Former Miami Dolphins HC Brian Flores SUES the NFL FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION;owner offered HC $100k per loss 4 draft

[Lunartic]

Unless there's further information - this ain't evidence of racism. Paying a coach to lose games on purpose is just sad and probably unethical but whatever.

Ask yourself, the owners of the NFL teams are businessmen and have to answer to their shareholders. Do you really think that if there was some uber-qualified, competent HC candidate available but he happened to be black in a league dominated by black people, he wouldn't be hired? They only care about profit.

But now that Flores is apparently okay with leaking private text messages and communications, I'm sure a team would just love to hire him moving forward.

An owner paying a contracted coach to throw games affects other teams. To add money under the table to throw games in a league where gambling is being pushed? It's a little bit bigger than "whatever". If the offer was 100k per loss and he accepted it, well we lost 11 games that season. Was that gain reported to the IRS?

Yeah yeah you're not wrong, it's a big deal technically, It's whatever to me though. Is it really much different than an NBA team hiring Brett Brown and giving him a bad roster? He's getting paid a salary to do a job.

[azcatz11]

The John Elway anecdote is going to kill this. I really have no idea why that was included.

Fill me in like craig david. I didn't see that part

How long have you been waiting for to use that line? lol.

Basically, Elway showed up hungover to interview Flores. Just seems trivial to the entire lawsuit. I'm no lawyer though

[Quattro]

Is there racism there? How can you say no? They’re so bad they force teams to interview black coaches and still there is currently one black head coach. It’s hilarious people are even asking this question when I’m old enough to remember black QBs being controversial in this league.

Having said that, Flores won’t win his case. NFL just has too much money and power and I don’t see how he’s going to be able to prove that racism was behind his firing and lack of work.

you mean black qb's were controversial in the 60's and earlier right?....right?

No I was talking about the 70s and 80s. It’s why I got to enjoy watching a hall of fame QB like Warren Moon dominate the CFL for 5 years because he played the “wrong position”.

[KingDavid]

I’m waiting to see actual evidence to come out about the owner bribing him to lose games. I assume if he has evidence for that, that owner will be forced to sell the team (rightfully so).

I get the point of all of this. What I’m saying is, if you’re going to bring a law suit, you better have some actual evidence of discrimination. It seems like the only evidence being shown at the moment is him knowing the Giants already chose Daboll before interviewing Flores and his allegations about Miami (which is a different situation all together).

It’s a civil suit, he doesn’t need “actual evidence” to prove it happened without doubt like a criminal matter requires. Circumstantial evidence to show that it probably happened will suffice.

Sure but this is lacking even circumstantial evidence. All we have is the Giants had made up their mind on who they wanted as their next coach before completely all of their interviews. That isn’t even enough for a civil suit.

I would hope his legal team would have enough evidence in general to even head to litigation. These accusations would end his professional career in sports if he doesn't have proof behind these statements (regarding Stephen Ross).

[falcolombardi]

Is there racism there? How can you say no? They’re so bad they force teams to interview black coaches and still there is currently one black head coach. It’s hilarious people are even asking this question when I’m old enough to remember black QBs being controversial in this league.

Having said that, Flores won’t win his case. NFL just has too much money and power and I don’t see how he’s going to be able to prove that racism was behind his firing and lack of work.

you mean black qb's were controversial in the 60's and earlier right?....right?

No I was talking about the 70s and 80s. It’s why I got to enjoy watching a hall of fame QB like Warren Moon dominate the CFL for 5 years because he played the “wrong position”.

jesus....so people in the freaking 80's were still like "are black peopke smart enough to throw balls in the air?

[Marvin Martian]

Unless there's further information - this ain't evidence of racism. Paying a coach to lose games on purpose is just sad and probably unethical but whatever.

Ask yourself, the owners of the NFL teams are businessmen and have to answer to their shareholders. Do you really think that if there was some uber-qualified, competent HC candidate available but he happened to be black in a league dominated by black people, he wouldn't be hired? They only care about profit.

But now that Flores is apparently okay with leaking private text messages and communications, I'm sure a team would just love to hire him moving forward.

I think Flores is trying to pull a Colin Kapernick, he thinks he isn't going to be head coach anyway he is going to milk this story and make a living doing something else

[Dominator83]

It's a more NFL specific thing, imo, than a Giants specific thing (but probably what spurred him to make his decision to file a class action). Part of a bigger picture of there only being one current black head coach despite there being a number of openings every offseason. Also the whole Dolphins owner bribing him to lose on purpose and be a fall guy seems like something that should be extremely punishable/made to lose the team.

Interestingly enough, this article came out a few days ago before any of this which highlights some issues that were already there:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/texans/article/black-nfl-head-coach-candidates-data-16815822.php

I’m waiting to see actual evidence to come out about the owner bribing him to lose games. I assume if he has evidence for that, that owner will be forced to sell the team (rightfully so).

