Former Miami Dolphins HC Brian Flores SUES the NFL FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION;owner offered HC $100k per loss 4 draft

[SSUBluesman]

Stop making **** up man

I don't think it has been openly talked about for maybe 20 years, but it was openly talked about as recently as the late 90s.

Ya the 90’s not ten years ago

In 2003 Rush Limbaugh (may he Rest In Piss) said this:

"Sorry to say this, I don't think he's been that good from the get-go," Limbaugh
said. "I think what we've had here is a little social concern in
the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback
do well. There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a
lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't
deserve. The defense carried this team."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=1627887

As recently as 2018 there was constant discussion about Lamar Jackson converting to WR due to concerns that he couldn't hack it as a QB. Often times "accuracy" and "mechanics" were used as justification for this position. Meanwhile Josh Allen, despite his own accuracy issues, was never talked about as having to move to WR or TE. He was talked about as being "raw" or his poor completion % chalked up to poor support around him, while Lamar was criticized for mechanics and footwork, often in level of detail not seen with Allen. Here are some examples:

"His tape speaks volumes, but staffs can't see beyond their biases," one NFC scout told Bleacher Report. "He's black and athletic. Bias tells you he has to prove to you that he is smart enough. And if he can't, he's more valuable somewhere else because he's athletic. Lamar has to be twice as good, both mentally and physically. And he still can get Deshaun Watson'ed."

"[He's] short and a little bit slight, and clearly, clearly not the thrower that the other guys are," Polian, a current ESPN analyst, said on Golic and Wingo in February. "The accuracy isn't there. So I would say don't wait to make that change [to receiver]."

"Stats are for losers, in my opinion. The guy won," ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. said on a January conference call when asked about Allen's completion percentage. A month later, when asked why he doesn't believe Jackson is a first-rounder, Kiper responded, "It's the accuracy throwing the football."

A discrepancy still exists in the language used to describe black and white quarterbacks. Just last year, as evaluators debated between Deshaun Watson and Mitchell Trubisky, the Washington Post studied NFL draft profiles and "found substantial racial differences in the language used to describe quarterback prospects—differences that are consistent with established racial stereotypes."

It notes how a white quarterback is more likely to be discussed by citing "intangible internal qualities for which he himself is responsible." However, a black quarterback is more often viewed by his physical characteristics, "to be judged erratic and unpredictable, and to have his successes and failures ascribed to outside forces."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2766425-ditch-the-racially-coded-language-lamar-jackson-is-no-ones-wide-receiver

About Josh Allen:
Kiper's draft ranking: No. 1 QB and No. 4 overall prospect. From Kiper's Mock Draft 1.0: "His numbers aren't impressive, I know. But the NFL is all about projection, and he has a high ceiling. Coaches want to work with Allen because he has all of the tools."

McShay's draft ranking: No. 3 QB and No. 16 overall prospect. From McShay's Top 32: "He has an elite arm and frame and can make every throw. The postseason process will be key for him."

"Coaches are going to see this guy and imagine everything he can be, and they're going to be all over their front offices to take him. He's just really raw, so you have to make sure he goes to a place where the coaching is solid and knows what he needs. The talent is all there." -- AFC front-office official.

About Lamar Jackson:
Kiper's draft ranking: No. 6 QB. From Kiper's take on the Heisman finalists: "From the NFL scouts I've talked to, I think teams are going to ask Jackson to work out as a quarterback and a receiver. They want to see if he could make the transition if he didn't develop enough as a QB."

McShay's draft ranking: No. 7 QB and No. 92 overall prospect. From McShay's preseason scouting report: "Jackson needs to continue to improve his accuracy as a passer. That's the bottom line. Right now, he's a phenomenal college quarterback mostly due to his running skills and athleticism."

"The physical abilities are off the charts. Huge arm, incredible speed. Just an athlete, plain and simple. You'd like to see more consistent accuracy from the pocket, but that can be cleaned up with some work on his mechanics. The big concern is whether he can hold up if he does as much running at the next level." -- AFC front-office official.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/21836489/2018-nfl-draft-quarterback-class-preview-background-scouting-reports-pro-fits

[lobosloboslobos]

wow. so many people in this thead willing to look the other way, to pretend, rationalize, excuse and deny stuff that is literally baked into the system and as obvious as it could possibly be. so many pathetic arguments presented, so many defensive distractions. what a joke. what a sad, crappy joke.

