played in the NFL. The NFL has definitely made a clear change to looking to hire guys that have been coaches since college.

But that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more African American head coaches. The next question would be why aren't there more black college head coaches? You can't tell me the people who predominantly play the game are not interested in coaching it.

I'm sure they are. But the pool of persons from which coaches are selected is not limited to just the players that play at the collegiate or professional level, its everyone who wants to coach football. Belichick played at Wesleyan and then immediately took a $25 per week assistant job with the Baltimore Colts when he graduated. Maybe there's some discussion to be had about young, aspiring white coaches more often having the financial means to take chances on low-paying assistant coaching jobs like that to get their foot in the door somewhere. Maybe actually playing in the league puts you at a disadvantage because you get your first job coaching/working for a team later in life than someone set out on that career path earlier because they weren't good enough to pay in college or the pros. Both coaches in the Super Bowl this year, McVay and Zac Taylor, played in college but never made it to the league, so they got their assistant jobs while they were still in their 20s. It's certainly a confluence of factors, and sure maybe in some instances someone isn't hired because they're black, but it makes no rational sense to draw the line between the percentage of black players and percentage of black coaches and then just chalk it up racism, and there's no real evidence to back that up either.

Systemic racism and racism aren't the same thing. Hiring a white coach because you relate to him better isn't the same as not hiring a black coach because you don't like black people.

[BrianInPhilly]

Fair enough.

A lot of people probably agree.

So what's the solution?

I haven't studied the issue enough honestly so I'm not the most informed ... But thinking about it - and again I'm acknowledging I'm ignorant, I'd say these things:

- More analysis/studies into literally "what makes a good NFL coach". This could be an investigative thing from analyzing successful coaches from a personal, game management, football knowledge, psychology standpoint, interviewing past coaches, etc. ... On the surface this wouldn't be related to race, but basically I think this research could lead to owners, higher ups actually having a better idea on what they're actually looking for in a coach. From this, they would be less likely to just pick someone because of "networking" or for silly reasons that have nothing to do with football. Or in other words, they would more likely pick the "best candidate" and from this of course the percentage of non-Black coaches won't be as high as it is right now ... Since networking/personal biases would play less a factor
- Creating better lines of communication between leagues ... I'm talking small ranked high school to big time high school to small time college to division 1 college to NFL assistants to NFL .... Perhaps some system or programs that go across the leagues to better identify successful talent.

So in other words I think the main thing is just precisely figuring out what the "best candidate" actually is & this would naturally assist to have a more even playing field. Again, just brainstorming though. Sure there's other better ideas.

Yeah. I have no ideas of my own, well above my paygrade, but I appreciate you offering up something.

How much do you think PR or public perception matters when new coaches are hired?

PR matters. The question is does it matter more than it "should"? I'd say yes. Meaning the best candidate for the job is often NOT who people think the best candidate is.

I would say "player perception" matters 1000x more than "public perception" though. That's why the "best candidate for the job" should be partly influenced/dictated by who the players would more likely "go to war with" so-to-speak or want as the coach. Because a head coach's job in my opinion is mainly about handling player's personalities/egos/ sacrifice for the team more so than anything.

[KingDavid]

I'm still not understanding this. So if he would have gotten the Giants job - he wouldn't have filed the lawsuit and exposed Ross? Or if he didn't get any of the other 3 jobs he interviewed for?

And now all of a sudden he's playing the victim? Come on...

Yes, I think if the Giants were an equal opportunity employer instead of conducting token interviews for minorities he would not have sued

The Giants had 6 coaches lined up for interviews

3 white coaches
3 black coaches

Leslie Fraizer (Black) and Brain Daboll (White) were the two that got multiple interviews.

So ya they didn’t need to interview Flores for him to be a token minority to pass the Rooney Rule.

Maybe just maybe they really liked Daboll from his interview (with he had prior to their scheduled one with Flores).

In 2020, the Rooney Rule changed to two external minority candidates. So if I understand the situation correctly; One of the three minority candidates is internal. Gave Daboll the position before they interviewed the second external minority candidate (Flores). Lawsuit.

[TGW]

I've met Brian Flores before. My best friend (and best man at my wedding) played football with Brian at Boston College. I can say without a doubt that he wouldn't make this type of charge unless there was smoking gun evidence. Just my 2 cents.

[TimeisIllmatic]

The thing I had the biggest issue with was Flores interviewing for the DEN job and DEN front office showing up super late and apparently very hungover. That is a huge disrespect to Flores and shows that DEN didn't care at all to get to know him or see if he was a candidate they would want to hire.

