Who should win MVP?

Post #41 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Jan 3, 2015 7:05 pm

ash_k wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
The Pats didn't look too elite the first half of the season either. Last year the Pats had a cake schedule in a crap division. This year it was a bit tougher and better. Make no mistake, Brady is a stud, but he hasn't had an MVP year. And often times great qbs make receivers what they are...not vice versa. For whatever reason, Brady doesn't seem to have this impact on receivers.

Rodgers had a much better year, as did Romo, but I still think Watt is the most deserving.

yet again the Pats are the number one seed! I wonder how many times had to go through Manning/Luck/Stafford/Rodgers/Rivers..
You must have missed the last 14 years of Brady...Brady has turned no name receivers into stars...the last 2 years, he has turned a former QB into a top receiver..Lafell was just the other guy with the Panthers then Brady has turned him into a 1000-yard receiver/big playmaker.
Great receivers find their ways regardless of the QB as long as they are targeted..as an example Randy Moss dominated as a rookie even though all of the deep balls were underthrown.

Brady played with a shaky O-Line, no established receiver/Gronk coming back from ACL/his #1 RB down with ACL and in spite of ALL that, he finished the season as the number seed He must the MVP in the league...

Rodgers has had the same consistent weapon all year Nelson/Cobb/Lacy..then looked like Peyton against the Seahawks..

Advantage Brady!

You keep saying Brady goes through these guys. No, his D shuts those guys down. They held SD to 7 points and many of those other teams to low point totals. Brady isn't asked to do as much because their D is playing strong. He doesn't HAVE to do as much as guys like Rodgers and Romo who have crappy Ds.

ash_k · Post #42 » by **ash_k** » Sat Jan 3, 2015 8:21 pm

43 points against the Broncos
42 points against the Colts
43 points against the Bengals
34 points against the Lions (just by throwing as nobody has run on the Lions)

Before the last 2 games, New England was the highest scoring team in the league! ( I believe)
All playoff teams!

Sure the D is better, Revis and Browner have been important signings (particularly for the playoffs and the Broncos)

Post #43 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Jan 3, 2015 10:19 pm

ash_k wrote:43 points against the Broncos
42 points against the Colts
43 points against the Bengals
34 points against the Lions (just by throwing as nobody has run on the Lions)

Before the last 2 games, New England was the highest scoring team in the league! ( I believe)
All playoff teams!

Sure the D is better, Revis and Browner have been important signings (particularly for the playoffs and the Broncos)

Great D's allow you to score a lot of points. You force enough three and outs and get all those opportunities, the opposing D gets tired and wears down.

Look, Brady is a great qb. But the only person I've seen mention him as an MVP at this point is you and a couple others in this thread. Heck, homer of all homers Bill Simmons isn't even mentioning him.

He is probably top 5 for mvp. I'd rank them like this:

Watt
Rodgers
Romo
Ben
Brady/Bell/Murray in some order

Romo and Ben get hurt some because they had the two best rbs in the league. So I could see an argument to place Brady 3rd because of that, but not above the top two. Not this year.

ash_k · Post #44 » by **ash_k** » Sat Jan 3, 2015 11:35 pm

Great D's allow you to score a lot of points. You force enough three and outs and get all those opportunities, the opposing D gets tired and wears down.

nice sounding general statement.But not reality.

for example when you watch those games, New England would usually smack those teams in the mouth early and rapidly(letting them know "you have no chance against us"

) hence forcing those teams to be one dimensional which as you know makes any team much easier to defend regardless of the level of your D.

Brady has been in the conversation all along:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12036 ... rco-murray

IMO, Romo cannot be the MVP if he is not even the most valuable player on his team.

Brady or Rodgers...will wait and see who wins!

Post #45 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 1:23 am

ash_k wrote:
Great D's allow you to score a lot of points. You force enough three and outs and get all those opportunities, the opposing D gets tired and wears down.

nice sounding general statement.But not reality.

for example when you watch those games, New England would usually smack those teams in the mouth early and rapidly(letting them know "you have no chance against us" ) hence forcing those teams to be one dimensional which as you know makes any team much easier to defend regardless of the level of your D.

Brady has been in the conversation all along:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12036 ... rco-murray

IMO, Romo cannot be the MVP if he is not even the most valuable player on his team.

Brady or Rodgers...will wait and see who wins!

So in that poll Brady was third, but Watt and Rodgers had amazing weeks the last two weeks. I can't recall specifically, but it seems Brady had some subpar games (I have him in fantasy and was surprised at his low point totals).

Brady was in the conversation early, but all the recent articles I've read seem to think it's between Rodgers and Watt. Brady could get it I suppose due to east coast bias though.

bluejerseyjinx · Post #46 » by **bluejerseyjinx** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 4:45 am

ash_k wrote:he really should not!...too many offense pro bowlers on that team to be the MVP ,IMO..either Brady or Rodgers!

