Former Miami Dolphins HC Brian Flores SUES the NFL FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION;owner offered HC $100k per loss 4 draft

[FrodoFraggins]

so billionaire owners, desperate to win, use meritocracy when it comes to choosing players, but suddenly that goes out the window when choosing coaches? okay

So why does the NFL have an issue hiring black head coaches then?

[NotaHypeJob]

The thing with being a coach, as a former player, is the jobs are completely different.

Most coaches start as an assistant, and have to work their way up the ladder. Bill Belichick was a special teams assistant in the 70's, when he started coaching. Most HC's have been involved in coaching in some way shape or form most of their lives. Players do not have that experience. Playing and coaching are not the same skillset and have little if any overlap.

Most coaches, similar to all players, are specialists. You have a position coach. You have assistants. You have offensive/defensive coordinators. The HC has to tie it all together and manage everything. Being a HC in the NFL generally requires a lot of previous coaching experience. Most players aren't going to go through those steps or have developed those management skills.

So, you may have a WR retire and become a WR coach. But the odds that guy expands much beyond that is fairly unlikely. What about being an offensive coordinator? He'd have to learn thing he has no experience with as a player. He'd have to learn about RB's. OL. The QB. What he if wanted to become a HC? He'd have to learn about defense and special teams too. He, as a former WR, has no idea about how to manage a defense.

People who equate 70% of the players being black and assuming the coaching staffs should reflect that don't realize any of this. Coaching in the NFL is very different than coaching in other sports. We've seen several players in the NBA retire and immediately become a HC. Chauncy, Kidd, Nash etc. That'll never happen in the NFL. The learning curve and progression required makes it so.

But these NFL outsiders getting jobs have been disproportionately one race. What's the reasoning behind that? 90% of the current head coaches in the NFL are white which again doesn't make sense when compared to the football player base or the current demographics of the USA.
The NFL was founded in 1920.
The first African American head coach was not hired until 1989. In the 30 years since then the number of black coaches hired is under 25
Six NFL franchises have never hired a black coach full time.

Sorry, but the math ain't mathing

[heatwillbeback]

The thing with being a coach, as a former player, is the jobs are completely different.

Most coaches start as an assistant, and have to work their way up the ladder. Bill Belichick was a special teams assistant in the 70's, when he started coaching. Most HC's have been involved in coaching in some way shape or form most of their lives. Players do not have that experience. Playing and coaching are not the same skillset and have little if any overlap.

Most coaches, similar to all players, are specialists. You have a position coach. You have assistants. You have offensive/defensive coordinators. The HC has to tie it all together and manage everything. Being a HC in the NFL generally requires a lot of previous coaching experience. Most players aren't going to go through those steps or have developed those management skills.

So, you may have a WR retire and become a WR coach. But the odds that guy expands much beyond that is fairly unlikely. What about being an offensive coordinator? He'd have to learn thing he has no experience with as a player. He'd have to learn about RB's. OL. The QB. What he if wanted to become a HC? He'd have to learn about defense and special teams too. He, as a former WR, has no idea about how to manage a defense.

People who equate 70% of the players being black and assuming the coaching staffs should reflect that don't realize any of this. Coaching in the NFL is very different than coaching in other sports. We've seen several players in the NBA retire and immediately become a HC. Chauncy, Kidd, Nash etc. That'll never happen in the NFL. The learning curve and progression required makes it so.

I think that will happen this week with McCown, though he was out a year.

I agree with the rest of the post though. Coaching is a different profession than playing.

[TGW]

Semi-off topic, but today I received an email from my employers financial broker on voting for board members for the board of shareholders. It was 8 questions, and 7 of them involved voting for a member, with each question providing a recommendation from the current board on how to vote. Questions 1 thru 7 all had of a recommendation of yes. The last question, Question 8, was whether the board should do a financial audit to ensure fair pay for minority executives. It was then followed by a recommendation by the board: a big fat no.

