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with RG3 and Kaep struggling, is it fair to say the read option has been adjusted to by NFL defenses?
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I wouldn't say its been adjusted to but rather the coaches have learned from the RG3 situation and are limiting how much they use it...I havent watched the redskins so far this year outside of some highlights. But kaeps seems to be making it a point to throw more...like he's trying to prove a point...personally I hope the craze is over.1

That hit that Terrelle Pryor took that gave him a concussion vs. Denver might have been the final nail in the coffin.

IIRC it happened during a designed QB run.

I think its a combination of the NFL figuring out how to stop it and coaches no wanting to risk their qb's. All defensive coordinators are telling their players to always hit the qb on the read option anymore and coaches of read option guys know this.





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RG3 is actually struggling because the Skins are NOT running read option. They ran it a few times against the Lions, and were mostly successful, but it wasn't near as often as last year(and even last year, it was not the majority of their plays). RG3 has expressed wanting to be more of a pocket passer and sees himself more like Peyton Manning, unfortunately he's...not a very good pocket passer at all, he's closer to Cooper Manning than Peyton in that area.

Kaepernick looked great against the Packers. Against Seattle, well that D shuts down everything and IIRC Vernon Davis was/is injured. Remember, Crabtree is out too. That means all he has to throw to really is Boldin, who's good but isn't gonna be putting up 200 yards a game like he did Week 1.

Higga wrote:RG3 is actually struggling because the Skins are NOT running read option. They ran it a few times against the Lions, and were mostly successful, but it wasn't near as often as last year(and even last year, it was not the majority of their plays). RG3 has expressed wanting to be more of a pocket passer and sees himself more like Peyton Manning, unfortunately he's...not a very good pocket passer at all, he's closer to Cooper Manning than Peyton in that area.

Kaepernick looked great against the Packers. Against Seattle, well that D shuts down everything and IIRC Vernon Davis was/is injured. Remember, Crabtree is out too. That means all he has to throw to really is Boldin, who's good but isn't gonna be putting up 200 yards a game like he did Week 1.

But the thing is, RG3 hurt his knee in the first place because he was scrambling.

And before that, he took a vicious hit on the sidelines on a play where he thought he had a chance at the goal line. He got a concussion on that play IIRC, because he was scrambling.

I don't think it's dead. I think it's just going to be used a lot less during the regular season. Come playoff time when things count, expect to see more read options from the QBs capable of it. Until sudden death time, expect teams to protect their QBs as much as possible.

rockmanslim wrote:

Higga wrote:RG3 is actually struggling because the Skins are NOT running read option. They ran it a few times against the Lions, and were mostly successful, but it wasn't near as often as last year(and even last year, it was not the majority of their plays). RG3 has expressed wanting to be more of a pocket passer and sees himself more like Peyton Manning, unfortunately he's...not a very good pocket passer at all, he's closer to Cooper Manning than Peyton in that area.

Kaepernick looked great against the Packers. Against Seattle, well that D shuts down everything and IIRC Vernon Davis was/is injured. Remember, Crabtree is out too. That means all he has to throw to really is Boldin, who's good but isn't gonna be putting up 200 yards a game like he did Week 1.

But the thing is, RG3 hurt his knee in the first place because he was scrambling.

And before that, he took a vicious hit on the sidelines on a play where he thought he had a chance at the goal line. He got a concussion on that play IIRC, because he was scrambling.

Neither of those were read option plays though. In fact if anything the read option protects RG3 more because you can design plays to get him out running in space or behind blockers. He's just as vulnerable sitting back in the pocket, especially with our OL(which gets exposed big time without the deception of the read option).His injuries last year came on plays where he was just scrambling on his own.

Higga wrote:

rockmanslim wrote:

Higga wrote:RG3 is actually struggling because the Skins are NOT running read option. They ran it a few times against the Lions, and were mostly successful, but it wasn't near as often as last year(and even last year, it was not the majority of their plays). RG3 has expressed wanting to be more of a pocket passer and sees himself more like Peyton Manning, unfortunately he's...not a very good pocket passer at all, he's closer to Cooper Manning than Peyton in that area.

