Former Miami Dolphins HC Brian Flores SUES the NFL FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION;owner offered HC $100k per loss 4 draft

[Pharmcat]

If the pool of black coaching candidates are coming from former players, maybe their skill sets don't align with being a head coach? Running 4.4 with great lateral quickness has nothing to do with being a leader, having good communication skills and being smart. Maybe black coaches at the high school and collegiate level are more defensive orientated which isn't in vogue right now? So as they rise in the ranks, they eventually reach a point where the number of teams willing to hire a defensive HC is limited? Maybe they aren't interviewing well when they get these chance? Maybe they have failed to network well during their stops along the way? Maybe, and I think this is the big one, all these white guys who didn't play, but are super smart, willing and driven, were afforded the ability to work for peanuts while they paid their dues because they had more support than black men who might otherwise be interested in pursuing coaching? You hear all the time about these guys working 60 hour weeks, making nothing, paying their dues for years until they finally get a break. Maybe that's a much more difficult proposition for black men? Maybe black, former players, used to the good life, aren't willing to grind as a low level coach and work their way up after retirement. Maybe they're more interested in getting media jobs instead? Look at Deion. He could have gone right into coaching and by now would certainly have been given an opportunity had he had some success but for a decade he worked in the media instead. Reich had to do internships for a couple years, became an assistant, then QB coach, then WR coach, then OC and the finally HC after paying dues for 10 years. Rivera went into broadcasting for a few years. But then he got into coaching becoming first an LB coach for several years, then DC and then HC...12 years after starting his coaching career. Whereas Deion decided to be an NFL analyst for a decade until he became a HS coach and finally a college HC, 8 years after getting into coaching. If he had embraced coaching earlier, undoubtedly he would have already been a HC or a candidate by now.

I'm not sure there even IS an issue. Hire who you believe is the best candidate. If that happens to be a black guy then great. All I'm positive about is, if an owner felt that a a black man was the best candidate, they'd hire him. Especially in light of the draft pick compensation attached to it. Who are these incredible black HC candidates people think should be getting hired? Bieniemy with his past legal issues, reportedly awful in interviews and concerns he doesn't really call the plays? Leftwich (who has been offered a job btw) who has never been a HC at any level and is possibly a product of Tom Brady? Todd Bowles who got cooked in the playoffs? Leslie Frazier who got cooked in the playoffs? Hue Jackson? Brian Flores who failed to get the Dolphins into the playoffs, has a crappy personality and poor leadership and communication skills? Patrick Graham who has been awful at every stop? And who are these hot black college coaches who want to go to the NFL that aren't getting hired? Who are these great young offensive minded black coordinators that being passed on? Who are these black coaches, that when given the opportunity to be head coaches, beyond a few, that have lit the world on fire and are helping to change the supposed narrative? It'd be one thing if there was a glut of really intriguing candidates and they were getting passed over but that's not the case.

Josh McDaniels bombed in Denver and got busted cheated and was fired. Later he accepts colts job but then faxes in his resignation. Yet he still got a gig and continued to be considered a candidate for previous opened slots. No black coach would be afforded the same chances mcdaniels has gotten despite his baggage

Josh McDaniels keeps getting chances because he ran the offense for the greatest dynasty in the history of the NFL.

oh so brady uplifting coordinators applies to Leftwich but not Mcdaniels? wonder why

Mcdaniels head coaching record is 11-17, thats horrible. and hes a caught cheater.

[ForeverTFC]

Is there people out there that actually believe the NFL is NOT racist? People would regularly and openly say "you can't win with a black QB" 10 years ago.

I haven't read enough to comment on the merits of this specific case, so I will hold off there.

Stop making **** up man

Is there people out there that actually believe the NFL is NOT racist? People would regularly and openly say "you can't win with a black QB" 10 years ago.

I haven't read enough to comment on the merits of this specific case, so I will hold off there.

10 years ago?... You gonna act like no one here is old enough to remember that wasn't said "regularly and openly" in 2012?

