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Even if the 16-0 Patriots had won the Super Bowl their playoff schedule was rather easy. The Dolphins' regular season schedule was rather easy during their 14-0 season as well. I haven't looked up the 15-1 49ers or Bears, but I'm more impressed with the 49ers dominating a 14-2 team than anything the Dolphins or Patriots had done. How does schedule factor into the greatest team of all time argument?

Schedule only means so much. You play who you play, and everyone is a professional team.

1977 Dallas Cowboys.

It doesn't. Higga nailed it. I go by a combination of record and eye test. I will tell you right now without looking at records that the early 90s Cowboys were insanely good. I'd bet money on the team that beat the Bills the first time over any 49ers team in the 80s or 70s Steeler team. I'm having a hard time placing the 2007 Patriots, not because they didn't finish in the SB, but because the SB exposed a flaw that a 70s Steeler team, 2000 Ravens or 90s Cowboy team could exploit which is getting significant pressure without bringing extra rushers. I think that Pats team would have dissected the 85 Bears, however. One thing to keep in mind is that the Niners dismantling the Broncos is probably a testament to John Elway's greatness as much as it was their own. John Elway essentially dragged a JV team to the Super Bowl three times. He faced great teams each time and understandably got clobbered. The 1986 Giants should probably be in this conversation too. They were devastating on defense and surgically efficient on offense.
Here's how I would sort it out if I were trying to rank them
1. 1992 Cowboys (their first of the 90s)
2. (tie) 1986 Giants, 1988? Niners (the team that beat the Broncos)
3. 1978 Steelers (offense peaked that year to compliment the defense)
4. 2007 Patriots
5. 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens Bears offense better, Ravens defense a little better. If it came down to coaching, Billick is smarter than Ditka.

Yeh I don't think the 2000 Ravens get enough credit. That defense was historically good.

The Regime wrote:Yeh I don't think the 2000 Ravens get enough credit. That defense was historically good.

It's easy for me to be a homer for that team, obviously, but Trent Dilfer always gets dismissed as a guy who was just lucky enough to be putting on a helmet, but the guy had made a Pro Bowl with the Bucs and their crappy receivers in a conference boasting Steve Young, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman and whoever may have been piloting those ridiculous Vikings offenses of the late 90s. Add to that, they had arguably the greatest receiving TE of all time, an all time great left tackle and future 10,000 yard rusher Jamal Lewis, who was backed up by a fellow named Priest Holmes.

RavenMad31 wrote:It doesn't. Higga nailed it. I go by a combination of record and eye test. I will tell you right now without looking at records that the early 90s Cowboys were insanely good. I'd bet money on the team that beat the Bills the first time over any 49ers team in the 80s or 70s Steeler team. I'm having a hard time placing the 2007 Patriots, not because they didn't finish in the SB, but because the SB exposed a flaw that a 70s Steeler team, 2000 Ravens or 90s Cowboy team could exploit which is getting significant pressure without bringing extra rushers. I think that Pats team would have dissected the 85 Bears, however. One thing to keep in mind is that the Niners dismantling the Broncos is probably a testament to John Elway's greatness as much as it was their own. John Elway essentially dragged a JV team to the Super Bowl three times. He faced great teams each time and understandably got clobbered. The 1986 Giants should probably be in this conversation too. They were devastating on defense and surgically efficient on offense.
Here's how I would sort it out if I were trying to rank them
1. 1992 Cowboys (their first of the 90s)
2. (tie) 1986 Giants, 1988? Niners (the team that beat the Broncos)
3. 1978 Steelers (offense peaked that year to compliment the defense)
4. 2007 Patriots
5. 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens Bears offense better, Ravens defense a little better. If it came down to coaching, Billick is smarter than Ditka.

If we're going by the eye test, how many games did you watch of the 1984 49ers?

