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"The Pittsburgh Steelers say their coach-to-coach communications during Thursday night's season opener in New England were interfered with."

In related news: "The Patriots say theirs were, too."

Nice one Pats, way to cover for yourselves by purposely sabotaging your own headsets when you were on the verge of being caught... no shame Bill, no shame...1st game of the season too!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13629657/pittsburgh-steelers-reportedly-file-complaint-nfl-headset-failure-new-england-patriots-game

Mike Tomlin expressed frustration with how headset issues have occurred repeatedly at New England.

"That's always the case. Yes. I said what I said," Tomlin said.
-see wiretap

LAKESHOW wrote:Mike Tomlin expressed frustration with how headset issues have occurred repeatedly at New England.

"That's always the case. Yes. I said what I said," Tomlin said.
-see wiretap

"New England coaches were not required to shut down their headsets"

"We deal with it every week it seems"- Belicheat

yeah I'm sure you deal with it every week , you lying scumbag.

Latrell wrote:

LAKESHOW wrote:Mike Tomlin expressed frustration with how headset issues have occurred repeatedly at New England.

"That's always the case. Yes. I said what I said," Tomlin said.
-see wiretap

"New England coaches were not required to shut down their headsets"

"We deal with it every week it seems"- Belicheat

yeah I'm sure you deal with it every week , you lying scumbag.

Classy post from a retired mod - yeah right. I wonder if any of the mods will actually have the cajones to reprimand this disgraceful conduct. Another one on the propaganda train.

"Q: I know you were asked about the communication issues last night and you said that you didn't receive any answers as to why that happened. The NFL released a statement that we all saw. Did you get any answers beyond that statement that the NFL released?Read

BB: No. I'd just say it's pretty common. I mean, look, there is a lot of stuff down there. There is the coach-to-quarterback stuff, offense and defense, there's the headsets to the press box, there's the tablets. There is a lot of stuff going on there. Like just as an example, we had some problems in the first half and then it seemed to be OK, and then we got to the end of the game, and the most problems we had were our last possessions - our last two possessions on offense and defense. Sometimes it goes along and it's fine and then for some reason something happens and then you go the guys on the sidelines - the blue hats or the purple hats, whatever they're called - and you tell them about it and they fix it. I don't know enough about technology to know how any of that works, but that's how it goes. We ended up hard wiring a couple of our headsets to kind of eliminate the wireless part of it. It's not an uncommon problem. We ended up having to signal a couple our plays offensively, and we couldn't get them in. We look at it as something you have to be ready for every week, and we practice it. Home, away - I don't really think there is any common denominator on that. I'd just say, kind of tying this in with a couple things from last week or earlier in the week, I just think overall it's kind of sad, really, to see some stories written that obviously have an agenda to them with misinformation and anonymous-type comments and writing about warm drinks and trash cans and stuff like that. I think it's just sad commentary and it's gone to a pretty low level. It's sunk pretty deep. First of all, let's say that I think that our program here is built on competition and trying to improve every day and trying to work hard, and it's not built on excuses. We just try to go to work and improve and find a way to get better. This organization has won a lot of games, but particularly in reference to the great teams from '01, '03, '04 and back in there, all the great players that played on those teams - Ty Law, [Lawyer] Milloy, Otis Smith, Rodney Harrison, [Tedy] Bruschi, [Larry] Izzo, [Willie] McGinest, [Mike] Vrabel, [Anthony] Pleasant, [Richard] Seymour, Matt Light, [Joe] Andruzzi, Steve Neal, [Deion] Branch, Troy Brown, [Tom] Brady, Antoine Smith, Kevin Faulk, Corey Dillon, Lonie Paxton, [Adam] Vinatieri - to take away from what those guys accomplished, what those teams accomplished, how good they were, how many great players we had, how well they played in big games, how they consistently showed up and made big plays and game-winning plays, it's just not right. Those guys, they were great players - and many more - but those are a few of them, and great teams, so I'm not going to get into a back and forth on it, but that's the way I feel about it."

andrewww wrote:

Latrell wrote:

LAKESHOW wrote:Mike Tomlin expressed frustration with how headset issues have occurred repeatedly at New England.

"That's always the case. Yes. I said what I said," Tomlin said.
-see wiretap

"New England coaches were not required to shut down their headsets"

"We deal with it every week it seems"- Belicheat

yeah I'm sure you deal with it every week , you lying scumbag.

Classy post from a retired mod - yeah right. Another one on the propaganda train.