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

Just because you're not cognizant of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

https://globalsportmatters.com/business/2021/11/01/how-nfl-continues-devalue-black-quarterbacks-cam-newton/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/29/sport/nfl-black-quarterbacks-cmd-spt-intl/index.html

In doing so, we found that rushing yards had no impact on pay. Zilch. Recently, we looked at data from 2006 to 2020 to see if anything has changed. It hasn’t. NFL quarterbacks receive pay premiums for many things, including career experience (about $220,000 per year) and passing performance (roughly $500,000 per 1,000 yards). But running prowess isn’t one of those things.

Of course, disregarding how running contributes to offensive production isn’t the only way that NFL decision-makers, most of whom are White, seem to devalue Black quarterbacks. In our studies, Simmons and I found that while White signal-callers who are chosen for the Pro Bowl enjoy higher pay in the future, their Black counterparts do not.

Similarly, all quarterbacks – Black and White – enjoy an initial pay boost from being a high draft pick. For White quarterbacks, that effect lasts more than a decade; for Black quarterbacks, it fades after seven years.

We are not the only researchers to find evidence that Black and White quarterbacks are evaluated differently. In 2017, economics professor Brian Volz examined NFL data from 2001 to 2009. Controlling for factors including injury, age, experience, performance, team investment, and the quality of a team’s backup, he found that Black quarterbacks were twice as likely as White ones to be benched.

In addition, Volz found that teams that benched White quarterbacks were more likely to improve relative to teams that benched Black quarterbacks – suggesting that this sort of discrimination occurs despite having a negative impact on success.

A 2008 quantitative study by Jeffries and Matthew Bigler showed that "draft experts buy into and perpetuate racial stereotypes about Blacks that adversely impact Black college quarterbacks' chances of matriculating to the National Football League."
The study also said: "Blacks are consistently rated more negatively in the areas of leadership and intelligence/decision making."

[RRyder823]

Yeah nothing about that is about people "regularly and openly" saying **** and most of it is quite honestly just people connecting dots to come to a pre agreed upon conclusion by equating RUNNING QBs with Black QBs (ironically enough a racist statement in itself)

FYI running QBs are devalued for a reason. Wanna tell me Daniel Jones has been great because he can run?

That's different then QBs that can run and throw and most importantly know when to do which. Those are the QBs that get valued highly.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

[lobosloboslobos]

so billionaire owners, desperate to win, use meritocracy when it comes to choosing players, but suddenly that goes out the window when choosing coaches? okay

So why does the NFL have an issue hiring black head coaches then?

If the pool of black coaching candidates are coming from former players, maybe their skill sets don't align with being a head coach? Running 4.4 with great lateral quickness has nothing to do with being a leader, having good communication skills and being smart. Maybe black coaches at the high school and collegiate level are more defensive orientated which isn't in vogue right now? So as they rise in the ranks, they eventually reach a point where the number of teams willing to hire a defensive HC is limited? Maybe they aren't interviewing well when they get these chance? Maybe they have failed to network well during their stops along the way? Maybe, and I think this is the big one, all these white guys who didn't play, but are super smart, willing and driven, were afforded the ability to work for peanuts while they paid their dues because they had more support than black men who might otherwise be interested in pursuing coaching? You hear all the time about these guys working 60 hour weeks, making nothing, paying their dues for years until they finally get a break. Maybe that's a much more difficult proposition for black men? Maybe black, former players, used to the good life, aren't willing to grind as a low level coach and work their way up after retirement. Maybe they're more interested in getting media jobs instead? Look at Deion. He could have gone right into coaching and by now would certainly have been given an opportunity had he had some success but for a decade he worked in the media instead. Reich had to do internships for a couple years, became an assistant, then QB coach, then WR coach, then OC and the finally HC after paying dues for 10 years. Rivera went into broadcasting for a few years. But then he got into coaching becoming first an LB coach for several years, then DC and then HC...12 years after starting his coaching career. Whereas Deion decided to be an NFL analyst for a decade until he became a HS coach and finally a college HC, 8 years after getting into coaching. If he had embraced coaching earlier, undoubtedly he would have already been a HC or a candidate by now.