Celtsfan1980 wrote:

RavenMad31 wrote:It doesn't. Higga nailed it. I go by a combination of record and eye test. I will tell you right now without looking at records that the early 90s Cowboys were insanely good. I'd bet money on the team that beat the Bills the first time over any 49ers team in the 80s or 70s Steeler team. I'm having a hard time placing the 2007 Patriots, not because they didn't finish in the SB, but because the SB exposed a flaw that a 70s Steeler team, 2000 Ravens or 90s Cowboy team could exploit which is getting significant pressure without bringing extra rushers. I think that Pats team would have dissected the 85 Bears, however. One thing to keep in mind is that the Niners dismantling the Broncos is probably a testament to John Elway's greatness as much as it was their own. John Elway essentially dragged a JV team to the Super Bowl three times. He faced great teams each time and understandably got clobbered. The 1986 Giants should probably be in this conversation too. They were devastating on defense and surgically efficient on offense.
Here's how I would sort it out if I were trying to rank them
1. 1992 Cowboys (their first of the 90s)
2. (tie) 1986 Giants, 1988? Niners (the team that beat the Broncos)
3. 1978 Steelers (offense peaked that year to compliment the defense)
4. 2007 Patriots
5. 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens Bears offense better, Ravens defense a little better. If it came down to coaching, Billick is smarter than Ditka.

If we're going by the eye test, how many games did you watch of the 1984 49ers?

Pretty much any that would have been on TV while I wasn't grounded. Lol. I only chose what I thought was the best season by the four main dynasties I have seen in my time. Also, I was pretty sure they still didn't have Rice or Haley in 1984, but looking it up, they had more points for, less against, slightly better divisional competition, a better record and still won their Super Bowl by a comfortable margin, so I can buy your plug for the 84 team.

Higga wrote:Schedule only means so much. You play who you play, and everyone is a professional team.

Especially in the NFL and NBA. Sentiment holds true for all sports, but any NFL or NBA team can win at any time.

truth18 wrote:

Higga wrote:Schedule only means so much. You play who you play, and everyone is a professional team.

Especially in the NFL and NBA. Sentiment holds true for all sports, but any NFL or NBA team can win at any time.

Well baseball even moreso. It is pretty rare for a MLB team to finish below 40% or above 60% winning percentage. There are often GREAT or TERRIBLE teams in the nfl or nba who rarely lose or rarely win.

As long as I've been watching football, since the early 80s, nobody seemed as good as the 85 Bears. I was shocked when Miami beat them, but then they took care of business after that and won the Super Bowl decisively. I never felt like the Ravens were nearly as dominant in their year.

As much as I hated them at the time, the Cowboys in I think 92 were crazy good too....the first year they beat Buffalo in the Super Bowl.

Those two teams stand out in my mind. Many Niners teams were good, but they were more because Montana rose to the occasion and would pull out close wins...sure they had some great players like Craig, Rice, Hanks and others, but those other teams seemed solid thoughout the whole lineup.

McMahon wasn't the greatest qb, but they were mostly a running team with one of the best running backs every. Dallas was just stacked all over.

Los Angeles Raiders. With USC' Marcus Allen as Superbowl MVP

LAKESHOW wrote:Los Angeles Raiders. With USC' Marcus Allen as Superbowl MVP

Just as a wildcard, I almost considered mentioning that team. The Redskins were a juggernaut that year and the Raiders shellacked them in every way you could possibly dismantle a team. Jim Plunkett played ugly, but was clutch as hell. That combo of Haynes and Hayes at CB was one of the best pairings ever, if not the best. They had Alzado and I believe rookie Howie Long. That team could have hung with any team who has ever won a Super Bowl.

bwgood77 wrote:As long as I've been watching football, since the early 80s, nobody seemed as good as the 85 Bears. I was shocked when Miami beat them, but then they took care of business after that and won the Super Bowl decisively. I never felt like the Ravens were nearly as dominant in their year.

As much as I hated them at the time, the Cowboys in I think 92 were crazy good too....the first year they beat Buffalo in the Super Bowl.

Those two teams stand out in my mind. Many Niners teams were good, but they were more because Montana rose to the occasion and would pull out close wins...sure they had some great players like Craig, Rice, Hanks and others, but those other teams seemed solid thoughout the whole lineup.