"Q: I know you were asked about the communication issues last night and you said that you didn't receive any answers as to why that happened. The NFL released a statement that we all saw. Did you get any answers beyond that statement that the NFL released?Read

BB: No. I'd just say it's pretty common. I mean, look, there is a lot of stuff down there. There is the coach-to-quarterback stuff, offense and defense, there's the headsets to the press box, there's the tablets. There is a lot of stuff going on there. Like just as an example, we had some problems in the first half and then it seemed to be OK, and then we got to the end of the game, and the most problems we had were our last possessions - our last two possessions on offense and defense. Sometimes it goes along and it's fine and then for some reason something happens and then you go the guys on the sidelines - the blue hats or the purple hats, whatever they're called - and you tell them about it and they fix it. I don't know enough about technology to know how any of that works, but that's how it goes. We ended up hard wiring a couple of our headsets to kind of eliminate the wireless part of it. It's not an uncommon problem. We ended up having to signal a couple our plays offensively, and we couldn't get them in. We look at it as something you have to be ready for every week, and we practice it. Home, away - I don't really think there is any common denominator on that. I'd just say, kind of tying this in with a couple things from last week or earlier in the week, I just think overall it's kind of sad, really, to see some stories written that obviously have an agenda to them with misinformation and anonymous-type comments and writing about warm drinks and trash cans and stuff like that. I think it's just sad commentary and it's gone to a pretty low level. It's sunk pretty deep. First of all, let's say that I think that our program here is built on competition and trying to improve every day and trying to work hard, and it's not built on excuses. We just try to go to work and improve and find a way to get better. This organization has won a lot of games, but particularly in reference to the great teams from '01, '03, '04 and back in there, all the great players that played on those teams - Ty Law, [Lawyer] Milloy, Otis Smith, Rodney Harrison, [Tedy] Bruschi, [Larry] Izzo, [Willie] McGinest, [Mike] Vrabel, [Anthony] Pleasant, [Richard] Seymour, Matt Light, [Joe] Andruzzi, Steve Neal, [Deion] Branch, Troy Brown, [Tom] Brady, Antoine Smith, Kevin Faulk, Corey Dillon, Lonie Paxton, [Adam] Vinatieri - to take away from what those guys accomplished, what those teams accomplished, how good they were, how many great players we had, how well they played in big games, how they consistently showed up and made big plays and game-winning plays, it's just not right. Those guys, they were great players - and many more - but those are a few of them, and great teams, so I'm not going to get into a back and forth on it, but that's the way I feel about it."

Aww. Maybe you shouldn't cheat or try to cheat in the first place. Then you would;t have to worry about all the "mis-information" and "low-level commentary" and "propaganda"

It's the price you pay.

* <- that's an asterisk. Get used to seeing those.

wait a minute drew, this is a DIRECT QUOTE WITH LINKS TO SUPPORT. The Steelers themselves, along with their coach made these claims. Please file a complaint with the Steelers if you think this is too much to handle.

Secondly, this is an old Bill Walsh 49er ploy. He cuts his headsets. Forcing opponents to cut headsets. And scripts his plays and beat Bill Bellichek/Parcells Giants team back in the day. So this is a cheat that has been used before.

Latrell wrote:

andrewww wrote:

Latrell wrote:
"New England coaches were not required to shut down their headsets"

"We deal with it every week it seems"- Belicheat

yeah I'm sure you deal with it every week , you lying scumbag.

Classy post from a retired mod - yeah right. Another one on the propaganda train.

"Q: I know you were asked about the communication issues last night and you said that you didn't receive any answers as to why that happened. The NFL released a statement that we all saw. Did you get any answers beyond that statement that the NFL released?Read

BB: No. I'd just say it's pretty common. I mean, look, there is a lot of stuff down there. There is the coach-to-quarterback stuff, offense and defense, there's the headsets to the press box, there's the tablets. There is a lot of stuff going on there. Like just as an example, we had some problems in the first half and then it seemed to be OK, and then we got to the end of the game, and the most problems we had were our last possessions - our last two possessions on offense and defense. Sometimes it goes along and it's fine and then for some reason something happens and then you go the guys on the sidelines - the blue hats or the purple hats, whatever they're called - and you tell them about it and they fix it. I don't know enough about technology to know how any of that works, but that's how it goes. We ended up hard wiring a couple of our headsets to kind of eliminate the wireless part of it. It's not an uncommon problem. We ended up having to signal a couple our plays offensively, and we couldn't get them in. We look at it as something you have to be ready for every week, and we practice it. Home, away - I don't really think there is any common denominator on that. I'd just say, kind of tying this in with a couple things from last week or earlier in the week, I just think overall it's kind of sad, really, to see some stories written that obviously have an agenda to them with misinformation and anonymous-type comments and writing about warm drinks and trash cans and stuff like that. I think it's just sad commentary and it's gone to a pretty low level. It's sunk pretty deep. First of all, let's say that I think that our program here is built on competition and trying to improve every day and trying to work hard, and it's not built on excuses. We just try to go to work and improve and find a way to get better. This organization has won a lot of games, but particularly in reference to the great teams from '01, '03, '04 and back in there, all the great players that played on those teams - Ty Law, [Lawyer] Milloy, Otis Smith, Rodney Harrison, [Tedy] Bruschi, [Larry] Izzo, [Willie] McGinest, [Mike] Vrabel, [Anthony] Pleasant, [Richard] Seymour, Matt Light, [Joe] Andruzzi, Steve Neal, [Deion] Branch, Troy Brown, [Tom] Brady, Antoine Smith, Kevin Faulk, Corey Dillon, Lonie Paxton, [Adam] Vinatieri - to take away from what those guys accomplished, what those teams accomplished, how good they were, how many great players we had, how well they played in big games, how they consistently showed up and made big plays and game-winning plays, it's just not right. Those guys, they were great players - and many more - but those are a few of them, and great teams, so I'm not going to get into a back and forth on it, but that's the way I feel about it."

