Where would you rank Drew Brees on the alltime list?

BlaugranaCule07 · Post #1 » by **BlaugranaCule07** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:16 pm

He's put up similar numbers like Manning and Brady with less talent.

RavenMad31 · Post #2 » by **RavenMad31** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:58 pm

Top 2-5. No lower. I don't even think you can put Montana in that conversation with some of the QB play we are seeing in the last 15-20 years, so that takes him out along with Elway and probably even Marino.

yellowknifer · Post #3 » by **yellowknifer** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:04 pm

Somewhere in the top 10 or 15. Becoming difficult to compare eras however.

ErnieDiGregorio · Post #4 » by **ErnieDiGregorio** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:30 pm

I have him on a bunch of free fantasy teams,so I'm fine with Brees lol

RavenMad31 · Post #5 » by **RavenMad31** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:06 pm

yellowknifer wrote:Somewhere in the top 10 or 15. Becoming difficult to compare eras however.

He is #1 all time in completion percentage, #7 in passer rating, #3 in TDs and #4 in total yards. He's shown he can win the big one when he is playing for a championship caliber team. There is no way in hell a serious conversation even begins without him at least in the top 7.

yellowknifer · Post #6 » by **yellowknifer** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:08 pm

RavenMad31 wrote:
yellowknifer wrote:Somewhere in the top 10 or 15. Becoming difficult to compare eras however.

He is #1 all time in completion percentage, #7 in passer rating, #3 in TDs and #4 in total yards. He's shown he can win the big one when he is playing for a championship caliber team. There is no way in hell a serious conversation even begins without him at least in the top 7.

He also played in the easiest era to pass, by far, in history.

RavenMad31 · Post #7 » by **RavenMad31** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:39 pm

yellowknifer wrote:
RavenMad31 wrote:
yellowknifer wrote:Somewhere in the top 10 or 15. Becoming difficult to compare eras however.

He is #1 all time in completion percentage, #7 in passer rating, #3 in TDs and #4 in total yards. He's shown he can win the big one when he is playing for a championship caliber team. There is no way in hell a serious conversation even begins without him at least in the top 7.

He also played in the easiest era to pass, by far, in history.

There is no way I even consider anyone who played the bulk of their career before the 70s. Half those guys were playing drunk/hungover and smoked two packs a day. The Coryell Chargers offense didn't look much different than the offenses you see today and the West Coast offense that Walsh introduced is still the predominant system today. All you can do is argue results if you even want to bring up these all time discussions because everything else is just conjecture. Who's to say that if you dropped a duo like Calvin Johnson/Matt Stafford into the 70s where they allowed more contact that Johnson wouldn't throw the DBs around with more impunity than he could get away with in the 2000s?

Post #8 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:02 am

yellowknifer wrote:
RavenMad31 wrote:
yellowknifer wrote:Somewhere in the top 10 or 15. Becoming difficult to compare eras however.

He is #1 all time in completion percentage, #7 in passer rating, #3 in TDs and #4 in total yards. He's shown he can win the big one when he is playing for a championship caliber team. There is no way in hell a serious conversation even begins without him at least in the top 7.

He also played in the easiest era to pass, by far, in history.

But he still stands out statistically even in his own era. His last 10 years in New Orleans is probably the best 10 year statistical stretch by a QB. Great post season play too.

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yellowknifer · Post #9 » by **yellowknifer** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:18 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:
yellowknifer wrote:
RavenMad31 wrote:He is #1 all time in completion percentage, #7 in passer rating, #3 in TDs and #4 in total yards. He's shown he can win the big one when he is playing for a championship caliber team. There is no way in hell a serious conversation even begins without him at least in the top 7.

He also played in the easiest era to pass, by far, in history.

But he still stands out statistically even in his own era. His last 10 years in New Orleans is probably the best 10 year statistical stretch by a QB. Great post season play too.

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I have a lot of respect for Brees, however you probably won't like this, but a lot of his teams were not winners. He put up a lot of garbage time numbers at times. Payton is pretty well established for letting him sling it long after the game is over to pad his stats. His numbers are impressive, no question. I don't think they tell the whole story which is why I have him around 10-15 and not top 5 like it appears some do.

RavenMad31 · Post #10 » by **RavenMad31** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:06 pm

yellowknifer wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:
yellowknifer wrote:
He also played in the easiest era to pass, by far, in history.