I abstained on the other questions and voted yes for question 8.

This is not an NFL problem; it’s a USA problem.

[heatwillbeback]

As for his Flores’ main point, yes I think there is racism in hiring practices. One current coach is all that needs to be said.

As a Dolphins fan though, I am salty. The issues with the 100k and tampering are just because he wanted to embarrass the Dolphins and have nothing (or very little) to do with the overall point of the case. I also think he deserved to be fired from the Dolphins as you can’t lose 7 games in a row your third year and expect some wins at the end will save you.

I also think that because he is a former Dolphins coach and made these other allegations against the Dolphins, the Dolphins are the main team being discussed. Which I think is unfair since we hired Flores, have a minority GM, a minority assistant GM and a minority director of player personnel. Dolphins should not be front and center in a case involving racism in hiring practices. Just my two cents.

[mademan]

As for his Flores’ main point, yes I think there is racism in hiring practices. One current coach is all that needs to be said.

As a Dolphins fan though, I am salty. The issues with the 100k and tampering are just because he wanted to embarrass the Dolphins and have nothing (or very little) to do with the overall point of the case. I also think he deserved to be fired from the Dolphins as you can’t lose 7 games in a row your third year and expect some wins at the end will save you.

I also think that because he is a former Dolphins coach and made these other allegations against the Dolphins, the Dolphins are the main team being discussed. Which I think is unfair since we hired Flores, have a minority GM, a minority assistant GM and a minority director of player personnel. Dolphins should not be front and center in a case involving racism in hiring practices. Just my two cents.

Dolphins went 8-4 with Tua playing. How many teams succeed with their QB sidelined? Blaming him for giving the Dolphins their 2 of their 3 winning seasons in the past 10 years is crazy. By almost any measure, Flores time in Miami has been a success, even with the GM going with Tua over Flores' choice of Herbert.

Which isnt to say Flores is a perfect coach, but he's succeeded in his time in Miami and it was weird to see him be a scapegoat for their meagre success (?).

[BostonCouchGM]

so billionaire owners, desperate to win, use meritocracy when it comes to choosing players, but suddenly that goes out the window when choosing coaches? okay

So why does the NFL have an issue hiring black head coaches then?

If the pool of black coaching candidates are coming from former players, maybe their skill sets don't align with being a head coach? Running 4.4 with great lateral quickness has nothing to do with being a leader, having good communication skills and being smart. Maybe black coaches at the high school and collegiate level are more defensive orientated which isn't in vogue right now? So as they rise in the ranks, they eventually reach a point where the number of teams willing to hire a defensive HC is limited? Maybe they aren't interviewing well when they get these chance? Maybe they have failed to network well during their stops along the way? Maybe, and I think this is the big one, all these white guys who didn't play, but are super smart, willing and driven, were afforded the ability to work for peanuts while they paid their dues because they had more support than black men who might otherwise be interested in pursuing coaching? You hear all the time about these guys working 60 hour weeks, making nothing, paying their dues for years until they finally get a break. Maybe that's a much more difficult proposition for black men? Maybe black, former players, used to the good life, aren't willing to grind as a low level coach and work their way up after retirement. Maybe they're more interested in getting media jobs instead? Look at Deion. He could have gone right into coaching and by now would certainly have been given an opportunity had he had some success but for a decade he worked in the media instead. Reich had to do internships for a couple years, became an assistant, then QB coach, then WR coach, then OC and the finally HC after paying dues for 10 years. Rivera went into broadcasting for a few years. But then he got into coaching becoming first an LB coach for several years, then DC and then HC...12 years after starting his coaching career. Whereas Deion decided to be an NFL analyst for a decade until he became a HS coach and finally a college HC, 8 years after getting into coaching. If he had embraced coaching earlier, undoubtedly he would have already been a HC or a candidate by now.