[MotownMadness]

Getting paid extra to lose, NFL is probably gonna start a lottery system or something.

[KingDavid]

Spoiler:

Trying to be sensitive here, but I don't necessarily understand how the Giants hiring Dabroll over Flores is discrimination. Look at the background of both coaches and you understand why, for football reasons, the Giants went with a different background and skillset than what Flores brings to the table:

1) The Giants decided to pass on Flores, a coach with a defensive background, to hire Dabroll, a coach with an offensive background who is coming off a run in Buffalo developing one of the top young QB's in the league. The Giants have a QB that they used a top 7 pick on a few years ago who has had mixed results at best so it is understandable that the Giants went with an offensive coach over a defensive coach.

2) Dabroll has a working relationship with the new GM, Flores does not. It's understandable that any person, in any field, would lean towards hiring someone he has a personal relationship with.

3) Both coordinators that Dabroll has hired are African American and the Giants had an African American GM for 10 years. So the Giants don't really have a track record of discrimination, it's actually anything but.

So when I look at that fact pattern, it makes a lot of sense that the Giants picked a head coach with expertise on the offensive side of the ball who has worked with the new GM for years over an outsider defensive coach.

I get it, there are not enough African American head coaches in the league relative to the percentage of African American players in the league. And the same can be said about front office positions and coordinators. But I don't see how Brian Flores is a victim of discrimination here. Honestly, cases like this hurt the anti discrimination push, because the coach the Giants hired brings a completely different background to the table, which is a better fit with what the football team needs at the moment, and has nothing to do with skin color.

What's really sad is Flores would have been considered a top candidate for any open coaching job next year, and potentially ended up in a better situation than the Giants - even though his run in Miami wasn't exactly great. Had he made the playoffs this year, he would not have been fired.

And sometimes, a long shot interview change things. In 2008, Don Mattingley was a shoe in for the Yankees manager job. Yankee legend and Joe Torre's current bench coach who was being groomed for the job. But the Yankees interviewed a few other candidates, weather it was a sham, due diligence, showing the owner you interviewed more people, whatever. Joe Giradri was so impressive in his sham interview that he got the job

.

The problem in that situation is not that Daboll was hired. It's that two external minorities were not interviewed before giving Daboll the job. As it's a civil suit, circumstantial evidence; (BB mistakenly texting Brian Flores congratulations on securing the position before Flores even had the interview) could be enough for the lawsuit to go through.

The bigger problem is the bribery allegations against Stephen Ross.

[TimeisIllmatic]

The thing I had the biggest issue with was Flores interviewing for the DEN job and DEN front office showing up super late and apparently very hungover. That is a huge disrespect to Flores and shows that DEN didn't care at all to get to know him or see if he was a candidate they would want to hire.

According to Denver they were in a late interview and landed just in time to make the interview and say they have proof that they were there and on time.

That's reassuring to hear then. It will be interesting to see the conclusion of this whole situation.

[R-DAWG]

Spoiler:

Trying to be sensitive here, but I don't necessarily understand how the Giants hiring Dabroll over Flores is discrimination. Look at the background of both coaches and you understand why, for football reasons, the Giants went with a different background and skillset than what Flores brings to the table:

1) The Giants decided to pass on Flores, a coach with a defensive background, to hire Dabroll, a coach with an offensive background who is coming off a run in Buffalo developing one of the top young QB's in the league. The Giants have a QB that they used a top 7 pick on a few years ago who has had mixed results at best so it is understandable that the Giants went with an offensive coach over a defensive coach.

2) Dabroll has a working relationship with the new GM, Flores does not. It's understandable that any person, in any field, would lean towards hiring someone he has a personal relationship with.

3) Both coordinators that Dabroll has hired are African American and the Giants had an African American GM for 10 years. So the Giants don't really have a track record of discrimination, it's actually anything but.

