Former Miami Dolphins HC Brian Flores SUES the NFL FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION;owner offered HC $100k per loss 4 draft

[KingDavid]

Not at all, you have people itt being willfully obtuse about just hiring the "best candidate" when it's statistically impossible for 30 out of 32 head coaches to be white in a sport that's played 70% by minorities.

Or, say, 108 of 115 Supreme Court justices -- 94 percent -- having been white men over the course of history. It defies all logic that the "best candidates" would be that overwhelmingly skewed.

Just speaking statistics...
The

Spoiler:

US was founded in 1776.
Slavery was ended in 1863.
The United States is 246 years old.
Slavery ended 87 years into the existence of the United States.
Through 35.4% of the Unites States' existence, Slavery existed.
That is 64.6% of the existence, African American's were free.
There was obviously a very rough transitional period that exists to an extent to this day. (sorry, not statistical but accurate).
By simply, not historically accurate math, that would be about 75 (74.29 technically, but let's round up) Justices elected since slavery ended.
With 7 elected Justices, in that time period that is 9%.
The US population of African Americans is 13.4%.

The First African American Supreme Court Justice elected was in 1967.
That was 191 years or 77.6% of the US's existence.
That is completely **** up, but it is what it is and most people from prior to that are now dead.
Since then, (22.3% of the US's existence) 25.7% of the Judges elected, have been African American, almost double the African American population in the US today.

Not in any way racist, but looking at some of the numbers, while yes the US was very racist from the start and it didn't get much better until more recently, using the Supreme Court as logic is slightly misleading.

I will say, personally, I was somewhat baffled when I learned that the US population of African American's was only 13.4% and feel that most people feel that the number is far higher

.

Appreciate the analysis (I REALLY do), but let's try to stay on topic.

That goes for everyone.

[DavidSterned]

It would be pretty shocking that a legal team would take up such a huge case against Ross without some pretty damning evidence to back it up. It would be a career suicide type of move not only for Flores but them as well. Guess we'll have to see what surfaces because it has the potential to be pretty huge if it's true.

[Ckay]

After all these years.

Belichick still hates the Giants.

[TacoLord]

I don't understand how you can make the legal argument for "Racial Discrimination" when he's only being interviewed as a formality because he helps the Giants check a box based on his race. The Rooney Rule requires at least one minority be interviewed, and they probably had it on the schedule before making a formal announcement of selection.

It's a crappy thing to do, and a waste of Flores' time, but I don't think it amounts to legal discrimination. Sham interviews are a feature of the Rooney rule, not a bug. It should result in the Giants losing draft picks and/or being fined as penalty from the NFL. I don't see how that amounts to millions of dollars in damages being awarded to Brian Flores and whoever joins his Class Action. They need to prove a lot more than that a few pointless interviews took place.

[shangrila]

People are really missing the significance of this. By coming public with clear evidence of just what a mockery teams are making of hte Rooney Rule(something we've know forever but now he's forcing things), its showing the whole rule is worthless and that white owners are going to keep hiring white coaches they feel comfortable with which is denying opportunities to potentially qualifed candidates.

And the irony of the Rooney Rule coming from the Steelers owners who interviewed a black man seen as underqualified at the time but who blew them away and has now been their head coach forever and his next losing season will be his first one....

But you can see it itt, lots of white people simply don't believe the most qualified candidate can be a black man or that they deserve an actual opportunity to be considered instead of just a token check box.

Flores is going to lose, becaue too many people make too much money off the NFL and when you challenge the shield you lose. But he, like Kap is a good man for sacrificing his career for something bigger than just him. This will have an impact, especially if as this is a class action he can get others to join. Guys like Caldwell or Lewis or Dungy whose coaching careers are probably over anyway certainly have their own stories about being the token interview. As do countless assistants of course but many of them will be loathe to because it will derail their career.

This is real, and its a problem. It's not just oh we love this one coach. Access matters.

Jesus that's a hell of a reach

Not at all, you have people itt being willfully obtuse about just hiring the "best candidate" when it's statistically impossible for 30 out of 32 head coaches to be white in a sport that's played 70% by minorities.

And herein lies the problem; it is in no way, shape or form statistically impossible. Improbable? Maybe, but far, far from impossible.

Additionally, there's this weird assumption that because minorities are over-represented in certain sports that that should then translate to management/coaching. Even if there are transferable skills these are still different fields, so that over-representation was never guaranteed to translate nor is that a clear sign of racism.