McMahon wasn't the greatest qb, but they were mostly a running team with one of the best running backs every. Dallas was just stacked all over.

As great as they were as a one off all time great team, their iconic status kind of skewers them a little beyond what they were in the context of all time teams. When splitting hairs, which is what we are doing here, that little bump from reputation can make a big difference. They were essentially the same team as the 2000 Ravens in many ways. Both with gutsy QBs who could rise to the occasion, they had the two best MLBs in history, both with great RBs (Ravens had Jamal Lewis AND Priest Holmes), Ravens actually allowed fewer points on the season in a more offense friendly time and didn't allow an offensive TD in their Super Bowl against a slightly better Giants offense than the '85 Patriots. Maybe if the 2000 Ravens had been the first team to make a video and Dilfer had worn sunglasses and a headband, that team would get more historical recognition. Also, Ditka couldn't outcoach a tackling dummy.
Those Niners teams were every bit as great as pretty much any team you can pick from history, though Hanks didn't play during the heyday of the Niners dynasty in the 80s. His era was the not-as-good-as-the-Cowboys-but-better-than-everyone-else 90s Niners.

Personally the best team I've ever seen play was the '07 Patriots, but unfortunately they didn't get the job done.

'85 Bears were before my time, I wasn't born 'till 1988.

Homer in me wants to say '91 Redskins, but again I was just 3 years old then, not like I saw them play, but they destroyed teams and had a dominant offense and defense.

RavenMad31 wrote:

LAKESHOW wrote:Los Angeles Raiders. With USC' Marcus Allen as Superbowl MVP

That combo of Haynes and Hayes at CB was one of the best pairings ever, if not the best. .

Yes, alzado and company were strong. But this pair! DIS PAIR! This combo of Haynes and hayes were in total lock down mode. Some say a great db can shut down half the field. How about 2 great dbs, shuttin down the whole thang!! I believe it was 1 or zero catches. Someone do the research. But that was the greatest lockdown in history. And oh yeah, Marcus Allen was on fire!

I didn't really watch the '85 Bears, but looking what they did defensively in the playoffs is amazing. Back to back shutouts, before the 45-10 rout in the playoffs.
Their defense actually outscored their opponents in the playoffs.

RavenMad31 wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:As long as I've been watching football, since the early 80s, nobody seemed as good as the 85 Bears. I was shocked when Miami beat them, but then they took care of business after that and won the Super Bowl decisively. I never felt like the Ravens were nearly as dominant in their year.

As much as I hated them at the time, the Cowboys in I think 92 were crazy good too....the first year they beat Buffalo in the Super Bowl.

Those two teams stand out in my mind. Many Niners teams were good, but they were more because Montana rose to the occasion and would pull out close wins...sure they had some great players like Craig, Rice, Hanks and others, but those other teams seemed solid thoughout the whole lineup.

McMahon wasn't the greatest qb, but they were mostly a running team with one of the best running backs every. Dallas was just stacked all over.

As great as they were as a one off all time great team, their iconic status kind of skewers them a little beyond what they were in the context of all time teams. When splitting hairs, which is what we are doing here, that little bump from reputation can make a big difference. They were essentially the same team as the 2000 Ravens in many ways. Both with gutsy QBs who could rise to the occasion, they had the two best MLBs in history, both with great RBs (Ravens had Jamal Lewis AND Priest Holmes), Ravens actually allowed fewer points on the season in a more offense friendly time and didn't allow an offensive TD in their Super Bowl against a slightly better Giants offense than the '85 Patriots. Maybe if the 2000 Ravens had been the first team to make a video and Dilfer had worn sunglasses and a headband, that team would get more historical recognition. Also, Ditka couldn't outcoach a tackling dummy.
Those Niners teams were every bit as great as pretty much any team you can pick from history, though Hanks didn't play during the heyday of the Niners dynasty in the 80s. His era was the not-as-good-as-the-Cowboys-but-better-than-everyone-else 90s Niners.