So when I look at that fact pattern, it makes a lot of sense that the Giants picked a head coach with expertise on the offensive side of the ball who has worked with the new GM for years over an outsider defensive coach.

I get it, there are not enough African American head coaches in the league relative to the percentage of African American players in the league. And the same can be said about front office positions and coordinators. But I don't see how Brian Flores is a victim of discrimination here. Honestly, cases like this hurt the anti discrimination push, because the coach the Giants hired brings a completely different background to the table, which is a better fit with what the football team needs at the moment, and has nothing to do with skin color.

What's really sad is Flores would have been considered a top candidate for any open coaching job next year, and potentially ended up in a better situation than the Giants - even though his run in Miami wasn't exactly great. Had he made the playoffs this year, he would not have been fired.

And sometimes, a long shot interview change things. In 2008, Don Mattingley was a shoe in for the Yankees manager job. Yankee legend and Joe Torre's current bench coach who was being groomed for the job. But the Yankees interviewed a few other candidates, weather it was a sham, due diligence, showing the owner you interviewed more people, whatever. Joe Giradri was so impressive in his sham interview that he got the job

.

The problem in that situation is not that Daboll was hired. It's that two external minorities were not interviewed before giving Daboll the job. As it's a civil suit, circumstantial evidence; (BB mistakenly texting Brian Flores congratulations on securing the position before Flores even had the interview) could be enough for the lawsuit to go through.

The bigger problem is the bribery allegations against Stephen Ross.

We don't know that Dabroll was officially offered the job before the in person interview with Flores. I actually think Flores was ownerships first choice, but they deferred to the GM, which I think is the right thing to do.

Regarding the bribery allegations against Stephen Ross - he plays in a division where the Patriots are pushing the limits of operating in the gray area, and he wanted to do the same. In theory, it was to Flores benefit if Miami ended up with the #1 overall pick, and the 1st pick in each subsequent round. I'm a Jets fan and I wish my owner bribed Adam Gase to lose games so we would have Trevor Lawrence.

[LAL1947]

Summarizing Shannon Sharpe in January 2022 (main bits from 2:46):

"Cooper Kupp can't be the best WR in the NFL even though he's had a record breaking season because he's a slot receiver, because Davante Adams has had more production in previous years, yada, yada, yada... and Kupp is a white player in a predominantly black position... just like how we look at Christian McCaffrey, I mean there's not a whole lot of white running backs in the HOF".

Skip Bayless nods along, saying... "Sometimes stereotypes are just facts". (Obviously trying to say that Kupp is not as athletic as his black counterparts, therefore the stereotype is a fact.)

Yet not a peep was heard anywhere. Not even by those expressing outrage in here over Lamar Jackson's throwing game being rightfully called out for not being very good (compared to other elite QBs) while Lamar is simultaneously lauded for having a great running game. The hypocrisy of it all.

Watch on YouTube

Say it with me folks, racism is bad and race-baiting is bad too.

[Pointgod]

wow. so many people in this thead willing to look the other away, to pretend, rationalize, excuse and deny stuff that is literally baked into the system and as obvious as it could possibly be. so many pathetic arguments presented, so many defensive distractions. what a joke. what a sad, crappy joke.

First time in a race thread on the general board I take it?

[alebaba]

How is this even RACIAL DISCRIMINATION? lol

[celtics543]

I understand the general point but Lamar Jackson being told he might have to switch to another position because of poor mechanics and bad footwork isn't a race thing. Tim Tebow and Eric Crouch were told the same thing. Tebow was a playoff qb who won a playoff game and Crouch was a Heisman winning qb. Sometimes, regardless of race, players games don't translate to success at the next level. Lamar had a great year but I can see the skepticism in his abilities throwing the ball.

[FrodoFraggins]

so billionaire owners, desperate to win, use meritocracy when it comes to choosing players, but suddenly that goes out the window when choosing coaches? okay

So why does the NFL have an issue hiring black head coaches then?