I'm not sure there even IS an issue. Hire who you believe is the best candidate. If that happens to be a black guy then great. All I'm positive about is, if an owner felt that a a black man was the best candidate, they'd hire him. Especially in light of the draft pick compensation attached to it. Who are these incredible black HC candidates people think should be getting hired? Bieniemy with his past legal issues, reportedly awful in interviews and concerns he doesn't really call the plays? Leftwich (who has been offered a job btw) who has never been a HC at any level and is possibly a product of Tom Brady? Todd Bowles who got cooked in the playoffs? Leslie Frazier who got cooked in the playoffs? Hue Jackson? Brian Flores who failed to get the Dolphins into the playoffs, has a crappy personality and poor leadership and communication skills? Patrick Graham who has been awful at every stop? And who are these hot black college coaches who want to go to the NFL that aren't getting hired? Who are these great young offensive minded black coordinators that being passed on? Who are these black coaches, that when given the opportunity to be head coaches, beyond a few, that have lit the world on fire and are helping to change the supposed narrative? It'd be one thing if there was a glut of really intriguing candidates and they were getting passed over but that's not the case.

[heatwillbeback]

As for his Flores’ main point, yes I think there is racism in hiring practices. One current coach is all that needs to be said.

As a Dolphins fan though, I am salty. The issues with the 100k and tampering are just because he wanted to embarrass the Dolphins and have nothing (or very little) to do with the overall point of the case. I also think he deserved to be fired from the Dolphins as you can’t lose 7 games in a row your third year and expect some wins at the end will save you.

I also think that because he is a former Dolphins coach and made these other allegations against the Dolphins, the Dolphins are the main team being discussed. Which I think is unfair since we hired Flores, have a minority GM, a minority assistant GM and a minority director of player personnel. Dolphins should not be front and center in a case involving racism in hiring practices. Just my two cents.

Dolphins went 8-4 with Tua playing. How many teams succeed with their QB sidelined? Blaming him for giving the Dolphins their 2 of their 3 winning seasons in the past 10 years is crazy. By almost any measure, Flores time in Miami has been a success, even with the GM going with Tua over Flores' choice of Herbert.

Which isnt to say Flores is a perfect coach, but he's succeeded in his time in Miami and it was weird to see him be a scapegoat for their meagre success (?).

We started the year 1-7. That was unacceptable.

Going further down the rabbit hole I also think he made some mistakes with his staff, especially the laughable dual OC thing.

I know that’s not the point of this thread, but last year was supposed to be the year to get back to the playoffs.
I didn’t hate Flores and would not been fine with no decision (fans weren’t clamoring for him to be fired) but the decision to fire him also didn’t surprise me as somebody following the team.

On top of the losses he denigrated Tua so much with the Watson stuff. Which if you believe the rumors, he was openly pushing for.

Again, no intention to derail here. Just salty with some of the stuff being said about the Dolphins because the team has a good history in hiring minority candidates. I fully believe the 100k thing, but again that was in the suit just to take shots at Miami.

[CraftylikeaFox]

With everything going on involving african american head coaches right now like qualified guys like Bieniemy and Leftwich not getting offers, Cully being fired despite overachieving in almost every way possibly, and unconventional and non-experienced white coaches being hired, it's funny that this lawsuit comes from the one area that seems the most justified. Flores, by all accounts, was fired for good reasons.

[mademan]

As for his Flores’ main point, yes I think there is racism in hiring practices. One current coach is all that needs to be said.

As a Dolphins fan though, I am salty. The issues with the 100k and tampering are just because he wanted to embarrass the Dolphins and have nothing (or very little) to do with the overall point of the case. I also think he deserved to be fired from the Dolphins as you can’t lose 7 games in a row your third year and expect some wins at the end will save you.

I also think that because he is a former Dolphins coach and made these other allegations against the Dolphins, the Dolphins are the main team being discussed. Which I think is unfair since we hired Flores, have a minority GM, a minority assistant GM and a minority director of player personnel. Dolphins should not be front and center in a case involving racism in hiring practices. Just my two cents.