I'm not sure there even IS an issue. Hire who you believe is the best candidate. If that happens to be a black guy then great. All I'm positive about is, if an owner felt that a a black man was the best candidate, they'd hire him. Especially in light of the draft pick compensation attached to it. Who are these incredible black HC candidates people think should be getting hired? Bieniemy with his past legal issues, reportedly awful in interviews and concerns he doesn't really call the plays? Leftwich (who has been offered a job btw) who has never been a HC at any level and is possibly a product of Tom Brady? Todd Bowles who got cooked in the playoffs? Leslie Frazier who got cooked in the playoffs? Hue Jackson? Brian Flores who failed to get the Dolphins into the playoffs, has a crappy personality and poor leadership and communication skills? Patrick Graham who has been awful at every stop? And who are these hot black college coaches who want to go to the NFL that aren't getting hired? Who are these great young offensive minded black coordinators that being passed on? Who are these black coaches, that when given the opportunity to be head coaches, beyond a few, that have lit the world on fire and are helping to change the supposed narrative? It'd be one thing if there was a glut of really intriguing candidates and they were getting passed over but that's not the case.

So - and I am ONLY taking your words here:

Black guys:
- Run 4.4 with great lateral quickness
- aren't interviewing well
- failed to network well
- used to the good life
- aren't willing to grind as a low level coach and work their way up
- more interested in getting media jobs
- past legal issues
- crappy personality and poor leadership and communication skills

White guys
- super smart, willing and driven

right. message taken. loud and clear.

[Rainwater]

This isn’t true anymore. Again 25 out of the 32 head coaches last year never played in the NFL. The NFL has definitely made a clear change to looking to hire guys that have been coaches since college.

But that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more African American head coaches. The next question would be why aren't there more black college head coaches? You can't tell me the people who predominantly play the game are not interested in coaching it.

I'm sure they are. But the pool of persons from which coaches are selected is not limited to just the players that play at the collegiate or professional level, its everyone who wants to coach football. Belichick played at Wesleyan and then immediately took a $25 per week assistant job with the Baltimore Colts when he graduated. Maybe there's some discussion to be had about young, aspiring white coaches more often having the financial means to take chances on low-paying assistant coaching jobs like that to get their foot in the door somewhere. Maybe actually playing in the league puts you at a disadvantage because you get your first job coaching/working for a team later in life than someone set out on that career path earlier because they weren't good enough to pay in college or the pros. Both coaches in the Super Bowl this year, McVay and Zac Taylor, played in college but never made it to the league, so they got their assistant jobs while they were still in their 20s. It's certainly a confluence of factors, and sure maybe in some instances someone isn't hired because they're black, but it makes no rational sense to draw the line between the percentage of black players and percentage of black coaches and then just chalk it up racism, and there's no real evidence to back that up either.

I kinda agree to a certain extent this is a nauanced conversation that needs more research than what could be done on an online message board and there shouldn't be simple deductions However, at the same time you cannot eliminate the aspect of systemic racism that may exist. And there is a difference between racism and systemic racism.

I have more to say here but it's too much to write lol.

[The Rebel]

The thing I had the biggest issue with was Flores interviewing for the DEN job and DEN front office showing up super late and apparently very hungover. That is a huge disrespect to Flores and shows that DEN didn't care at all to get to know him or see if he was a candidate they would want to hire.

According to Denver they were in a late interview and landed just in time to make the interview and say they have proof that they were there and on time.

[The Rebel]

Is there people out there that actually believe the NFL is NOT racist? People would regularly and openly say "you can't win with a black QB" 10 years ago.

I haven't read enough to comment on the merits of this specific case, so I will hold off there.

Stop making **** up man

I don't think it has been openly talked about for maybe 20 years, but it was openly talked about as recently as the late 90s.