If the pool of black coaching candidates are coming from former players, maybe their skill sets don't align with being a head coach? Running 4.4 with great lateral quickness has nothing to do with being a leader, having good communication skills and being smart. Maybe black coaches at the high school and collegiate level are more defensive orientated which isn't in vogue right now? So as they rise in the ranks, they eventually reach a point where the number of teams willing to hire a defensive HC is limited? Maybe they aren't interviewing well when they get these chance? Maybe they have failed to network well during their stops along the way? Maybe, and I think this is the big one, all these white guys who didn't play, but are super smart, willing and driven, were afforded the ability to work for peanuts while they paid their dues because they had more support than black men who might otherwise be interested in pursuing coaching? You hear all the time about these guys working 60 hour weeks, making nothing, paying their dues for years until they finally get a break. Maybe that's a much more difficult proposition for black men? Maybe black, former players, used to the good life, aren't willing to grind as a low level coach and work their way up after retirement. Maybe they're more interested in getting media jobs instead? Look at Deion. He could have gone right into coaching and by now would certainly have been given an opportunity had he had some success but for a decade he worked in the media instead. Reich had to do internships for a couple years, became an assistant, then QB coach, then WR coach, then OC and the finally HC after paying dues for 10 years. Rivera went into broadcasting for a few years. But then he got into coaching becoming first an LB coach for several years, then DC and then HC...12 years after starting his coaching career. Whereas Deion decided to be an NFL analyst for a decade until he became a HS coach and finally a college HC, 8 years after getting into coaching. If he had embraced coaching earlier, undoubtedly he would have already been a HC or a candidate by now.

I'm not sure there even IS an issue. Hire who you believe is the best candidate. If that happens to be a black guy then great. All I'm positive about is, if an owner felt that a a black man was the best candidate, they'd hire him. Especially in light of the draft pick compensation attached to it. Who are these incredible black HC candidates people think should be getting hired? Bieniemy with his past legal issues, reportedly awful in interviews and concerns he doesn't really call the plays? Leftwich (who has been offered a job btw) who has never been a HC at any level and is possibly a product of Tom Brady? Todd Bowles who got cooked in the playoffs? Leslie Frazier who got cooked in the playoffs? Hue Jackson? Brian Flores who failed to get the Dolphins into the playoffs, has a crappy personality and poor leadership and communication skills? Patrick Graham who has been awful at every stop? And who are these hot black college coaches who want to go to the NFL that aren't getting hired? Who are these great young offensive minded black coordinators that being passed on? Who are these black coaches, that when given the opportunity to be head coaches, beyond a few, that have lit the world on fire and are helping to change the supposed narrative? It'd be one thing if there was a glut of really intriguing candidates and they were getting passed over but that's not the case.

You've got some borderline racist stuff in that post.

I'm just gonna block you and be done with you.

[The Rebel]

Summarizing Shannon Sharpe in January 2022 (main bits from 2:46):

"Cooper Kupp can't be the best WR in the NFL even though he's had a record breaking season because he's a slot receiver, because Davante Adams has had more production in previous years, yada, yada, yada... and Kupp is a white player in a predominantly black position... just like how we look at Christian McCaffrey, I mean there's not a whole lot of white running backs in the HOF".

Skip Bayless nods along, saying... "Sometimes stereotypes are just facts". (Obviously trying to say that Kupp is not as athletic as his black counterparts, therefore the stereotype is a fact.)

Yet not a peep was heard anywhere. Not even by those expressing outrage in here over Lamar Jackson's throwing game being rightfully called out for not being very good (compared to other elite QBs) while Lamar is simultaneously lauded for having a great running game. The hypocrisy of it all.

Watch on YouTube

Say it with me folks, racism is bad and race-baiting is bad too.

I think it is obvious that there are people around sports that are racist against white guys, including the NBA. The thing about it is that most of those racist against whites do not have the power to affect those white guys job opportunities.

[LAKESHOW]

Ex Cleveland Coach Hugh Jackson made allegations that he was asked to Tank. His record as a Head Coach? 11-44-1. He will never coach again. They will always point to that record.
Flores was correct in not trying to Tank. He would've been ruined as a Coach

[harlem_ball]

As a Dolphins fan I really think they should have tanked. That win streak was useless. The team was not good

Ross was right. .