[ForeverTFC]

Also, I think it's important for folks to consider the context that Flores is a very good coach and he definitely would have had another job in this league as a HC. We're not talking about an underachieving person here. He may have sued himself out of the NFL by doing this. That in itself should lend some credibility to his position.

[theoilslick]

This isn’t true anymore. Again 25 out of the 32 head coaches last year never played in the NFL. The NFL has definitely made a clear change to looking to hire guys that have been coaches since college.

But that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more African American head coaches. The next question would be why aren't there more black college head coaches? You can't tell me the people who predominantly play the game are not interested in coaching it.

I'm sure they are. But the pool of persons from which coaches are selected is not limited to just the players that play at the collegiate or professional level, its everyone who wants to coach football. Belichick played at Wesleyan and then immediately took a $25 per week assistant job with the Baltimore Colts when he graduated. Maybe there's some discussion to be had about young, aspiring white coaches more often having the financial means to take chances on low-paying assistant coaching jobs like that to get their foot in the door somewhere. Maybe actually playing in the league puts you at a disadvantage because you get your first job coaching/working for a team later in life than someone set out on that career path earlier because they weren't good enough to pay in college or the pros. Both coaches in the Super Bowl this year, McVay and Zac Taylor, played in college but never made it to the league, so they got their assistant jobs while they were still in their 20s. It's certainly a confluence of factors, and sure maybe in some instances someone isn't hired because they're black, but it makes no rational sense to draw the line between the percentage of black players and percentage of black coaches and then just chalk it up racism, and there's no real evidence to back that up either.

That reminded me of another former coach who also started early with his merits…

[Jkam31]

Is there people out there that actually believe the NFL is NOT racist? People would regularly and openly say "you can't win with a black QB" 10 years ago.

I haven't read enough to comment on the merits of this specific case, so I will hold off there.

Stop making **** up man

[Dave DaButcher]

Read on Twitter

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[azcatz11]

Also, I think it's important for folks to consider the context that Flores is a very good coach and he definitely would have had another job in this league as a HC. We're not talking about an underachieving person here. He may have sued himself out of the NFL by doing this. That in itself should lend some credibility to his position.

He's an old school HC. Teams these days want offensive play callers as HC. That may revert back to the type of coach Flores is (more so CEO type IE Mike Tomlin) but the league has been trending away from the Flores type for a few years now...

[Jkam31]

https://youtu.be/DKoL3ArIO0c

Man this plantation must be nice he gets paid millions and doesn’t wanna leave

[RRyder823]

Is there people out there that actually believe the NFL is NOT racist? People would regularly and openly say "you can't win with a black QB" 10 years ago.

I haven't read enough to comment on the merits of this specific case, so I will hold off there.

10 years ago?... You gonna act like no one here is old enough to remember that wasn't said "regularly and openly" in 2012?

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

[AbeVigodaLive]

Let the white guys have the coaching?

Didn't Jimmy the Greek predict that's the only thing left for them back in 1988 on the CBS pregame show?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1988/01/17/jimmy-the-greek-fired-by-cbs-for-his-remarks/27536e46-3031-40c2-bb2b-f912ec518f80/

[jc23]

https://youtu.be/DKoL3ArIO0c

Man this plantation must be nice he gets paid millions and doesn’t wanna leave

yeah thats just a stupid comment. i also think people jump over discrimination to get to racist a bit too often. imo when you label someone or a group racist there must be hate involved.

But its very obvious that a league that is 70% black should probably have more former black players as coaches. I feel that experience matters and what better experience then actually playing in the league and being around the sport your entire life.

Maybe there needs to be a free agent period for head coaches i.e. no interviews until a certain date so teams dont feel the need to sign "their guy" before others get a chance at an interview.

[BrianInPhilly]

Though it's an issue that the best candidates for head coaches often do not become head coach ... This is a problem in every sector of society. There's a certain personality type mainly that is able to network much better & thus look like more "appealing" candidates based off nothing that has to do with the job responsibilities. It's often tough to change these hiring decisions though since the people that got the jobs where they have the power to hire people often are those outgoing/networking type of people.