Aww. Maybe you shouldn't cheat or try to cheat in the first place. Then you would;t have to worry about all the "mis-information" and "low-level commentary" and "propaganda"

It's the price you pay.

* <- that's an asterisk. Get used to seeing those.

Im waiting for mods to step in.
Your gona make remarks that any normal user would be banned for, then spread lies about cheating when theyve had 1 violation in 15 years. The Colts by comparison have 2 (pumping in crowd noise and turning up the visitor locker room temp.

Get your facts and evidence first before you slander others. You dumb ****.

Yes, 1 very large violation.

I'm not insulting anyone personally . Simply stating what I think whether you believe it to be true or not.

There's enough anecdotal evidence to say the Pats are cheaters. That's it.

I admit my Colts bias and even admit to being disappointed in them for the crowd noise.

I've yet to see any Pats fan own up to anything which is what frustrates people more than the actual cheating itself.

No complaint filed after Tomlin realized he's an idiot and it happens everywhere. Including Pittsburgh http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/11/headset-issues-have-arisen-in-pittsburgh-too
Shame Pittsburgh like Indy and Baltimore before them have to make excuses instead of losing like men like Seattle.

Chip Kelly stated this kind of thing is normal around the league and he has experienced it in other stadiums as well.

I'm really sick of reading and hearing about the Patriots, so let's talk football and about why the Steelers lost this game. Let's talk about calling a trick play on their first possession close to the Pats red zone and the subsequent holding penalty putting them in second and 20-something. Let's talk about 2 missed field goals. Let's talk about the defense leaving the best tight end in the league wide open numerous times. Let's talk about Tom Brady's near 80% completion rate. The Patriots were better this game, deal with it.

The only cheating I saw last night was New England's offense lining up against a high school rate defense. I suspect that it's going to start to become apparent that LeBeau and Rapin' Ben have been propping up Tomlin's very average coaching ability.
Just remember, it was that very same crybaby that walked right onto the field and stepped in front of Jacoby Jones to prevent a certain TD then had the audacity to deny it with a **** eating smirk on his face. **** that indignant prick. I hope the Pats did do it on purpose.

Latrell wrote:I admit my Colts bias and even admit to being disappointed in them for the crowd noise.

I've yet to see any Pats fan own up to anything which is what frustrates people more than the actual cheating itself.

Nonsense. This is equivocation. You're unconsciously (I assume) structuring your comment in a way that it can mean more than one thing, so that you can fall back on whichever meaning is convenient depending on how your opponent replies.

Plenty of Patriots fans openly admit that the team probably walks the grey line and looks for loopholes to exploit, maybe moreso than any other team. I've seen plenty of Pats fans admit to wishing they didn't do that.

But that's not what you want Pats fans to admit. You want Pats fans to admit that they are classless cheaters, and that all of their accomplishments are tainted. When they refuse to do that, you think them arrogant, classless, and delusional homers.

So I'll propose this: If you admit that the Colts are cheaters and that all of their accomplishments are tainted, for the crowd noise and locker room temp incidents, I'll consider doing the same wrt the Pats.

Whaddya say?




And, you know it's gotten out of hand when New Yorkers are passing up an opportunity to pile on. My NFL dirty secret is that Rex Ryan has been one of my favorite non-Pats coaches for a while now. When things aren't going right for his team, he takes ownership of it, instead of pointing fingers everywhere else but at him and his.