[LAKESHOW]

Ross was right. .

Justin Herbert plays for the Chargers. Lol

[harlem_ball]

At this point the Dolphins should find a new owner and change their unis back to the 70s style.

Erase this new logo era from the record.

[carrrnuttt]

Read on Twitter

[harlem_ball]

LeBron X should buy the Dolphins

[KingDavid]

Spoiler:

Trying to be sensitive here, but I don't necessarily understand how the Giants hiring Dabroll over Flores is discrimination. Look at the background of both coaches and you understand why, for football reasons, the Giants went with a different background and skillset than what Flores brings to the table:

1) The Giants decided to pass on Flores, a coach with a defensive background, to hire Dabroll, a coach with an offensive background who is coming off a run in Buffalo developing one of the top young QB's in the league. The Giants have a QB that they used a top 7 pick on a few years ago who has had mixed results at best so it is understandable that the Giants went with an offensive coach over a defensive coach.

2) Dabroll has a working relationship with the new GM, Flores does not. It's understandable that any person, in any field, would lean towards hiring someone he has a personal relationship with.

3) Both coordinators that Dabroll has hired are African American and the Giants had an African American GM for 10 years. So the Giants don't really have a track record of discrimination, it's actually anything but.

So when I look at that fact pattern, it makes a lot of sense that the Giants picked a head coach with expertise on the offensive side of the ball who has worked with the new GM for years over an outsider defensive coach.

I get it, there are not enough African American head coaches in the league relative to the percentage of African American players in the league. And the same can be said about front office positions and coordinators. But I don't see how Brian Flores is a victim of discrimination here. Honestly, cases like this hurt the anti discrimination push, because the coach the Giants hired brings a completely different background to the table, which is a better fit with what the football team needs at the moment, and has nothing to do with skin color.

What's really sad is Flores would have been considered a top candidate for any open coaching job next year, and potentially ended up in a better situation than the Giants - even though his run in Miami wasn't exactly great. Had he made the playoffs this year, he would not have been fired.

And sometimes, a long shot interview change things. In 2008, Don Mattingley was a shoe in for the Yankees manager job. Yankee legend and Joe Torre's current bench coach who was being groomed for the job. But the Yankees interviewed a few other candidates, weather it was a sham, due diligence, showing the owner you interviewed more people, whatever. Joe Giradri was so impressive in his sham interview that he got the job

.

The problem in that situation is not that Daboll was hired. It's that two external minorities were not interviewed before giving Daboll the job. As it's a civil suit, circumstantial evidence; (BB mistakenly texting Brian Flores congratulations on securing the position before Flores even had the interview) could be enough for the lawsuit to go through.

The bigger problem is the bribery allegations against Stephen Ross.

We don't know that Dabroll was officially offered the job before the in person interview with Flores. I actually think Flores was ownerships first choice, but they deferred to the GM, which I think is the right thing to do.

Regarding the bribery allegations against Stephen Ross - he plays in a division where the Patriots are pushing the limits of operating in the gray area, and he wanted to do the same. In theory, it was to Flores benefit if Miami ended up with the #1 overall pick, and the 1st pick in each subsequent round. I'm a Jets fan and I wish my owner bribed Adam Gase to lose games so we would have Trevor Lawrence.

In the court of law, you're correct, we don't know. But the evidence of BB sending that text could be enough for litigation, which is what is in question. Different set of rules and circumstances here.

I get as fans why we'd want that, but that is illegal. It's straight up bribery. Not to mention the tax implications of not reporting 100k every loss. There's potential for legal ramifications here. If you want to tank, you hire a sorry ass coach and trade your talent. They're contracted to try their best to win with the talent they have, not throw games and ruin the integrity of the game.

The lawsuit is occurring because the Rooney rule was broken.

[Dr Positivity]

I generally think there's a lot of factors to consider, but one that stands out as crazy to me is Eric Bienemy not getting hired. The Superbowl vs the 49ers should've been one of those where the assistant has already been hired as head coach for someone.