Dolphins went 8-4 with Tua playing. How many teams succeed with their QB sidelined? Blaming him for giving the Dolphins their 2 of their 3 winning seasons in the past 10 years is crazy. By almost any measure, Flores time in Miami has been a success, even with the GM going with Tua over Flores' choice of Herbert.

Which isnt to say Flores is a perfect coach, but he's succeeded in his time in Miami and it was weird to see him be a scapegoat for their meagre success (?).

We started the year 1-7. That was unacceptable.

Going further down the rabbit hole I also think he made some mistakes with his staff, especially the laughable dual OC thing.

I know that’s not the point of this thread, but last year was supposed to be the year to get back to the playoffs.
I didn’t hate Flores and would not been fine with no decision (fans weren’t clamoring for him to be fired) but the decision to fire him also didn’t surprise me as somebody following the team.

On top of the losses he denigrated Tua so much with the Watson stuff. Which if you believe the rumors, he was openly pushing for.

Again, no intention to derail here. Just salty with some of the stuff being said about the Dolphins because the team has a good history in hiring minority candidates. I fully believe the 100k thing, but again that was in the suit just to take shots at Miami.

again, the dude finished with a winning season in a ridiculously competitive AFC while having his starting QB for half the season. Thats not a failure.

And that 100K thing is not there to just take shots. It's a pattern of behaviour, and criminal behaviour at that. If he has proof, which im reading there might be some, then that will end up taking center stage. Bribing someone, even your own employee, to fix games is a felony. And with the NFL getting in bed with gambling, they could be taken to the cleaners.

[Saints14]

There are definitely issues with hiring in the NFL but I'm not sure I see it with Flores specifically (and that's the tricky part about all of this - at the large scale there are clearly problems but it's hard to accuse any particular case as being discriminatory). But I'm just not seeing it with the Giants hiring.

Daboll was always Schoen's guy given their prior relationship in Buffalo. Once Schoen got the GM job everyone pretty much knew that Daboll was the favorite for the job - Flores didn't need Belichick to tell him that, he could have gone on Twitter. And nobody seemed to have any issue with that last Saturday, so I'm not sure why it's suddenly a problem that the Giants were interviewing other candidates while already having someone in mind for the job. But you know what? Daboll was interviewing with other teams too. He interviewed with the Bears and for a bit it was reported he'd land in Miami to work with Tua (who he coached at Alabama). So the Giants needed a backup plan, and I think it's possible they still really liked Flores and would have sent him an offer if Daboll went elsewhere. That's not a sham interview, that's doing due diligence.

As for the Broncos, I don't really know - Hackett is terrible but it seemed like a pretty clear play for Rodgers.

So I'm not sure this particular lawsuit will work out in Flores' favor, but it could be a real catalyst for improving hiring practices moving forward

[W_HAMILTON]

you mean black qb's were controversial in the 60's and earlier right?....right?

No I was talking about the 70s and 80s. It’s why I got to enjoy watching a hall of fame QB like Warren Moon dominate the CFL for 5 years because he played the “wrong position”.

jesus....so people in the freaking 80's were still like "are black peopke smart enough to throw balls in the air?

I mean, that happened more recently than the 80s...

Rush Limbaugh's -- who was inexplicably an ESPN and NFL on-air personality at the time -- and others' racist comments about Donovan McNabb immediately come to mind, but a lot of black QBs at that time were looked down upon. This was less than 20 years ago. I'm a more casual NFL fan nowadays, but it didn't seem like those type of QBs really were viewed as "legitimate" as other QBs until 2010ish or so.

[Pharmcat]

so billionaire owners, desperate to win, use meritocracy when it comes to choosing players, but suddenly that goes out the window when choosing coaches? okay

So why does the NFL have an issue hiring black head coaches then?