RavenMad31 wrote:The only cheating I saw last night was New England's offense lining up against a high school rate defense. I suspect that it's going to start to become apparent that LeBeau and Rapin' Ben have been propping up Tomlin's very average coaching ability.
Just remember, it was that very same crybaby that walked right onto the field and stepped in front of Jacoby Jones to prevent a certain TD then had the audacity to deny it with a **** eating smirk on his face. **** that indignant prick. I hope the Pats did do it on purpose.

How did they not get severely punished for that? That was the most obvious cheating I've ever seen. Such a load of crap Goodell took his explanation after that smirk.

Froob wrote:

RavenMad31 wrote:The only cheating I saw last night was New England's offense lining up against a high school rate defense. I suspect that it's going to start to become apparent that LeBeau and Rapin' Ben have been propping up Tomlin's very average coaching ability.
Just remember, it was that very same crybaby that walked right onto the field and stepped in front of Jacoby Jones to prevent a certain TD then had the audacity to deny it with a **** eating smirk on his face. **** that indignant prick. I hope the Pats did do it on purpose.

How did they not get severely punished for that? That was the most obvious cheating I've ever seen. Such a load of crap Goodell took his explanation after that smirk.

Check out this video.

The most disgusting part, to me, is at the end, where Jones, Flacco and Harbaugh are laughing about it and needling Tomlin good-naturedly. Blatant, deliberate, clear-as-day cheating, and it's just a silly incident, easily forgotten, because it's not the Patriots.

SMTBSI wrote:Blatant, deliberate, clear-as-day cheating, and it's just a silly incident, easily forgotten, because it's not the Patriots.

It's true that I haven't really been an active part of this conversation. But I've been having some discussions lately with coworkers, and my general stance on this is starting to congeal. This is probably as good a time as any to go on record with where I actually stand. (Not that I think anyone particularly cares about where SMTBSI stands, but it might be handy to be able to point back to this post later.)


In fact, I do think that Tomlin's action is silly and easily forgettable. Just like the Colts crowd noise and locker rooms temp shenangians. Just like the Vikings and Panthers sideline ball-heating incident. Just like the Browns text-messaging misdemeanor. Just like every time a pitcher in baseball gets caught with pine tar on his glove or hat and gets ejected and suspended a few games. Just like every time a team, in any sport, attempts to steal/crack signals. Just like Shaquille Oneal admitting he deflated basketballs during the Lakers championship runs (you'll like this one, Lakeshow). Just like every time receivers and defensive backs push the limits of handfighting, and linemen push the limit of holding to prevent a sack, and QBs try to draw the defensive line offsides with crazy cadences. Just like every racially-or-medically-or-in-some-way-or-another-insensitive taunt Garnett ever used to try to get in the head of an opposing player. Just like when Rondo tried to get into one of the Heat's huddles because there hadn't been an actual timeout. Just like when Artest pulled Pierce's shorts down.

My gamesmanship tolerance is enormous, and was before Spygate ever became a thing. If I found out that another team cracked our signals, I would be pissed at our coaching staff for not catching on and adjusting / switching things up quickly enough. If another team came out with a trick play that exploits a grey area in the rules, I would be chagrined that we didn't think of it first. If another team provided us warm gatorade, I'd probably genuinely laugh out loud when I heard about it. And if another team ran up the score on us mercilessly (which many, many teams are guaranteed to do once we sink back into mediocrity - get ready Pats fans, because the scales will balance sooner or later), I'd take the medicine and look inward to ask what can be done to stop them next time.

I just can't, for the life of me, understand why everyone else seems to being going collectively insane over all of this.


I personally draw the line somewhere around the vicinity of steroids. And even then I have considerable sympathy for players who are trying to come back from injury quicker, or are having difficulty coming to terms with encroaching old age, or who feel up against a wall in an environment where use is already rampant. Intentional attempts to injure are also a personal limit; I will never wish an injury on another player, and I truly want my opponents healthy when I face them.


That doesn't mean I think it should be a wild wild west free-for-all. It's the league's job to police this stuff and dole out punishment appropriately. And when they do, I'll take the punishment with grace, and move on (I've only ever uttered the most mild of griping about our lost draft picks).


But that's not what this is about. It's not: "We cheated and/or bent the rules, got caught, and got punished, and life went on." It's: "We cheated and/or bent the rules, got caught, got dragged through the mud for years, got told that all of our accomplishments are invalid, that we're immoral and unethical, that we'd be terrible parents if we raised our kids to be Pats fans (yes, I've been told that), that defending my team says volumes about my personal ethical shortcomings (yes, I've been told that), that our team should get the death penalty and be removed from the league (yes, I've been told that), that everything we accomplish in the future will be tainted because "once a cheater always a cheater" (yes, I've been told that), had nearly every single football conversation for the last decade interrupted by an uninvited participant who has to take their chance to make sure I understand that "cheaters" and "tainted" and "asterisk" and that I'm a POS for rooting for them...