But beyond all that, nobody in this thread (that I saw at least, though I'm happy to be proven wrong) stated anything close to "a black man can't be the most qualified candidate" or "deserve an actual opportunity" as Chuck said which is what I was clearly responding to. Simply asking where the racist discrimination has occurred IN THIS CASE doesn't make you a racist, nor does it mean people think racism doesn't exist.

Assuming not only that anyone who didn't immediately believe this is racism is not only racist themselves but also white is...disturbing, frankly, and why I tend to avoid political discussions these days.

EDIT: Just saw the mod post above. I'll leave my post as is as my response to being directly quoted but won't continue beyond it.

[XtremeDunkz]

This is a rooney rule problem, not a race problem. I don't know how you fix that rule however. Do you say minority candidates must be interviewed first? That doesn't seem right either. Idk. The rule has good intentions and I'm sure it's worked at points. But there's been plenty of times when teams have had to do token interviews, and that's not fun for anyone.

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[NZB2323]

People are really missing the significance of this. By coming public with clear evidence of just what a mockery teams are making of hte Rooney Rule(something we've know forever but now he's forcing things), its showing the whole rule is worthless and that white owners are going to keep hiring white coaches they feel comfortable with which is denying opportunities to potentially qualifed candidates.

And the irony of the Rooney Rule coming from the Steelers owners who interviewed a black man seen as underqualified at the time but who blew them away and has now been their head coach forever and his next losing season will be his first one....

But you can see it itt, lots of white people simply don't believe the most qualified candidate can be a black man or that they deserve an actual opportunity to be considered instead of just a token check box.

Flores is going to lose, becaue too many people make too much money off the NFL and when you challenge the shield you lose. But he, like Kap is a good man for sacrificing his career for something bigger than just him. This will have an impact, especially if as this is a class action he can get others to join. Guys like Caldwell or Lewis or Dungy whose coaching careers are probably over anyway certainly have their own stories about being the token interview. As do countless assistants of course but many of them will be loathe to because it will derail their career.

This is real, and its a problem. It's not just oh we love this one coach. Access matters.

Jesus that's a hell of a reach

Not at all, you have people itt being willfully obtuse about just hiring the "best candidate" when it's statistically impossible for 30 out of 32 head coaches to be white in a sport that's played 70% by minorities.

70% of NFL players may be minorities, but minorities, by definition, make up less of the population. The American population is only 13.4% black, and there are lots of white coaches who never played in the NFL. There are way more white football coaches than black football coaches in America because there’s way more white people in America than black people. 75% of the American population is white, including Hispanic white. 60% of the population is non Hispanic white.

I have no doubt there are some racists in the NFL, but
I’m not sure if this lawsuit will prove that. The Bears just hired a black GM who hired a white coach. Did racism play a role in the Bears deciding to hire a white coach?

[DaFan334]

Jesus that's a hell of a reach

Not at all, you have people itt being willfully obtuse about just hiring the "best candidate" when it's statistically impossible for 30 out of 32 head coaches to be white in a sport that's played 70% by minorities.

70% of NFL players may be minorities, but minorities, by definition, make up less of the population. The American population is only 13.4% black, and there are lots of white coaches who never played in the NFL. There are way more white football coaches than black football coaches in America because there’s way more white people in America than black people. 75% of the American population is white, including Hispanic white. 60% of the population is non Hispanic white.

I have no doubt there are some racists in the NFL, but
I’m not sure if this lawsuit will prove that. The Bears just hired a black GM who hired a white coach. Did racism play a role in the Bears deciding to hire a white coach?

Spoiler:

35% of assistant coaches are people of color from what I was able to find.

[Duke4life831]

Im just going to say this. I think the whole 70% of the players are black so the lack of head coaches being black is a problem, has one major flaw in it. The majority of coaches nowadays weren't NFL players, I believe 25 out of the 32 coaches last year never played in the NFL. And like 3 of the 7 that did, never played a game and got cut in training camp.

Im not even weighing in on some of the bigger topics going on in this thread. Just strictly speaking on seeing people (not just on here) continue to talk about the racial makeup of the players as it has some kind of connection to what the racial makeup of the coaches should be.

They're two completely different professions. Especially nowadays it seems like the focus is getting guys that have been coaches straight out of college. Sean McVay got his first job in the NFL at 22 years old. Mike Tomlin got his first coaching gig at 23 years old. Hell Brian Flores got his first job in the NFL at 23 years old.