[The Rebel]

But that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more African American head coaches. The next question would be why aren't there more black college head coaches? You can't tell me the people who predominantly play the game are not interested in coaching it.

... then immediately took a $25 per week assistant job with the Baltimore Colts when he graduated. Maybe there's some discussion to be had about young, aspiring white coaches more often having the financial means to take chances on low-paying assistant coaching jobs like that to get their foot in the door somewhere. Maybe actually playing in the league puts you at a disadvantage because you get your first job coaching/working for a team later in life than someone set out on that career path earlier because they weren't good enough to pay in college or the pros...

There's a lot of truth in this post. I think I heard a similar line of thinking about people who work in Hollywood or comedy writers or something. Often, they have more means and/or support to tolerate those low-paying menial jobs in their 20s or beyond.

Likewise, it's "highly likely" racism has indeed surfaced at some point during hiring cycles. After all, the NFL has several owners who were adults when schools were still segregated.

I think it is naïve to think none of the owners are racist. I remember how big of news it was when Art Shell got hired, and that there were national writers predicting failure just based on race, that was 32 years ago. I also remember when Warren Moon had to go to Canada to prove that he could be a professional quarterback, and people openly talked about not being able to win with guys like Culpepper who played the "black' style of quarterback.

I also think the Rooney rule is dumb, they changed the rules a couple of years ago because teams have been ignoring or finding ways around the rule since it's inception. If a team owner is not going to hire a black man regardless of qualifications, than it doesn't matter if he interviews a dozen highly qualified black coaches, he isn't going to hire him.

The thing is that there are no easy answers, and I don't know that a lawsuit is going to change their minds.

[SK21209]

Josh McDaniels bombed in Denver and got busted cheated and was fired. Later he accepts colts job but then faxes in his resignation. Yet he still got a gig and continued to be considered a candidate for previous opened slots. No black coach would be afforded the same chances mcdaniels has gotten despite his baggage

Josh McDaniels keeps getting chances because he ran the offense for the greatest dynasty in the history of the NFL.

oh so brady uplifting coordinators applies to Leftwich but not Mcdaniels? wonder why

Mcdaniels head coaching record is 11-17, thats horrible. and hes a caught cheater.

My understanding is that Leftwich is the preferred candidate in Jacksonville but he is asking that Trent Baalke, the GM, be fired and that the team hire Adrian Wilson from the Cardinals as the new GM. Not sure where I could have gotten that idea apart from the numerous articles about it over the last week. But yeah, it’s because he’s black

[ForeverTFC]

Is there people out there that actually believe the NFL is NOT racist? People would regularly and openly say "you can't win with a black QB" 10 years ago.

I haven't read enough to comment on the merits of this specific case, so I will hold off there.

Stop making **** up man

I don't think it has been openly talked about for maybe 20 years, but it was openly talked about as recently as the late 90s.

Rush Limbaugh was saying people overrate McNabb because he's a black quarterback to prove a certain narrative in early to mid 2000s - can't remember the exact date. Folks were open about it on TV in the 2000s.

There is proof point after proof point that white quarterbacks in the 2010s got more money, more chances, and longer leashes in the NFL than black quarterbacks when controlling for performance and quality of the other QBs on their teams.

This is literally from 2019:

Baltimore Ravens head coach John Harbaugh said he frequently heard the coded language this season from some reporters when they asked questions about the play of rookie quarterback Lamar Jackson.

“ ‘Is his style of play sustainable? Can you win with this style of play?’ ” Harbaugh said recently, reflecting on the type of questions he was asked. Jackson saved the Ravens’ season with an improvised style of play that combined dynamic running and timely passing. The day we spoke, Jackson had outdueled Cleveland’s Baker Mayfield, who threw three interceptions that day. There was more talk about everything Mayfield had done well and concern about whether the Ravens could win with Jackson’s style of play.

“I’m tired of the coded language,” Harbaugh said, leaving it at that.

It's all there. It's right in the open. They're just using different words.