And then, on top of it all, when we finally have had enough, and go all Yankee-mode, as I have, and start telling everyone, "Kiss our rings, b***h," we get told by other fans, like Latrell, that what they can't stand the most is our "arrogance", and that they wouldn't hate us so much if we would just show some "humility".

Well, guess what? You made us this way. You wanted a villian, and you got one. I now wholly understand Yankee fans, when they embrace the fact that they bought their titles instead of apologizing for it. I admit no responsibility. I give no ground. My team is better than yours. My organization is better than yours. You can't beat us off the field, which is too bad because you sure as **** can't beat us on it. We beat you when we cheat. We beat you when we don't bother to cheat. Belichick is smarter than your coach. Brady is better than your QB. Our system is superior to yours, our city is better than yours, my dad can beat up your dad, your lunch tastes delicious, and you can't do a thing about any of it. And that burns you, bad.



Ok. Supervillian mode disengage.

Sports are supposed to be our diversion from the serious stuff. Unfortunately, it seems that there are a lot of human beings out there who take enormous pleasure in trying to take that away from complete strangers. People like Lakeshow seem to have heavy emotional investment in schadenfreude and spoiling others' enjoyment of a pasttime. They want to ruin it for us. If they can't beat us on the field, they want to make sure that the fan-experience is so foul for us that we can get no pleasure out of it. The very knowledge that Pats fans have had to go through the things I've described above makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside.

This whole thing - it's not really about "cheating". Never has been. It's the biggest red herring of all time. It's about people, and their need to get up on the soapbox and lecture and feel superior to others. Any opportunity for outrage and righteous indignation. Forget that we're talking about sports - this is your chance to look someone in the eye and make sure they know that you're better than them. Don't miss it! This is important!

SMTBSI wrote:

SMTBSI wrote:Blatant, deliberate, clear-as-day cheating, and it's just a silly incident, easily forgotten, because it's not the Patriots.

It's true that I haven't really been an active part of this conversation. But I've been having some discussions lately with coworkers, and my general stance on this is starting to congeal. This is probably as good a time as any to go on record with where I actually stand. (Not that I think anyone particularly cares about where SMTBSI stands, but it might be handy to be able to point back to this post later.)


In fact, I do think that Tomlin's action is silly and easily forgettable. Just like the Colts crowd noise and locker rooms temp shenangians. Just like the Vikings and Panthers sideline ball-heating incident. Just like the Browns text-messaging misdemeanor. Just like every time a pitcher in baseball gets caught with pine tar on his glove or hat and gets ejected and suspended a few games. Just like every time a team, in any sport, attempts to steal/crack signals. Just like Shaquille Oneal admitting he deflated basketballs during the Lakers championship runs (you'll like this one, Lakeshow). Just like every time receivers and defensive backs push the limits of handfighting, and linemen push the limit of holding to prevent a sack, and QBs try to draw the defensive line offsides with crazy cadences. Just like every racially-or-medically-or-in-some-way-or-another-insensitive taunt Garnett ever used to try to get in the head of an opposing player. Just like when Rondo tried to get into one of the Heat's huddles because there hadn't been an actual timeout. Just like when Artest pulled Pierce's shorts down.

My gamesmanship tolerance is enormous, and was before Spygate ever became a thing. If I found out that another team cracked our signals, I would be pissed at our coaching staff for not catching on and adjusting / switching things up quickly enough. If another team came out with a trick play that exploits a grey area in the rules, I would be chagrined that we didn't think of it first. If another team provided us warm gatorade, I'd probably genuinely laugh out loud when I heard about it. And if another team ran up the score on us mercilessly (which many, many teams are guaranteed to do once we sink back into mediocrity - get ready Pats fans, because the scales will balance sooner or later), I'd take the medicine and look inward to ask what can be done to stop them next time.

I just can't, for the life of me, understand why everyone else seems to being going collectively insane over all of this.


I personally draw the line somewhere around the vicinity of steroids. And even then I have considerable sympathy for players who are trying to come back from injury quicker, or are having difficulty coming to terms with encroaching old age, or who feel up against a wall in an environment where use is already rampant. Intentional attempts to injure are also a personal limit; I will never wish an injury on another player, and I truly want my opponents healthy when I face them.


That doesn't mean I think it should be a wild wild west free-for-all. It's the league's job to police this stuff and dole out punishment appropriately. And when they do, I'll take the punishment with grace, and move on (I've only ever uttered the most mild of griping about our lost draft picks).