I get the point of all of this. What I’m saying is, if you’re going to bring a law suit, you better have some actual evidence of discrimination. It seems like the only evidence being shown at the moment is him knowing the Giants already chose Daboll before interviewing Flores and his allegations about Miami (which is a different situation all together).

Yeah, the allegations against Stephen Ross, yikes. He's like a mega billionaire, I just can't see him slipping up and leaving a trail like that.

Yea if that turns up to be actually true, that's worse than anything the Hinkie era Sixers ever did. If that actually happened then yea he would need to be Donald Sterling'd.

Even funnier if it was this season, considering there aren't even any QBs in this draft to tank for

[Duke4life831]

The John Elway anecdote is going to kill this. I really have no idea why that was included.

Just seems like he’s going full guns blazing and bringing up every negative thing he has come across. I mean he’s even bringing up that the NFL owners treat the NFL like a plantation.

It really does seem like he has no intention on working in the NFL again.

[Quattro]

Is there racism there? How can you say no? They’re so bad they force teams to interview black coaches and still there is currently one black head coach. It’s hilarious people are even asking this question when I’m old enough to remember black QBs being controversial in this league.

Having said that, Flores won’t win his case. NFL just has too much money and power and I don’t see how he’s going to be able to prove that racism was behind his firing and lack of work.

They should start requiring interviews of Indian, Chinese, Korean, Russian, etc. coaches as well because I don’t think there any of those in the NFL.

Fantastic argument until you realize that almost 60% of the players in the league are black. How many Korean NFL players are there again? I can’t seem to remember.

[Marmoset]

So essentially they brought him in to interview for a job they had no intention of hiring him for. Very bad look, but I imagine it would very tough to prove discrimination in court even with that text.

The bribing to lose thing seems like far and away the most damning here. I can't imagine the reaction if something like that were exposed in the NBA.

The first part happens hundreds of times every day across many industries. I've been to interviews like this myself where they knew exactly who they wanted to hire before a single person was interviewed, but they had to go through the process because of either laws or company regulations.

There has to be more than that to show that there was discrimination. Maybe there is, it will come out if that's the case. But on it's own this is basically meaningless.

[Quattro]

The John Elway anecdote is going to kill this. I really have no idea why that was included.

Just seems like he’s going full guns blazing and bringing up every negative thing he has come across. I mean he’s even bringing up that the NFL owners treat the NFL like a plantation.

It really does seem like he has no intention on working in the NFL again.

That’s a given. He’s disclosed stuff about his owner paying him to tank and tamper with Brady. There’s zero chance anyone will hire him after this.

[KingDavid]

Unless there's further information - this ain't evidence of racism. Paying a coach to lose games on purpose is just sad and probably unethical but whatever.

Ask yourself, the owners of the NFL teams are businessmen and have to answer to their shareholders. Do you really think that if there was some uber-qualified, competent HC candidate available but he happened to be black in a league dominated by black people, he wouldn't be hired? They only care about profit.

But now that Flores is apparently okay with leaking private text messages and communications, I'm sure a team would just love to hire him moving forward.

An owner paying a contracted coach to throw games affects other teams. To add money under the table to throw games in a league where gambling is being pushed? It's a little bit bigger than "whatever". If the offer was 100k per loss and he accepted it, well we lost 11 games that season. Was that gain reported to the IRS?

Yeah yeah you're not wrong, it's a big deal technically, It's whatever to me though. Is it really much different than an NBA team hiring Brett Brown and giving him a bad roster? He's getting paid a salary to do a job.

Yes, you're contractually obligated to do your best to manage and win with the roster you have. If you aren't talented enough to win games and/or you don't have the talent to win games, that's fine, the expectations are low. But to be paid UNDER THE TABLE to lose (not defined under contract) is really bad. Because what's to stop refs from doing that? What's going to stop players? If we wanted to tank, the solution would have been to keep Adam Gase, not get a new coach looking to make his mark in the league. Because THAT could be used against him once Burrow was drafted. The owner could easily say, well, you sucked as coach so we're going to get one that's better with QBs or something. He was getting shafted either way it seems, if any of this is true.

[azcatz11]

The John Elway anecdote is going to kill this. I really have no idea why that was included.

Just seems like he’s going full guns blazing and bringing up every negative thing he has come across. I mean he’s even bringing up that the NFL owners treat the NFL like a plantation.

It really does seem like he has no intention on working in the NFL again.

So if he had gotten one of the 4 previous jobs he just interviewed for - he wouldn't have sued? Or he would have and filed a law suit while he was the HC?

Lol

[Lunartic]

Because what's to stop refs from doing that?

If you've seen any Nets/Hawks games, clearly nothing.