[Mephariel]

so billionaire owners, desperate to win, use meritocracy when it comes to choosing players, but suddenly that goes out the window when choosing coaches? okay

So why does the NFL have an issue hiring black head coaches then?

If the pool of black coaching candidates are coming from former players, maybe their skill sets don't align with being a head coach? Running 4.4 with great lateral quickness has nothing to do with being a leader, having good communication skills and being smart. Maybe black coaches at the high school and collegiate level are more defensive orientated which isn't in vogue right now? So as they rise in the ranks, they eventually reach a point where the number of teams willing to hire a defensive HC is limited? Maybe they aren't interviewing well when they get these chance? Maybe they have failed to network well during their stops along the way? Maybe, and I think this is the big one, all these white guys who didn't play, but are super smart, willing and driven, were afforded the ability to work for peanuts while they paid their dues because they had more support than black men who might otherwise be interested in pursuing coaching? You hear all the time about these guys working 60 hour weeks, making nothing, paying their dues for years until they finally get a break. Maybe that's a much more difficult proposition for black men? Maybe black, former players, used to the good life, aren't willing to grind as a low level coach and work their way up after retirement. Maybe they're more interested in getting media jobs instead? Look at Deion. He could have gone right into coaching and by now would certainly have been given an opportunity had he had some success but for a decade he worked in the media instead. Reich had to do internships for a couple years, became an assistant, then QB coach, then WR coach, then OC and the finally HC after paying dues for 10 years. Rivera went into broadcasting for a few years. But then he got into coaching becoming first an LB coach for several years, then DC and then HC...12 years after starting his coaching career. Whereas Deion decided to be an NFL analyst for a decade until he became a HS coach and finally a college HC, 8 years after getting into coaching. If he had embraced coaching earlier, undoubtedly he would have already been a HC or a candidate by now.

I'm not sure there even IS an issue. Hire who you believe is the best candidate. If that happens to be a black guy then great. All I'm positive about is, if an owner felt that a a black man was the best candidate, they'd hire him. Especially in light of the draft pick compensation attached to it. Who are these incredible black HC candidates people think should be getting hired? Bieniemy with his past legal issues, reportedly awful in interviews and concerns he doesn't really call the plays? Leftwich (who has been offered a job btw) who has never been a HC at any level and is possibly a product of Tom Brady? Todd Bowles who got cooked in the playoffs? Leslie Frazier who got cooked in the playoffs? Hue Jackson? Brian Flores who failed to get the Dolphins into the playoffs, has a crappy personality and poor leadership and communication skills? Patrick Graham who has been awful at every stop? And who are these hot black college coaches who want to go to the NFL that aren't getting hired? Who are these great young offensive minded black coordinators that being passed on? Who are these black coaches, that when given the opportunity to be head coaches, beyond a few, that have lit the world on fire and are helping to change the supposed narrative? It'd be one thing if there was a glut of really intriguing candidates and they were getting passed over but that's not the case.

You clearly never worked in the biomedical or biotech or STEM sector. "Hire who you believe is the best candidate." So an Asian guy or a white guy? I literally had an Asian manager told me we need to hire this Asian tech because she came from a poor country, works hard and deserves a chance. Another manager literally has all Asians on his team. I used to work under his team, and I still had no idea how any of them are Supervisors. Most of them came from an academic background with no experience in supervision.

[HardenandWilt]

I support Brian Flores, glad to see hue jackson backing him. Raheem Morris is another they should call and get involved on this

[Jkam31]

Is there people out there that actually believe the NFL is NOT racist? People would regularly and openly say "you can't win with a black QB" 10 years ago.

I haven't read enough to comment on the merits of this specific case, so I will hold off there.

Stop making **** up man

I don't think it has been openly talked about for maybe 20 years, but it was openly talked about as recently as the late 90s.