If the pool of black coaching candidates are coming from former players, maybe their skill sets don't align with being a head coach? Running 4.4 with great lateral quickness has nothing to do with being a leader, having good communication skills and being smart. Maybe black coaches at the high school and collegiate level are more defensive orientated which isn't in vogue right now? So as they rise in the ranks, they eventually reach a point where the number of teams willing to hire a defensive HC is limited? Maybe they aren't interviewing well when they get these chance? Maybe they have failed to network well during their stops along the way? Maybe, and I think this is the big one, all these white guys who didn't play, but are super smart, willing and driven, were afforded the ability to work for peanuts while they paid their dues because they had more support than black men who might otherwise be interested in pursuing coaching? You hear all the time about these guys working 60 hour weeks, making nothing, paying their dues for years until they finally get a break. Maybe that's a much more difficult proposition for black men? Maybe black, former players, used to the good life, aren't willing to grind as a low level coach and work their way up after retirement. Maybe they're more interested in getting media jobs instead? Look at Deion. He could have gone right into coaching and by now would certainly have been given an opportunity had he had some success but for a decade he worked in the media instead. Reich had to do internships for a couple years, became an assistant, then QB coach, then WR coach, then OC and the finally HC after paying dues for 10 years. Rivera went into broadcasting for a few years. But then he got into coaching becoming first an LB coach for several years, then DC and then HC...12 years after starting his coaching career. Whereas Deion decided to be an NFL analyst for a decade until he became a HS coach and finally a college HC, 8 years after getting into coaching. If he had embraced coaching earlier, undoubtedly he would have already been a HC or a candidate by now.

I'm not sure there even IS an issue. Hire who you believe is the best candidate. If that happens to be a black guy then great. All I'm positive about is, if an owner felt that a a black man was the best candidate, they'd hire him. Especially in light of the draft pick compensation attached to it. Who are these incredible black HC candidates people think should be getting hired? Bieniemy with his past legal issues, reportedly awful in interviews and concerns he doesn't really call the plays? Leftwich (who has been offered a job btw) who has never been a HC at any level and is possibly a product of Tom Brady? Todd Bowles who got cooked in the playoffs? Leslie Frazier who got cooked in the playoffs? Hue Jackson? Brian Flores who failed to get the Dolphins into the playoffs, has a crappy personality and poor leadership and communication skills? Patrick Graham who has been awful at every stop? And who are these hot black college coaches who want to go to the NFL that aren't getting hired? Who are these great young offensive minded black coordinators that being passed on? Who are these black coaches, that when given the opportunity to be head coaches, beyond a few, that have lit the world on fire and are helping to change the supposed narrative? It'd be one thing if there was a glut of really intriguing candidates and they were getting passed over but that's not the case.

Josh McDaniels bombed in Denver and got busted cheated and was fired. Later he accepts colts job but then faxes in his resignation. Yet he still got a gig and continued to be considered a candidate for previous opened slots. No black coach would be afforded the same chances mcdaniels has gotten despite his baggage

[Duke4life831]

Also, I think it's important for folks to consider the context that Flores is a very good coach and he definitely would have had another job in this league as a HC. We're not talking about an underachieving person here. He may have sued himself out of the NFL by doing this. That in itself should lend some credibility to his position.

He's an old school HC. Teams these days want offensive play callers as HC. That may revert back to the type of coach Flores is (more so CEO type IE Mike Tomlin) but the league has been trending away from the Flores type for a few years now...

Ya Flores has 2 things going against him in the coaching ranks.

He only has 1 year in the NFL of calling plays. So he’s not viewed as an offensive guru or a stud defensive mind. And his players don’t like him.

For the last two years it’s been leak after leak of players can’t stand playing for him. This isn’t just a Flores thing, this seems to be a running theme with Belichick assistants. They all seem to lose the locker room pretty damn quick.

[SK21209]

So why does the NFL have an issue hiring black head coaches then?