You make a fair point and I'll retract my earlier statement that it's not a big deal.

[Texas Chuck]

People are really missing the significance of this. By coming public with clear evidence of just what a mockery teams are making of hte Rooney Rule(something we've know forever but now he's forcing things), its showing the whole rule is worthless and that white owners are going to keep hiring white coaches they feel comfortable with which is denying opportunities to potentially qualifed candidates.

And the irony of the Rooney Rule coming from the Steelers owners who interviewed a black man seen as underqualified at the time but who blew them away and has now been their head coach forever and his next losing season will be his first one....

But you can see it itt, lots of white people simply don't believe the most qualified candidate can be a black man or that they deserve an actual opportunity to be considered instead of just a token check box.

Flores is going to lose, becaue too many people make too much money off the NFL and when you challenge the shield you lose. But he, like Kap is a good man for sacrificing his career for something bigger than just him. This will have an impact, especially if as this is a class action he can get others to join. Guys like Caldwell or Lewis or Dungy whose coaching careers are probably over anyway certainly have their own stories about being the token interview. As do countless assistants of course but many of them will be loathe to because it will derail their career.

This is real, and its a problem. It's not just oh we love this one coach. Access matters.

[KingDavid]

I’m waiting to see actual evidence to come out about the owner bribing him to lose games. I assume if he has evidence for that, that owner will be forced to sell the team (rightfully so).

I get the point of all of this. What I’m saying is, if you’re going to bring a law suit, you better have some actual evidence of discrimination. It seems like the only evidence being shown at the moment is him knowing the Giants already chose Daboll before interviewing Flores and his allegations about Miami (which is a different situation all together).

Yeah, the allegations against Stephen Ross, yikes. He's like a mega billionaire, I just can't see him slipping up and leaving a trail like that.

Yea if that turns up to be actually true, that's worse than anything the Hinkie era Sixers ever did. If that actually happened then yea he would need to be Donald Sterling'd.

Even funnier if it was this season, considering there aren't even any QBs in this draft to tank for

I believe the tank plan was to get Joe Burrow. Flores didn't lose like Ross wanted. So when it was time for us to pick, Flores wanted Herbert, Grier (GM) wanted Tua. Owner made the decision for Tua. Now I wonder if the motivation for picking Tua was sound. Interesting stuff.

[LikeABosh]

The John Elway anecdote is going to kill this. I really have no idea why that was included.

Fill me in like craig david. I didn't see that part

How long have you been waiting for to use that line? lol.

Basically, Elway showed up hungover to interview Flores. Just seems trivial to the entire lawsuit. I'm no lawyer though

I think his lawyers are trying to demonstrate a pattern of behavior. Both instances involving the Broncos and Giants imply that he wasn't taken seriously as a candidate and was only being interviewed to fulfill the Mooney rule.

[Lalouie]

everyone should have a chance to be mediocre.

5-11
10-6
9-8

flores has done so for three seasons. mediocrity is an equal opportunity fate. it affects the meat of the bell curve which is where flores is.

i think flores has gotten carried away after years @patriots

career records of ex-patriot asst coaches as HC,,,as of 2020 208-296-1

[shangrila]

People are really missing the significance of this. By coming public with clear evidence of just what a mockery teams are making of hte Rooney Rule(something we've know forever but now he's forcing things), its showing the whole rule is worthless and that white owners are going to keep hiring white coaches they feel comfortable with which is denying opportunities to potentially qualifed candidates.

And the irony of the Rooney Rule coming from the Steelers owners who interviewed a black man seen as underqualified at the time but who blew them away and has now been their head coach forever and his next losing season will be his first one....

But you can see it itt, lots of white people simply don't believe the most qualified candidate can be a black man or that they deserve an actual opportunity to be considered instead of just a token check box.

Flores is going to lose, becaue too many people make too much money off the NFL and when you challenge the shield you lose. But he, like Kap is a good man for sacrificing his career for something bigger than just him. This will have an impact, especially if as this is a class action he can get others to join. Guys like Caldwell or Lewis or Dungy whose coaching careers are probably over anyway certainly have their own stories about being the token interview. As do countless assistants of course but many of them will be loathe to because it will derail their career.

This is real, and its a problem. It's not just oh we love this one coach. Access matters.

Jesus that's a hell of a reach

[KingDavid]

everyone should have a chance to be mediocre.

5-11
10-6
9-8

flores has done so for three seasons. mediocrity is an equal opportunity fate. it affects the meat of the bell curve which is where flores is.

i think flores has gotten carried away after years @patriots

career records of ex-patriot asst coaches as HC,,,as of 2020 208-296-1

As a dolphins fan, that's not truthfully an accurate assessment of his coaching ability. He has his problems though. If his allegations against Ross are proven true, then there's the question of sabotage. That's a whole other can of worms I don't want to attempt to get into.