Brady. Your kidding right? Without gronk you would have lost more games like you did in K.C. early in the year. Plus Brady has played in the biggest candy-assed division and conference for the past 13 years. You patriot fans truly live in a idealistic world. Maybe with another spy gate though you guys can go to the super bowl one :lol:

more time and then become the only team to lose 5 super bowls.

ash_k · Post #47 » by **ash_k** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 6:03 pm

bluejerseyjinx wrote:Brady. Your kidding right? Without gronk you would have lost more games like you did in K.C. early in the year. Plus Brady has played in the biggest candy-assed division and conference for the past 13 years. You patriot fans truly live in a idealistic world. Maybe with another spy gate though you guys can go to the super bowl one more time and then become the only team to lose 5 super bowls.

"Idealist world" coming from a Dallas Cowboys fan does not sound quite right lol....Your Cowboys have been fighting so hard from Week1 to Week17 the last few that you have not had time to keep up with the winning teams or else you would know that Brady carried a weaker New England team to the AFC Championship last year without Gronk and with a former QB as his number one Receiver!

just pray for your Cowboys today...

anyway! RIP Stuart Scott

Sixteen · Post #48 » by **Sixteen** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 7:00 pm

No. Rodgers is the clear MVP

Post #49 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 9:58 pm

On mmqb, they polled a group of writers, players, respected nfl analysts, etc, and came up with 26 people's votes.

The Panel

The MMQB (5): Greg Bedard, Andy Benoit, Peter King, Robert Klemko, Jenny Vrentas
The Players (3): Ryan Clark, Washington; Jason McCourty, Titans; Geoff Schwartz, Giants
The ex-NFLers (5): Trent Dilfer, former quarterback; Scott Fujita, former linebacker; Steve Gleason, former safety; Scot McLoughlan, former GM; Ross Tucker, former lineman
The Analytics Crowd (5): Khaled Elsayed, Pro Football Focus; Neil Hornsby, Pro Football Focus; Aaron Schatz, Football Outsiders; Alex Stern, Elias Sports Bureau; Ben Stockwell, Pro Football Focus
The Media (8): Albert Breer, NFL Network; Kevin Clark, Wall Street Journal; Steve Cohen, Sirius XM NFL Radio; Rich Eisen, NFL Network; Alex Flanagan, NFL Network; Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk; Tom Pelissero, USA Today; Mike Silver, NFL Network

I had the 26 voters pick their top five in six categories: MVP, offensive and defensive rookies of the year, coach of the year, assistant coach of the year and executive of the year. I awarded seven points for a first-place vote, five for second-place, three for third-place, two for fourth-place, and one for fifth-place.

The headline: Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers is The MMQB’s MVP, receiving 15.5 of our 26 first-place votes. Maybe the bigger headline, though, is who’s number two. Watt finished second, with 8.5 first-place votes. Interestingly, our three active players—Clark, McCourty and Schwartz—all voted Watt. “If Watt, who is a once-in-a-generation player, doesn’t win the MVP this season, then no defensive player will ever win,” Schwartz said. “The game is built for offense, and he still totally dominated.”

The two other first place mvp votes went to Luck and Murray.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/30/nfl-award ... kie-coach/

bluejerseyjinx · Post #50 » by **bluejerseyjinx** » Mon Jan 5, 2015 2:57 am

ash_k wrote:
bluejerseyjinx wrote:Brady. Your kidding right? Without gronk you would have lost more games like you did in K.C. early in the year. Plus Brady has played in the biggest candy-assed division and conference for the past 13 years. You patriot fans truly live in a idealistic world. Maybe with another spy gate though you guys can go to the super bowl one more time and then become the only team to lose 5 super bowls.

"Idealist world" coming from a Dallas Cowboys fan does not sound quite right lol....Your Cowboys have been fighting so hard from Week1 to Week17 the last few that you have not had time to keep up with the winning teams or else you would know that Brady carried a weaker New England team to the AFC Championship last year without Gronk and with a former QB as his number one Receiver!

just pray for your Cowboys today...

anyway! RIP Stuart Scott

I hear you guys everyday living here in New England. Yes we usually fight harder week in and week out because the NFC is a far superior division. Do your home work. Look what happens in the super bowl to an undefeated, untested and not battle tested team. Opps, you have, sorry.

InsideOut · Post #51 » by **InsideOut** » Mon Jan 5, 2015 3:43 am

Rodgers.

Just look at what the Pack did when he was out last season. 6 - 2 with him and 2 - 6 without him. That has MVP written all over it.

Higga · Post #52 » by **Higga** » Mon Jan 5, 2015 3:54 pm

With Rodgers the Packers can win it all. Without him they'd go 4-12 and struggle to win 4.

jon33km · Post #53 » by **jon33km** » Mon Jan 5, 2015 9:54 pm

Why is Brady not in the poll options? What about Antonio Brown?

ash_k · Post #54 » by **ash_k** » Tue Jan 6, 2015 12:07 am

bluejerseyjinx wrote:
ash_k wrote:
bluejerseyjinx wrote:Brady. Your kidding right? Without gronk you would have lost more games like you did in K.C. early in the year. Plus Brady has played in the biggest candy-assed division and conference for the past 13 years. You patriot fans truly live in a idealistic world. Maybe with another spy gate though you guys can go to the super bowl one more time and then become the only team to lose 5 super bowls.