Ya the 90’s not ten years ago

[Jkam31]

I support Brian Flores, glad to see hue jackson backing him. Raheem Morris is another they should call and get involved on this

Yup even if he doesn’t support them let’s make him invloved

[SaveTheHens]

I mean considering his record the last 3 years its not super surprising. Had he taken that 100k/game the first year maybe they'd have made the playoffs one of the last 2 seasons? It's kind of how it goes nowadays, appease the owner/boss, even if they are off in their strategy they're paying you, they have autonomy in the situation whereas if you overuse your autonomy and it's not in line with theirs, it's common practice that the boss won't be rosy about you and you can get fired.
Overall its a good discussion anyway, why should those who 'own' these structures have autonomy to do as they like if they haven't proven its effectiveness. In a lot of ways they deserve the power they have because in some form they 'earned it', but in some ways they may have reached that position in immoral ways & who are they to run the ship now? Its like the Donald Sterling saga years ago, he's the rightful owner but he's a weak person with poor core beliefs who acted like a prick so deserved to be disempowered.
I guess in a way this is our responsibility as a society but we do get too caught up in distractions to be accountable. We should do a better job of recognizing which 'rich people' or 'leaders' basically, we should empower through our business & which one's we stop buying items or watching content from. The ideal is that over time with responsible spending habits the leaders of tomorrow will be responsible, fair, moral, outside-of-the-box thinkers capable and competent of leading us. Right now there's a lot of rot, a lot of money going to stagnant figures who want to feel comfortable & keep everything the same, even when the world is slapping them in the face that they're wrong. There is a smugness about NFL owners, a guy like Kraft gets caught up in sex scandals and it's barely even reported on, in a way we should keep our media more accountable too or be on the lookout to support & empower new media companies that are more truthful in their coverage.
There's a lot of **** in the world but rule changes won't move the mountains that need to be moved, there are tremendously rich people who would prefer their comfort over societal progress, all we need to do is not spend money on the products those people produce and their money will not be making societal decisions anymore. Support NFL or NBA teams with people you respect, regardless of the hometown, aka don't support the Knicks of the leagues and the powerhunger of the super-stagnant Dolan who disrespect past legends and act like slobs but are happy to make a buck. Let those franchise owners lose money and business in more than just sports ways, and as a society we can start impacting change from where we are instead of appeasing a stuck personality who got to their wealth without merit.

[KnicksGadfly]

Pretty sure it’s not just systemic. NFL needs to stop hiding the Snyder files cause we know Gruden wasn’t the only one implicated in them. The ironic thing was that Gruden was one of those nepotism hires. Dude crashed and burned badly.

[Dutchball97]

Racial profiling in the NFL is pretty blatant. Maybe it isn't meant to be malicious but they clearly rely on racial stereotypes in their evaluation of players. They are hesitant to put in black players at traditionally "smart" positions like QB, MLB or center. White players at positions requiring a lot of straight line speed like WR, RB or CB are also incredibly rare due to the idea that black people are by definition better athletes, while "whites can't jump". Even though there have been plenty of very athletic white players and very smart black players, they seem to be treated as exceptions to the rule still.

A similar thought process applying to the hiring of coaches isn't too surprising.

[celtics543]

Racial profiling in the NFL is pretty blatant. Maybe it isn't meant to be malicious but they clearly rely on racial stereotypes in their evaluation of players. They are hesitant to put in black players at traditionally "smart" positions like QB, MLB or center. White players at positions requiring a lot of straight line speed like WR, RB or CB are also incredibly rare due to the idea that black people are by definition better athletes, while "whites can't jump". Even though there have been plenty of very athletic white players and very smart black players, they seem to be treated as exceptions to the rule still.

A similar thought process applying to the hiring of coaches isn't too surprising.

I'd agree with this wholeheartedly. We get WAY too hung up on race in all ways and it causes people to stereotype everything. Right now we're talking about black coaches not getting a fair shot. Ten years ago it was about Jeremy Lin and how shocked everyone was that someone who was Asian could be such a great basketball player. I'll ask anyone on here to name me the last time a white running back or corner started game in the NFL? Is the implied message that people are sending and receiving that no black person can possibly be smart enough to be a head coach or that no white person could be fast/athletic enough to be a great running back or corner? I think unfortunately that is the implied message based on history of those positions and that's the issue here.