If the pool of black coaching candidates are coming from former players, maybe their skill sets don't align with being a head coach? Running 4.4 with great lateral quickness has nothing to do with being a leader, having good communication skills and being smart. Maybe black coaches at the high school and collegiate level are more defensive orientated which isn't in vogue right now? So as they rise in the ranks, they eventually reach a point where the number of teams willing to hire a defensive HC is limited? Maybe they aren't interviewing well when they get these chance? Maybe they have failed to network well during their stops along the way? Maybe, and I think this is the big one, all these white guys who didn't play, but are super smart, willing and driven, were afforded the ability to work for peanuts while they paid their dues because they had more support than black men who might otherwise be interested in pursuing coaching? You hear all the time about these guys working 60 hour weeks, making nothing, paying their dues for years until they finally get a break. Maybe that's a much more difficult proposition for black men? Maybe black, former players, used to the good life, aren't willing to grind as a low level coach and work their way up after retirement. Maybe they're more interested in getting media jobs instead? Look at Deion. He could have gone right into coaching and by now would certainly have been given an opportunity had he had some success but for a decade he worked in the media instead. Reich had to do internships for a couple years, became an assistant, then QB coach, then WR coach, then OC and the finally HC after paying dues for 10 years. Rivera went into broadcasting for a few years. But then he got into coaching becoming first an LB coach for several years, then DC and then HC...12 years after starting his coaching career. Whereas Deion decided to be an NFL analyst for a decade until he became a HS coach and finally a college HC, 8 years after getting into coaching. If he had embraced coaching earlier, undoubtedly he would have already been a HC or a candidate by now.

I'm not sure there even IS an issue. Hire who you believe is the best candidate. If that happens to be a black guy then great. All I'm positive about is, if an owner felt that a a black man was the best candidate, they'd hire him. Especially in light of the draft pick compensation attached to it. Who are these incredible black HC candidates people think should be getting hired? Bieniemy with his past legal issues, reportedly awful in interviews and concerns he doesn't really call the plays? Leftwich (who has been offered a job btw) who has never been a HC at any level and is possibly a product of Tom Brady? Todd Bowles who got cooked in the playoffs? Leslie Frazier who got cooked in the playoffs? Hue Jackson? Brian Flores who failed to get the Dolphins into the playoffs, has a crappy personality and poor leadership and communication skills? Patrick Graham who has been awful at every stop? And who are these hot black college coaches who want to go to the NFL that aren't getting hired? Who are these great young offensive minded black coordinators that being passed on? Who are these black coaches, that when given the opportunity to be head coaches, beyond a few, that have lit the world on fire and are helping to change the supposed narrative? It'd be one thing if there was a glut of really intriguing candidates and they were getting passed over but that's not the case.

Josh McDaniels bombed in Denver and got busted cheated and was fired. Later he accepts colts job but then faxes in his resignation. Yet he still got a gig and continued to be considered a candidate for previous opened slots. No black coach would be afforded the same chances mcdaniels has gotten despite his baggage

Josh McDaniels keeps getting chances because he ran the offense for the greatest dynasty in the history of the NFL.

[heatwillbeback]

Dolphins went 8-4 with Tua playing. How many teams succeed with their QB sidelined? Blaming him for giving the Dolphins their 2 of their 3 winning seasons in the past 10 years is crazy. By almost any measure, Flores time in Miami has been a success, even with the GM going with Tua over Flores' choice of Herbert.

Which isnt to say Flores is a perfect coach, but he's succeeded in his time in Miami and it was weird to see him be a scapegoat for their meagre success (?).

We started the year 1-7. That was unacceptable.

Going further down the rabbit hole I also think he made some mistakes with his staff, especially the laughable dual OC thing.

I know that’s not the point of this thread, but last year was supposed to be the year to get back to the playoffs.
I didn’t hate Flores and would not been fine with no decision (fans weren’t clamoring for him to be fired) but the decision to fire him also didn’t surprise me as somebody following the team.