But that's not what this is about. It's not: "We cheated and/or bent the rules, got caught, and got punished, and life went on." It's: "We cheated and/or bent the rules, got caught, got dragged through the mud for years, got told that all of our accomplishments are invalid, that we're immoral and unethical, that we'd be terrible parents if we raised our kids to be Pats fans (yes, I've been told that), that defending my team says volumes about my personal ethical shortcomings (yes, I've been told that), that our team should get the death penalty and be removed from the league (yes, I've been told that), that everything we accomplish in the future will be tainted because "once a cheater always a cheater" (yes, I've been told that), had nearly every single football conversation for the last decade interrupted by an uninvited participant who has to take their chance to make sure I understand that "cheaters" and "tainted" and "asterisk" and that I'm a POS for rooting for them...

And then, on top of it all, when we finally have had enough, and go all Yankee-mode, as I have, and start telling everyone, "Kiss our rings, b***h," we get told by other fans, like Latrell, that what they can't stand the most is our "arrogance", and that they wouldn't hate us so much if we would just show some "humility".

Well, guess what? You made us this way. You wanted a villian, and you got one. I now wholly understand Yankee fans, when they embrace the fact that they bought their titles instead of apologizing for it. I admit no responsibility. I give no ground. My team is better than yours. My organization is better than yours. You can't beat us off the field, which is too bad because you sure as **** can't beat us on it. We beat you when we cheat. We beat you when we don't bother to cheat. Belichick is smarter than your coach. Brady is better than your QB. Our system is superior to yours, our city is better than yours, my dad can beat up your dad, your lunch tastes delicious, and you can't do a thing about any of it. And that burns you, bad.



Ok. Supervillian mode disengage.

Sports are supposed to be our diversion from the serious stuff. Unfortunately, it seems that there are a lot of human beings out there who take enormous pleasure in trying to take that away from complete strangers. People like Lakeshow seem to have heavy emotional investment in schadenfreude and spoiling others' enjoyment of a pasttime. They want to ruin it for us. If they can't beat us on the field, they want to make sure that the fan-experience is so foul for us that we can get no pleasure out of it. The very knowledge that Pats fans have had to go through the things I've described above makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside.

This whole thing - it's not really about "cheating". Never has been. It's the biggest red herring of all time. It's about people, and their need to get up on the soapbox and lecture and feel superior to others. Any opportunity for outrage and righteous indignation. Forget that we're talking about sports - this is your chance to look someone in the eye and make sure they know that you're better than them. Don't miss it! This is important!

Whole lotta truth up there, especially that last little paragraph.

SMTBSI wrote:

SMTBSI wrote:Blatant, deliberate, clear-as-day cheating, and it's just a silly incident, easily forgotten, because it's not the Patriots.

It's true that I haven't really been an active part of this conversation. But I've been having some discussions lately with coworkers, and my general stance on this is starting to congeal. This is probably as good a time as any to go on record with where I actually stand. (Not that I think anyone particularly cares about where SMTBSI stands, but it might be handy to be able to point back to this post later.)


In fact, I do think that Tomlin's action is silly and easily forgettable. Just like the Colts crowd noise and locker rooms temp shenangians. Just like the Vikings and Panthers sideline ball-heating incident. Just like the Browns text-messaging misdemeanor. Just like every time a pitcher in baseball gets caught with pine tar on his glove or hat and gets ejected and suspended a few games. Just like every time a team, in any sport, attempts to steal/crack signals. Just like Shaquille Oneal admitting he deflated basketballs during the Lakers championship runs (you'll like this one, Lakeshow). Just like every time receivers and defensive backs push the limits of handfighting, and linemen push the limit of holding to prevent a sack, and QBs try to draw the defensive line offsides with crazy cadences. Just like every racially-or-medically-or-in-some-way-or-another-insensitive taunt Garnett ever used to try to get in the head of an opposing player. Just like when Rondo tried to get into one of the Heat's huddles because there hadn't been an actual timeout. Just like when Artest pulled Pierce's shorts down.

My gamesmanship tolerance is enormous, and was before Spygate ever became a thing. If I found out that another team cracked our signals, I would be pissed at our coaching staff for not catching on and adjusting / switching things up quickly enough. If another team came out with a trick play that exploits a grey area in the rules, I would be chagrined that we didn't think of it first. If another team provided us warm gatorade, I'd probably genuinely laugh out loud when I heard about it. And if another team ran up the score on us mercilessly (which many, many teams are guaranteed to do once we sink back into mediocrity - get ready Pats fans, because the scales will balance sooner or later), I'd take the medicine and look inward to ask what can be done to stop them next time.

I just can't, for the life of me, understand why everyone else seems to being going collectively insane over all of this.