Not a person alive is going to claim there should be more white corners or running backs. It's a silly argument because everyone understands that coaches and gms are choosing the best players for the position based on their analysis. No one questions that. Just like when we all see a 7 foot white guy we all immediately think they're a big slow plodding big man. It's why every white NBA player with even a little skill gets compared to Larry Bird. It's why every athletic black guy in the NBA gets compared to Jordan. How often do you see cross-cultural comparisons? Luka got compared to Bird immediately. Dirk got compared to Bird. Kobe got compared to Jordan. How come no one ever says Kobe was like Jerry West or that Luka reminds them of Magic or Oscar Robertson? It's because of implicit biases that we all have. Not hateful, not explicit, but they exist and we just aren't even aware of them.

That's why this discussion is so difficult and why there is no great answer. It's hard to tell the top decision maker that they need to hire someone based on race. That person is always going to want to save their own job and that means hiring the person they have the most confidence in to get the job done. The problem is that they have their own biases that lead them to make a certain decision and they aren't often aware of those biases. It happens in the draft as well with players. We all know the story of Isiah and Rodman saying BIrd would be "just another player" if he was black. I'd argue in basketball Bird gets underrated because he's white. By the same token we underrate would-be head coaches who are black in the same way.

I hope Flores gets what he's looking for out of this lawsuit but I'm at a loss as to how to change the issues he's fighting against. The answer is bigger than the NFL and it's bigger than pro sports. It's a societal issue that I think is prevalent not just in America but all over the world. Stereotypes are hard to break and they cause bias that becomes so ingrained that it's hard to look past even if you're conscious of it.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Stop making **** up man

I don't think it has been openly talked about for maybe 20 years, but it was openly talked about as recently as the late 90s.

Ya the 90’s not ten years ago

The big story here, however, is that would still be a huge indictment on the NFL.

[R-DAWG]

Trying to be sensitive here, but I don't necessarily understand how the Giants hiring Dabroll over Flores is discrimination. Look at the background of both coaches and you understand why, for football reasons, the Giants went with a different background and skillset than what Flores brings to the table:

1) The Giants decided to pass on Flores, a coach with a defensive background, to hire Dabroll, a coach with an offensive background who is coming off a run in Buffalo developing one of the top young QB's in the league. The Giants have a QB that they used a top 7 pick on a few years ago who has had mixed results at best so it is understandable that the Giants went with an offensive coach over a defensive coach.

2) Dabroll has a working relationship with the new GM, Flores does not. It's understandable that any person, in any field, would lean towards hiring someone he has a personal relationship with.

3) Both coordinators that Dabroll has hired are African American and the Giants had an African American GM for 10 years. So the Giants don't really have a track record of discrimination, it's actually anything but.

So when I look at that fact pattern, it makes a lot of sense that the Giants picked a head coach with expertise on the offensive side of the ball who has worked with the new GM for years over an outsider defensive coach.

I get it, there are not enough African American head coaches in the league relative to the percentage of African American players in the league. And the same can be said about front office positions and coordinators. But I don't see how Brian Flores is a victim of discrimination here. Honestly, cases like this hurt the anti discrimination push, because the coach the Giants hired brings a completely different background to the table, which is a better fit with what the football team needs at the moment, and has nothing to do with skin color.

What's really sad is Flores would have been considered a top candidate for any open coaching job next year, and potentially ended up in a better situation than the Giants - even though his run in Miami wasn't exactly great. Had he made the playoffs this year, he would not have been fired.

And sometimes, a long shot interview change things. In 2008, Don Mattingley was a shoe in for the Yankees manager job. Yankee legend and Joe Torre's current bench coach who was being groomed for the job. But the Yankees interviewed a few other candidates, weather it was a sham, due diligence, showing the owner you interviewed more people, whatever. Joe Giradri was so impressive in his sham interview that he got the job.