On top of the losses he denigrated Tua so much with the Watson stuff. Which if you believe the rumors, he was openly pushing for.

Again, no intention to derail here. Just salty with some of the stuff being said about the Dolphins because the team has a good history in hiring minority candidates. I fully believe the 100k thing, but again that was in the suit just to take shots at Miami.

again, the dude finished with a winning season in a ridiculously competitive AFC while having his starting QB for half the season. Thats not a failure.

And that 100K thing is not there to just take shots. It's a pattern of behaviour, and criminal behaviour at that. If he has proof, which im reading there might be some, then that will end up taking center stage. Bribing someone, even your own employee, to fix games is a felony. And with the NFL getting in bed with gambling, they could be taken to the cleaners.

The 100k thing will definitely affect the team the most. Tanking is widely accepted, but you can’t be open with it.

I said it was put there as a shot because it is not really related to the focus of the lawsuit- inequity in hiring practices. I never said the action wasn’t wrong. Flores put it out there to make the Dolphins suffer, and it will likely work. NFL will gladly make an example of the Dolphins for the tanking stuff to distract from the racism stuff.

As for Flores, I think he was a good defensive coach with no knack for coaching offense. Which if you hire a good offensive staff you can get away with. Dolphins did not have a good offensive coaching staff. Every game was a battle to get to 20.

[gmoney411]

so billionaire owners, desperate to win, use meritocracy when it comes to choosing players, but suddenly that goes out the window when choosing coaches? okay

I would imagine the things you're looking for from head coaching candidates are: experience, leadership, communication and intelligence. Flores was a petty loser that was a horrible leader. Go ask Stills, Tua and Minkah. He cycled through coordinators his whole stay and was clearly not on the same page as Grier and Ross when it came to Tua and his press conferences were laughable so his communication skills suck too. At the end of the day, he didn't have results on the field, failing to make the playoffs despite these same talking heads NOW claiming they weren't that talented, picking them to make the playoffs, largely because of their great young talent and Flores.

Any decent lawyer gets this frivolous lawsuit thrown out of court. Nothing in those texts is damning like people are claiming. The Giants did nothing wrong. Unless he has receipts for the 100k offer or tax statements showing he got those payments he has no leg to stand on with the Dolphins. And the Broncos have receipts that he's lying about their interview with him. So he's going to be exposed as a salty coach who is using race and the idiotic, woke and complicit media to strengthen this narrative, to get paid because his ego is bruised.

Notice how literally everyone is taking his accusations as truth. Not a single talking head doubts it or qualifies their headlines with "allegedly" It's all assumed to be true.

They 100% aren't all desperate to win and don't all choose players based on who is the best. That's a ridiculous Clay Travis position that holds no water. I could make an incredibly long list of player and personnel choices that were about favoritism, ego, and likeability over ability. Jerry Jones fired the best coach he ever had and it wasn't about winning games. These teams are run by people with egos and preferences and their decisions aren't fueled solely by winning.

[azcatz11]

Dolphins went 8-4 with Tua playing. How many teams succeed with their QB sidelined? Blaming him for giving the Dolphins their 2 of their 3 winning seasons in the past 10 years is crazy. By almost any measure, Flores time in Miami has been a success, even with the GM going with Tua over Flores' choice of Herbert.

Which isnt to say Flores is a perfect coach, but he's succeeded in his time in Miami and it was weird to see him be a scapegoat for their meagre success (?).

We started the year 1-7. That was unacceptable.

Going further down the rabbit hole I also think he made some mistakes with his staff, especially the laughable dual OC thing.

I know that’s not the point of this thread, but last year was supposed to be the year to get back to the playoffs.
I didn’t hate Flores and would not been fine with no decision (fans weren’t clamoring for him to be fired) but the decision to fire him also didn’t surprise me as somebody following the team.

On top of the losses he denigrated Tua so much with the Watson stuff. Which if you believe the rumors, he was openly pushing for.