I personally draw the line somewhere around the vicinity of steroids. And even then I have considerable sympathy for players who are trying to come back from injury quicker, or are having difficulty coming to terms with encroaching old age, or who feel up against a wall in an environment where use is already rampant. Intentional attempts to injure are also a personal limit; I will never wish an injury on another player, and I truly want my opponents healthy when I face them.


That doesn't mean I think it should be a wild wild west free-for-all. It's the league's job to police this stuff and dole out punishment appropriately. And when they do, I'll take the punishment with grace, and move on (I've only ever uttered the most mild of griping about our lost draft picks).


But that's not what this is about. It's not: "We cheated and/or bent the rules, got caught, and got punished, and life went on." It's: "We cheated and/or bent the rules, got caught, got dragged through the mud for years, got told that all of our accomplishments are invalid, that we're immoral and unethical, that we'd be terrible parents if we raised our kids to be Pats fans (yes, I've been told that), that defending my team says volumes about my personal ethical shortcomings (yes, I've been told that), that our team should get the death penalty and be removed from the league (yes, I've been told that), that everything we accomplish in the future will be tainted because "once a cheater always a cheater" (yes, I've been told that), had nearly every single football conversation for the last decade interrupted by an uninvited participant who has to take their chance to make sure I understand that "cheaters" and "tainted" and "asterisk" and that I'm a POS for rooting for them...

And then, on top of it all, when we finally have had enough, and go all Yankee-mode, as I have, and start telling everyone, "Kiss our rings, b***h," we get told by other fans, like Latrell, that what they can't stand the most is our "arrogance", and that they wouldn't hate us so much if we would just show some "humility".

Well, guess what? You made us this way. You wanted a villian, and you got one. I now wholly understand Yankee fans, when they embrace the fact that they bought their titles instead of apologizing for it. I admit no responsibility. I give no ground. My team is better than yours. My organization is better than yours. You can't beat us off the field, which is too bad because you sure as **** can't beat us on it. We beat you when we cheat. We beat you when we don't bother to cheat. Belichick is smarter than your coach. Brady is better than your QB. Our system is superior to yours, our city is better than yours, my dad can beat up your dad, your lunch tastes delicious, and you can't do a thing about any of it. And that burns you, bad.



Ok. Supervillian mode disengage.

Sports are supposed to be our diversion from the serious stuff. Unfortunately, it seems that there are a lot of human beings out there who take enormous pleasure in trying to take that away from complete strangers. People like Lakeshow seem to have heavy emotional investment in schadenfreude and spoiling others' enjoyment of a pasttime. They want to ruin it for us. If they can't beat us on the field, they want to make sure that the fan-experience is so foul for us that we can get no pleasure out of it. The very knowledge that Pats fans have had to go through the things I've described above makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside.

This whole thing - it's not really about "cheating". Never has been. It's the biggest red herring of all time. It's about people, and their need to get up on the soapbox and lecture and feel superior to others. Any opportunity for outrage and righteous indignation. Forget that we're talking about sports - this is your chance to look someone in the eye and make sure they know that you're better than them. Don't miss it! This is important!

I'm a Vikings fan. If someone told me that the Vikings would play in 6 superbowls over the next 15 years and win 4, but would be considered "CHEATERZ" by every other fanbase, I'd be ecstatic. Because in my mind: Success and Superbowls >>>>>>Salty Fanbases.

BTW, after watching "Do Your Job", I've gained a lot of respect for BB. He's prepared for everything the opponent can throw at him.

PockyCandy wrote:

SMTBSI wrote:

SMTBSI wrote:Blatant, deliberate, clear-as-day cheating, and it's just a silly incident, easily forgotten, because it's not the Patriots.

It's true that I haven't really been an active part of this conversation. But I've been having some discussions lately with coworkers, and my general stance on this is starting to congeal. This is probably as good a time as any to go on record with where I actually stand. (Not that I think anyone particularly cares about where SMTBSI stands, but it might be handy to be able to point back to this post later.)


In fact, I do think that Tomlin's action is silly and easily forgettable. Just like the Colts crowd noise and locker rooms temp shenangians. Just like the Vikings and Panthers sideline ball-heating incident. Just like the Browns text-messaging misdemeanor. Just like every time a pitcher in baseball gets caught with pine tar on his glove or hat and gets ejected and suspended a few games. Just like every time a team, in any sport, attempts to steal/crack signals. Just like Shaquille Oneal admitting he deflated basketballs during the Lakers championship runs (you'll like this one, Lakeshow). Just like every time receivers and defensive backs push the limits of handfighting, and linemen push the limit of holding to prevent a sack, and QBs try to draw the defensive line offsides with crazy cadences. Just like every racially-or-medically-or-in-some-way-or-another-insensitive taunt Garnett ever used to try to get in the head of an opposing player. Just like when Rondo tried to get into one of the Heat's huddles because there hadn't been an actual timeout. Just like when Artest pulled Pierce's shorts down.