I don't think it's the video that made them better, nor the glasses or headband. But they seemed unbeatable. They lost once the whole season. The Ravens lost 4 times. I never felt like the Bears had any chance of losing. I don't even know if the Ravens were favored against the Raiders in the AFC Championship. I think them beating the Raiders was kind of surprising. No one thought the Bears were going to lose. Not because of the video or headband, but because they seemed unbeatable.

bwgood77 wrote:

RavenMad31 wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:As long as I've been watching football, since the early 80s, nobody seemed as good as the 85 Bears. I was shocked when Miami beat them, but then they took care of business after that and won the Super Bowl decisively. I never felt like the Ravens were nearly as dominant in their year.

As much as I hated them at the time, the Cowboys in I think 92 were crazy good too....the first year they beat Buffalo in the Super Bowl.

Those two teams stand out in my mind. Many Niners teams were good, but they were more because Montana rose to the occasion and would pull out close wins...sure they had some great players like Craig, Rice, Hanks and others, but those other teams seemed solid thoughout the whole lineup.

McMahon wasn't the greatest qb, but they were mostly a running team with one of the best running backs every. Dallas was just stacked all over.

As great as they were as a one off all time great team, their iconic status kind of skewers them a little beyond what they were in the context of all time teams. When splitting hairs, which is what we are doing here, that little bump from reputation can make a big difference. They were essentially the same team as the 2000 Ravens in many ways. Both with gutsy QBs who could rise to the occasion, they had the two best MLBs in history, both with great RBs (Ravens had Jamal Lewis AND Priest Holmes), Ravens actually allowed fewer points on the season in a more offense friendly time and didn't allow an offensive TD in their Super Bowl against a slightly better Giants offense than the '85 Patriots. Maybe if the 2000 Ravens had been the first team to make a video and Dilfer had worn sunglasses and a headband, that team would get more historical recognition. Also, Ditka couldn't outcoach a tackling dummy.
Those Niners teams were every bit as great as pretty much any team you can pick from history, though Hanks didn't play during the heyday of the Niners dynasty in the 80s. His era was the not-as-good-as-the-Cowboys-but-better-than-everyone-else 90s Niners.

I don't think it's the video that made them better, nor the glasses or headband. But they seemed unbeatable. They lost once the whole season. The Ravens lost 4 times. I never felt like the Bears had any chance of losing. I don't even know if the Ravens were favored against the Raiders in the AFC Championship. I think them beating the Raiders was kind of surprising. No one thought the Bears were going to lose. Not because of the video or headband, but because they seemed unbeatable.

And that's a fair argument. None of these other teams had to feel their way around for half a season which the Ravens had to do before settling in and realizing their greatness. In the context of this discussion, they were 12-4, but do recall that initially, they were QBed by Tony Banks and at one stretch went, I believe, four games without an offensive TD. Depending on if you are a glass half full or glass half empty kind of guy, that is really remarkably impressive or pretty crappy. But, with Dilfer installed as the starter, the team got rolling and became one of the historically great one-off teams. Of course the video didn't make them better, nor did they need a video to hype themselves. Their play stood up on its own, but when you start looking at a team in the rear view mirror, those sorts of things tend to add to the legend and help embellish something that didn't even need embellishing. The Ravens were in a smaller market and were a very new franchise to begin with, so they didn't have the national attention that a marquee franchise like the Bears can grab when they are good unless we are having a washed up RB punching his gf.

LAKESHOW wrote:

RavenMad31 wrote:

LAKESHOW wrote:Los Angeles Raiders. With USC' Marcus Allen as Superbowl MVP

That combo of Haynes and Hayes at CB was one of the best pairings ever, if not the best. .

Yes, alzado and company were strong. But this pair! DIS PAIR! This combo of Haynes and hayes were in total lock down mode. Some say a great db can shut down half the field. How about 2 great dbs, shuttin down the whole thang!! I believe it was 1 or zero catches. Someone do the research. But that was the greatest lockdown in history. And oh yeah, Marcus Allen was on fire!

Charlie Brown and Art Monk, one of the more feared tandems of receivers in the league that season, combined for 4 receptions, 119 yards and no TDs. Theisman did most of his "damage" throwing to his TE and receiving back.