"Idealist world" coming from a Dallas Cowboys fan does not sound quite right lol....Your Cowboys have been fighting so hard from Week1 to Week17 the last few that you have not had time to keep up with the winning teams or else you would know that Brady carried a weaker New England team to the AFC Championship last year without Gronk and with a former QB as his number one Receiver!

just pray for your Cowboys today...

anyway! RIP Stuart Scott

I hear you guys everyday living here in New England. Yes we usually fight harder week in and week out because the NFC is a far superior division. Do your home work. Look what happens in the super bowl to an undefeated, untested and not battle tested team. Opps, you have, sorry.

Are you referring to a Helmet catch?! Thanks.
anyway, let me know next time a QB goes through Manning 12-4/Luck 11-5/Stafford 11-5/Rodgers12-4/Rivers in succession and ends up 4-1..

bluejerseyjinx · Post #55 » by **bluejerseyjinx** » Tue Jan 6, 2015 6:24 am

ash_k wrote:
bluejerseyjinx wrote:
ash_k wrote:
"Idealist world" coming from a Dallas Cowboys fan does not sound quite right lol....Your Cowboys have been fighting so hard from Week1 to Week17 the last few that you have not had time to keep up with the winning teams or else you would know that Brady carried a weaker New England team to the AFC Championship last year without Gronk and with a former QB as his number one Receiver!

just pray for your Cowboys today...

anyway! RIP Stuart Scott

I hear you guys everyday living here in New England. Yes we usually fight harder week in and week out because the NFC is a far superior division. Do your home work. Look what happens in the super bowl to an undefeated, untested and not battle tested team. Opps, you have, sorry.

Are you referring to a Helmet catch?! Thanks.
anyway, let me know next time a QB goes through Manning 12-4/Luck 11-5/Stafford 11-5/Rodgers12-4/Rivers in succession and ends up 4-1..

And should you be fortunate to make it back to the super bowl and lose, the patsie's will be the first team to choke away 5 super bowl. Why don't you patsie fans like to talk about football before 2001. Is it because you were irrelevant and the laughing stalk of the AFC for43 years before you finally got the first one with spy gate? lmao

Post #56 » by **Bulltalk** » Tue Jan 6, 2015 9:41 pm

Russell Wilson easy. Seahawks won the Super Bowl last year as a number one seed, and they are the favorite to win it this year as a number one seed. The Seahawks wouldn't have even been in such discussions without Wilson at the helm.

ash_k · Post #57 » by **ash_k** » Wed Jan 7, 2015 4:27 am

@bluejerseyjinx
I see it has frustrated you to see the Patriots in 5 Superbowls while winning 3 of them, in the last 14 years...and all those AFC championship game. All good though
Just enjoy it! and I am not against a Patriots vs Cowboys on Feb 1st

RRyder823 · Post #58 » by **RRyder823** » Wed Jan 7, 2015 10:14 pm

Bulltalk wrote:Russell Wilson easy. Seahawks won the Super Bowl last year as a number one seed, and they are the favorite to win it this year as a number one seed. The Seahawks wouldn't have even been in such discussions without Wilson at the helm.

I like Wilson but he's in the same boat as Romo. That being he's not even the MVP of his own team. Lynch is more importent to that team n I might throw in Wagner n Thomas also.

Nobody but Cowboys fans should be saying Romo over Rodgers, Brady or Watt..... Yeah you guys were better the 8-8 and Romo played well in December finally... Sorry thats not an MVP.... Thats not choking down the stretch.

In a vacuum it prolly should be Watt but if you miss out on the playoffs you dont win MVP. Period.

So now we're down to Rodgers n Brady. Bradys greatness gets lost cause its considered old hat much the same as Rodgers wasnt in the conversation till after midseason despite great numbers. To me I think it comes down to Rodgers beating Brady earlier this year. Yes in GB but a wins a win.

If the All-Pro ballets were any indication, (and you have to believe they are considering its the same people that vote on it), Rodgers will probably win the vote convincenly. Watts my number 2 but like I said you dont win this award missing the playoffs

LAKESHOW · Post #59 » by **LAKESHOW** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 12:18 am

This ones so easy. And you all missed it. Carson palmer. Look at his team without him? Easily the best record would have been attained with him. And those other guys have a supporting cast or star. Who does palmer have? So thos is a ridiculous question. Of course its Carson Palmer.

bluejerseyjinx · Post #60 » by **bluejerseyjinx** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 6:56 pm

ash_k wrote:@bluejerseyjinx
I see it has frustrated you to see the Patriots in 5 Superbowls while winning 3 of them, in the last 14 years...and all those AFC championship game. All good though
Just enjoy it! and I am not against a Patriots vs Cowboys on Feb 1st

That would please my mother who is a die-hard Patriot fan. LMAO. How else did you expect me to respond, being raised as a spoiled Cowboy fan in Maine since 1969, surrounded by Patriot, Giant and Dolphin fans in my family and community. A lot of annoying Giant fans here in Maine. Really have nothing against Patriots. Just call them on their bullchit once in a while. Total NFC guy here. See ya in the Super Bowl if you make it.

Who would you vote for MVP?