My gamesmanship tolerance is enormous, and was before Spygate ever became a thing. If I found out that another team cracked our signals, I would be pissed at our coaching staff for not catching on and adjusting / switching things up quickly enough. If another team came out with a trick play that exploits a grey area in the rules, I would be chagrined that we didn't think of it first. If another team provided us warm gatorade, I'd probably genuinely laugh out loud when I heard about it. And if another team ran up the score on us mercilessly (which many, many teams are guaranteed to do once we sink back into mediocrity - get ready Pats fans, because the scales will balance sooner or later), I'd take the medicine and look inward to ask what can be done to stop them next time.

I just can't, for the life of me, understand why everyone else seems to being going collectively insane over all of this.


I personally draw the line somewhere around the vicinity of steroids. And even then I have considerable sympathy for players who are trying to come back from injury quicker, or are having difficulty coming to terms with encroaching old age, or who feel up against a wall in an environment where use is already rampant. Intentional attempts to injure are also a personal limit; I will never wish an injury on another player, and I truly want my opponents healthy when I face them.


That doesn't mean I think it should be a wild wild west free-for-all. It's the league's job to police this stuff and dole out punishment appropriately. And when they do, I'll take the punishment with grace, and move on (I've only ever uttered the most mild of griping about our lost draft picks).


But that's not what this is about. It's not: "We cheated and/or bent the rules, got caught, and got punished, and life went on." It's: "We cheated and/or bent the rules, got caught, got dragged through the mud for years, got told that all of our accomplishments are invalid, that we're immoral and unethical, that we'd be terrible parents if we raised our kids to be Pats fans (yes, I've been told that), that defending my team says volumes about my personal ethical shortcomings (yes, I've been told that), that our team should get the death penalty and be removed from the league (yes, I've been told that), that everything we accomplish in the future will be tainted because "once a cheater always a cheater" (yes, I've been told that), had nearly every single football conversation for the last decade interrupted by an uninvited participant who has to take their chance to make sure I understand that "cheaters" and "tainted" and "asterisk" and that I'm a POS for rooting for them...

And then, on top of it all, when we finally have had enough, and go all Yankee-mode, as I have, and start telling everyone, "Kiss our rings, b***h," we get told by other fans, like Latrell, that what they can't stand the most is our "arrogance", and that they wouldn't hate us so much if we would just show some "humility".

Well, guess what? You made us this way. You wanted a villian, and you got one. I now wholly understand Yankee fans, when they embrace the fact that they bought their titles instead of apologizing for it. I admit no responsibility. I give no ground. My team is better than yours. My organization is better than yours. You can't beat us off the field, which is too bad because you sure as **** can't beat us on it. We beat you when we cheat. We beat you when we don't bother to cheat. Belichick is smarter than your coach. Brady is better than your QB. Our system is superior to yours, our city is better than yours, my dad can beat up your dad, your lunch tastes delicious, and you can't do a thing about any of it. And that burns you, bad.



Ok. Supervillian mode disengage.

Sports are supposed to be our diversion from the serious stuff. Unfortunately, it seems that there are a lot of human beings out there who take enormous pleasure in trying to take that away from complete strangers. People like Lakeshow seem to have heavy emotional investment in schadenfreude and spoiling others' enjoyment of a pasttime. They want to ruin it for us. If they can't beat us on the field, they want to make sure that the fan-experience is so foul for us that we can get no pleasure out of it. The very knowledge that Pats fans have had to go through the things I've described above makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside.

This whole thing - it's not really about "cheating". Never has been. It's the biggest red herring of all time. It's about people, and their need to get up on the soapbox and lecture and feel superior to others. Any opportunity for outrage and righteous indignation. Forget that we're talking about sports - this is your chance to look someone in the eye and make sure they know that you're better than them. Don't miss it! This is important!

I'm a Vikings fan. If someone told me that the Vikings would play in 6 superbowls over the next 15 years and win 4, but would be considered "CHEATERZ" by every other fanbase, I'd be ecstatic. Because in my mind: Success and Superbowls >>>>>>Salty Fanbases.

BTW, after watching "Do Your Job", I've gained a lot of respect for BB. He's prepared for everything the opponent can throw at him.

Exactly. Everyone gets on Carroll's case for calling that pass, but they don't want to give credit to the Patriots' preparation for being in exactly the right spot to make the break on the ball. It would have otherwise been an easy TD and everyone would be calling Carroll brilliant and gutsy for throwing a pass in that situation.

business as usual for patriots