Just pointing this out because some of the outcry I've seen has been along the lines of "Flores' resume is so good, why can't he get hired?". It's pretty apparent that experiences/resume aren't the #1 factor in hiring anybody. I wish they were ( for my sake as more of an introverted person who hates networking ... was told recently I didn't "network" enough by my boss's boss) but it's the way the world works right now. I find this point argument I've seen undersells the point on racial discrimination because it has little to do with race, so people should stop using it and actually just point out the specifics of the racial discrimination, if there are specifics which honestly I find Flores' articulation of the actual discrimination surprisingly pretty vague.

[JDR720]

The thing with being a coach, as a former player, is the jobs are completely different.

Most coaches start as an assistant, and have to work their way up the ladder. Bill Belichick was a special teams assistant in the 70's, when he started coaching. Most HC's have been involved in coaching in some way shape or form most of their lives. Players do not have that experience. Playing and coaching are not the same skillset and have little if any overlap.

Most coaches, similar to all players, are specialists. You have a position coach. You have assistants. You have offensive/defensive coordinators. The HC has to tie it all together and manage everything. Being a HC in the NFL generally requires a lot of previous coaching experience. Most players aren't going to go through those steps or have developed those management skills.

So, you may have a WR retire and become a WR coach. But the odds that guy expands much beyond that is fairly unlikely. What about being an offensive coordinator? He'd have to learn thing he has no experience with as a player. He'd have to learn about RB's. OL. The QB. What he if wanted to become a HC? He'd have to learn about defense and special teams too. He, as a former WR, has no idea about how to manage a defense.

People who equate 70% of the players being black and assuming the coaching staffs should reflect that don't realize any of this. Coaching in the NFL is very different than coaching in other sports. We've seen several players in the NBA retire and immediately become a HC. Chauncy, Kidd, Nash etc. That'll never happen in the NFL. The learning curve and progression required makes it so.

[dribble1614]

who cares. there's no racism. this is just an argument made by the looney progressives to justify identity politics. why aren't there more than a few random white rb's or wr's in the league? outside of kupp and mccaffrey you can barely name any white wr or rb's. they're all black. anybody complaining?

yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

Strike for political baiting.
-js21

[Pointgod]

Well no **** the NFL had a race problem when it comes to hiring coaches. Is Mike Tomlin the only black head coach left? I haven’t watched the NFL for years, but there’s no way Brian Flores is willing to torpedo his career if he doesn’t have some solid proof beyond what’s been released publicly. I’m old enough to remember when Gruden’s racists emails came out and a lot of people tried to excuse it, only for more to come out that left zero doubt.

[lobosloboslobos]

This isn’t true anymore. Again 25 out of the 32 head coaches last year never played in the NFL. The NFL has definitely made a clear change to looking to hire guys that have been coaches since college.

But that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more African American head coaches. The next question would be why aren't there more black college head coaches? You can't tell me the people who predominantly play the game are not interested in coaching it.

I'm sure they are. But the pool of persons from which coaches are selected is not limited to just the players that play at the collegiate or professional level, its everyone who wants to coach football. Belichick played at Wesleyan and then immediately took a $25 per week assistant job with the Baltimore Colts when he graduated. Maybe there's some discussion to be had about young, aspiring white coaches more often having the financial means to take chances on low-paying assistant coaching jobs like that to get their foot in the door somewhere. Maybe actually playing in the league puts you at a disadvantage because you get your first job coaching/working for a team later in life than someone set out on that career path earlier because they weren't good enough to pay in college or the pros. Both coaches in the Super Bowl this year, McVay and Zac Taylor, played in college but never made it to the league, so they got their assistant jobs while they were still in their 20s. It's certainly a confluence of factors, and sure maybe in some instances someone isn't hired because they're black, but it makes no rational sense to draw the line between the percentage of black players and percentage of black coaches and then just chalk it up racism, and there's no real evidence to back that up either.

lots of words to say nothing.

you think maybe black guys aren't taking 'low-paying assistant coaching jobs' for NFL teams 'to get their foot in the door somewhere' because they don't pay enough? that's really what you think? think about it.

you also think that because "Maybe actually playing in the league puts you at a disadvantage because you get your first job coaching/working for a team later in life than someone set out on that career path earlier because they weren't good enough to pay in college or the pros." that in some universe this means that it is logical that white guys who didn't make it to the NFL should get all the head-coach-track junior jobs instead of the much larger number of black guys who have spent their lives in football but weren't good enough to make it to the pros? you think there is a logic there that holds up? really?

good god. just face the obvious inescapable fact. NFL ownership and senior management is racist af and no doubt so is college football administration. it has been forever and it hasn't changed. 'no evidence' lol.