[Lalouie]

As a dolphins fan, that's not truthfully an accurate assessment of his coaching ability. He has his problems though. If his allegations against Ross are proven true, then there's the question of sabotage. That's a whole other can of worms I don't want to attempt to get into.

parcells - "you are what your record says you are"

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that oversimplifies a complex problem. NO ONE expected us to win 5 games. NO ONE expected us to with 10 games with Tua getting subbed in and out of games at halftime throughout that year. But we disappointed this year and if those allegations have merit, then Ross can be blamed for sabotaging relationships and trust within the organization and coaches/staff. It's messy all around. I miss the days when our O-line coach was doing lines of coke on video for a stripper he was hooked to.

yeah. that's all i can say. there'll be no hiding here. whatever happens, everyone will get his say

[RRyder823]

I'm not going to read though this thread because I am sure there are a lot of idiotic takes and I just don't have the patience to deal with that. The majority of this board just isn't knowledgeable and experienced enough to deal with anything race related.

I love the NFL, but it is about as corrupt and "good ole boys club" as it gets. We have seen it time and time and time again. (Bruce Allen, Jon Gruden, etc etc etc)

There is ONE current black head coach in the NFL right now.

Brian Flores and David Culley both got fired, even though they did very well considering the teams they coached/circumstances surrounding them.

Bills OC and Packers OC just got head coaching jobs. White dudes.
Chiefs OC and Buccaneers OC met in the Super Bowl last year. Both led amazing offenses. Neither one is a head coach right now. Black dudes.

Texans have interviewed Josh McCown for the past couple of years, and he's an ASSISTANT HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL COACH.
[/b]
Eric Beinemy can hardly get an interview, even though he's led one of the best offenses in quite a while for years.

I know the NBA and the MLB has it's problems, but none are nearly in poor of shape as the NFL. It's a huge problem, and it's only getting worse.

Im not gonna delve too deep into this thread but it should be pointed out that Hackett got hired because the Broncos want Aaron Rodgers on their team. Arguing skin color on that one is a gigantic reach. They hired the coach they thought would be the best lure for Rodgers

Beinemy is just kind of a strange case. He was getting interviews left n right the last few years before this. Yes possibly to simply fulfill the Rooney Rule but it is also possible it's a combination of teams believing its Reid is the straw the stirs that drink and/or just maybe a bad interview.



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[GregOden]

Racism and racial bias are not the same. There have been a number of broad surveys where hiring managers have more or less indirectly admitted to preferring to hiring their own race most of the time, I think the number is somewhere near 70% of the time. People are tribal, I dont think thats news. This wont go away until all hiring is done by software algorithms or machine learning or something. Overt racism is far less common in this day and age.

[Synciere]

Is there racism there? How can you say no? They’re so bad they force teams to interview black coaches and still there is currently one black head coach. It’s hilarious people are even asking this question when I’m old enough to remember black QBs being controversial in this league.

Having said that, Flores won’t win his case. NFL just has too much money and power and I don’t see how he’s going to be able to prove that racism was behind his firing and lack of work.

He won’t win the case, but discovery will be so bad for the NFL that they’ll settle. It’s Kaepernick all over again.

[Synciere]

Racism and racial bias are not the same. There have been a number of broad surveys where hiring managers have more or less indirectly admitted to preferring to hiring their own race most of the time, I think the number is somewhere near 70% of the time. People are tribal, I dont think thats news. This wont go away until all hiring is done by software algorithms or machine learning or something. Overt racism is far less common in this day and age.

Bias is a single hire. Bias is the giants hiring Daboll after hiring Schoen. Over time, when bias is consistently providing the same results, that’s racism.

[JN61]

This sounds like big nothing. Then again that is America and anything crazy is possible there...

[Statlanta]

If we go by the NBA, organizations go for retreads. If black people are already not in the league then they aren't going to just pick them out of the blue. You would have to be outstanding for people to not pick the core 32 coaches that are already in the league.

I don't think it's discrimination, it could very well be, but I doubt it is.

[Gusto1903]

Ridiculous. I think Brian Flores is a salty, whiny female dog.
I mean, yeah the Rooney Rule is stupid, but why sue the NFL for not getting a job?

[AussieCeltic]

If we go by the NBA, organizations go for retreads. If black people are already not in the league then they aren't going to just pick them out of the blue. You would have to be outstanding for people to not pick the core 32 coaches that are already in the league.

I don't think it's discrimination, it could very well be, but I doubt it is.

Maybe in the past but the NBA has turned a leaf and gone with plenty of inexperienced coaches this year - all black.

Udoka, Green, Mosley, Wes Unseld Jnr, Billups with Carlisle and Kidd being the only retreads.

[hauntedcomputer]

more racism in this thread than in the NFL

[TheChaser]

This will end well on the GB.

My thoughts exactly…