Again, no intention to derail here. Just salty with some of the stuff being said about the Dolphins because the team has a good history in hiring minority candidates. I fully believe the 100k thing, but again that was in the suit just to take shots at Miami.

again, the dude finished with a winning season in a ridiculously competitive AFC while having his starting QB for half the season. Thats not a failure.

And that 100K thing is not there to just take shots. It's a pattern of behaviour, and criminal behaviour at that. If he has proof, which im reading there might be some, then that will end up taking center stage. Bribing someone, even your own employee, to fix games is a felony. And with the NFL getting in bed with gambling, they could be taken to the cleaners.

The Dolphins had a horrible season. They beat up on the Jets + backup QB's during their winning streak. They blew the game against the Jags in London. They should have made the playoffs with the roster they had.

[mademan]

We started the year 1-7. That was unacceptable.

Going further down the rabbit hole I also think he made some mistakes with his staff, especially the laughable dual OC thing.

I know that’s not the point of this thread, but last year was supposed to be the year to get back to the playoffs.
I didn’t hate Flores and would not been fine with no decision (fans weren’t clamoring for him to be fired) but the decision to fire him also didn’t surprise me as somebody following the team.

On top of the losses he denigrated Tua so much with the Watson stuff. Which if you believe the rumors, he was openly pushing for.

Again, no intention to derail here. Just salty with some of the stuff being said about the Dolphins because the team has a good history in hiring minority candidates. I fully believe the 100k thing, but again that was in the suit just to take shots at Miami.

again, the dude finished with a winning season in a ridiculously competitive AFC while having his starting QB for half the season. Thats not a failure.

And that 100K thing is not there to just take shots. It's a pattern of behaviour, and criminal behaviour at that. If he has proof, which im reading there might be some, then that will end up taking center stage. Bribing someone, even your own employee, to fix games is a felony. And with the NFL getting in bed with gambling, they could be taken to the cleaners.

The Dolphins had a horrible season. They beat up on the Jets + backup QB's during their winning streak. They blew the game against the Jags in London. They should have made the playoffs with the roster they had.

what roster? They have a below average QB, poor weapons and a decent defensive cast. What talent do they have? Honestly? And in the games their starting QB actually did play, they went 8-4. How many teams succeed without their starting QB?

[azcatz11]

again, the dude finished with a winning season in a ridiculously competitive AFC while having his starting QB for half the season. Thats not a failure.

And that 100K thing is not there to just take shots. It's a pattern of behaviour, and criminal behaviour at that. If he has proof, which im reading there might be some, then that will end up taking center stage. Bribing someone, even your own employee, to fix games is a felony. And with the NFL getting in bed with gambling, they could be taken to the cleaners.

The Dolphins had a horrible season. They beat up on the Jets + backup QB's during their winning streak. They blew the game against the Jags in London. They should have made the playoffs with the roster they had.

what roster? They have a below average QB, poor weapons and a decent defensive cast. What talent do they have? Honestly? And in the games their starting QB actually did play, they went 8-4. How many teams succeed without their starting QB?

That's the thing though - it's the HC responsibility to hire capable offensive coordinator(s) (when the HC doesn't call plays) In the Dolphins case, they went with a dog & pony show of 2 OC coordinator's and it was a disaster. I followed the Dolphins b/c I had Waddle on my fantasy team. They actually had pretty decent weapons but no running game. Gesicki had a breakout year but their O Line was a disaster, that is true.

As far as their defense, they had some injuries but it should have been better...especially in the beginning of the season when they were getting blown out and didn't lose key guys like Howard.

I'm not going to die on this hill but I will say the beginning of the season losses were really bad. After the Patriots win it got ugly fast until they went on that streak. If they beat the Titans week 17 they could have clinched a PO birth but they got blown out. I think that's what cost Flores his job...if that was a close game it's possible they could have kept him as they had momentum.