Kaepernick looked great against the Packers. Against Seattle, well that D shuts down everything and IIRC Vernon Davis was/is injured. Remember, Crabtree is out too. That means all he has to throw to really is Boldin, who's good but isn't gonna be putting up 200 yards a game like he did Week 1.

But the thing is, RG3 hurt his knee in the first place because he was scrambling.

And before that, he took a vicious hit on the sidelines on a play where he thought he had a chance at the goal line. He got a concussion on that play IIRC, because he was scrambling.

Neither of those were read option plays though. In fact if anything the read option protects RG3 more because you can design plays to get him out running in space or behind blockers. He's just as vulnerable sitting back in the pocket, especially with our OL(which gets exposed big time without the deception of the read option).His injuries last year came on plays where he was just scrambling on his own.

Right, I wasn't sure whether they were read option plays or not, but even if not, they still illustrate the point that a QB on the run is more vulnerable to injury. Read option means more QB runs. So I think it's the opposite of what you said. Read option doesn't protect RG3 more, it exposes him to more hits.

That's the theory anyway. Has anyone done a study on this? I do remember when Tebow got injured in the playoffs, it was on a play where he was in the pocket looking to pass, so I thought that was kind of ironic.

But then again you see Vick getting banged up constantly because of his reckless scrambling.

Also Gabbert sliced open his hand on a QB scramble.

I've always thought that mobile QBs like RG3 and Vick did best when coaches didn't devise a gameplan that tried to overuse plays where the QB runs with the ball. Instead QBs like that should be made to be pocket passers and then have them use their speed and mobility in a more improvised manner to avoid the defense.

In certain situations its good, and others its not. It will still be used, but not on every single down. Because it is a powerful tool when used properly and against certain defenses. When an end or outside linebacker has no care whatsoever about the QB, and just crashes from the opposite side towards the runningback, and then your QB pulls the ball and runs wide open for big yardage, it becomes a valuable tool. it slows up his rush and gains big yardage. So in certain situations it can get a defense back on their heels and thinking. But not the constant running of it, because those LBs are tee'in off on QBs.

Geddy wrote:I've always thought that mobile QBs like RG3 and Vick did best when coaches didn't devise a gameplan that tried to overuse plays where the QB runs with the ball. Instead QBs like that should be made to be pocket passers and then have them use their speed and mobility in a more improvised manner to avoid the defense.

I do agree, I want RG3 to be more like Steve Young/Aaron Rodgers. Really good pocket passers who can kill you with their legs as a last resort. HOWEVER RG3(when he's 100%)just has so much speed that it'd be a waste to not utilize it at least to some extent. He's also not refined enough as a pocket passer yet, so we need his legs and the read option if we want a chance to win games. The offense without it is just not productive at all.

How does no one mention the rule change and the impact it's had? None of the coaches will admit it publicaly because they still want defenses to gameplan to defend the read option, but to me it's obvious that allowing defenders to get open shots anywhere on the QB for doing what amounts to play action would make you reconsider your offensive strategy.

There is a reason QBs in the pocket get special protection in today's NFL, namely their importance to the product on the field. To give that protection up is not worth the risk especially when you can just go "traditional" by playing as a pocket passer who can scramble when it's available. That way you keep your QB protection status and lower the chance of defenders legally going for your legs while in the pocket.

Finished?

Its just getting started.

So many QBs have had recent success with it, Tebow, Kaep,Wilson, RG3. Hell even Pryor though its coming in loses is having the offense score. (raiders roster is just terrible)

All the top college QBs are running similar stuff Manziel, Boyd, miller etc.
You will always have your pocket passing QBs that is never going to go away but I don't think the read option is even close to going away.

Not everybody has the Seahawks defense in the NFL.

I don't think it's dead.

It has a huge risk vs reward structure however (see RG3).

The NFL is just too physical and QB's are such important commodities that teams won't likely be aggressive with it.

Kaepernick probably just needs time, but in general, might just be running QBs as a whole that can't sustain success due to inevitable injury. Culpepper and Cunningham both slowed down at age 28 due to injury, RG3 only got a year, McNabb lost a full season between ages 29 and 30. Seems everybody eventually goes down and has to change their game and they usually aren't nearly the same threat. Manning and Brady have lost years, but they're still Manning and Brady. Culpepper gets injured and he goes from a pro bowler to non-starting talent.