But he still stands out statistically even in his own era. His last 10 years in New Orleans is probably the best 10 year statistical stretch by a QB. Great post season play too.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I have a lot of respect for Brees, however you probably won't like this, but a lot of his teams were not winners. He put up a lot of garbage time numbers at times. Payton is pretty well established for letting him sling it long after the game is over to pad his stats. His numbers are impressive, no question. I don't think they tell the whole story which is why I have him around 10-15 and not top 5 like it appears some do.

Seven of his ten full seasons in New Orleans have featured a 20th or worse ranked defense.
To truly appreciate Brees, one needs to keep the franchise for which he is playing in perspective. He has 94 wins and 66 losses (now 67) with the Saints. Bobby Hebert is the only other QB of note to post a winning record as a starting QB and the day they signed Brees, the franchise had only one playoff win to its name. Ever. They won their division only twice in 40 years previous to Brees and have since won 3 times. They have won a Super Bowl with him. So no, that crap stain of a franchise doesn't have it together to take full advantage of what he has done for them, but to hold it against him for what is actually a pretty impressive record in light of its context is not fair.
All the other stuff is again conjecture if you are comparing quality of game time. You have 60 minutes to complete passes and the other team is generally trying to stop you from doing that. A career is way to big of a sample size to be skewed with "garbage time" and it'd be an impossible task to even try to measure what would be considered garbage time.

yellowknifer · Post #11 » by **yellowknifer** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:22 pm

Brees puts up a lot of garbage time numbers. He had that passing TD consecutive game thing - Payton really went out of his way to make sure it happened even risking his health at times. I doubt many Saints fans will deny this. But yes, it is a large sample size. I still think Payton's philosophy skewed his numbers drastically. It's not just the garbage time (which is a thing), it's the overall pass pass and then pass some more philosophy many other coaches do not share. It also effected his numbers in terms of counting.

So, while I appreciate the skills I feel like he's a notch below Montana or Brady. I put him around #4/5 in the league right now. How can I justify putting him #5 all time? I have Rodgers, Brady and Wilson ahead of Brees current day definitively - with Rivers/Roethlisberger debateably ahead as well. And Brees current day isn't much different than Brees past (probably better in a lot of ways). Maybe I'm underselling him, but that's how I feel.

bluejerseyjinx · Post #12 » by **bluejerseyjinx** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:23 pm

Its hard to put any QB on a all time list. Rules are different today and the majority of the QB's playing today would not last 3 years back in the 60's and 70's. So its really hard to gauge. Stats don't always tell the story.

RavenMad31 · Post #13 » by **RavenMad31** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:03 pm

bluejerseyjinx wrote:Its hard to put any QB on a all time list. Rules are different today and the majority of the QB's playing today would not last 3 years back in the 60's and 70's. So its really hard to gauge. Stats don't always tell the story.

Lol. No kidding. Their lungs and livers are way too pink with clean living and year round training to survive the bar hopping and cigarette smoking it took to play back then. Well, Manziel could.

yellowknifer wrote:Brees puts up a lot of garbage time numbers. He had that passing TD consecutive game thing - Payton really went out of his way to make sure it happened even risking his health at times. I doubt many Saints fans will deny this. But yes, it is a large sample size. I still think Payton's philosophy skewed his numbers drastically. It's not just the garbage time (which is a thing), it's the overall pass pass and then pass some more philosophy many other coaches do not share. It also effected his numbers in terms of counting.

So, while I appreciate the skills I feel like he's a notch below Montana or Brady. I put him around #4/5 in the league right now. How can I justify putting him #5 all time? I have Rodgers, Brady and Wilson ahead of Brees current day definitively - with Rivers/Roethlisberger debateably ahead as well. And Brees current day isn't much different than Brees past (probably better in a lot of ways). Maybe I'm underselling him, but that's how I feel.

Again, I just don't accept that any significant time in the NFL is to be considered garbage time, especially when one is playing on a team that usually had a garbage defense. Trying to quantify that on top of eras on top of coaching philosophies brings so many variables into an all time great debate that it paralyzes the discussion. The fact is that he has accomplished milestones that only a small handful of others have and his all time ranking should reflect that. I'm not going to, in effect, penalize a guy 10-20k of his yards because in my opinion I thought they were somehow earned more cheaply than someone else. They are there. They are a historical fact and they were earned against NFL defenses doing their best to prevent said yardage, TDs, completions and wins.