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Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:40 pm
by atlantabbq99
Tue Sep 9, 2014 4:54 am
Jadeveon Clowney Out 4-6 Weeks With Knee Surgery........
It has only been one week, but it looks like Clowney's story is slowly turning into that same old story of a high prospect who is a monster on the field but struggles with injuries.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=134454011 games into already his 3rd season, Clowney only has 3 sack. Can Clowney still turn it around or is he officially a bust?
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:04 pm
by Otis Driftwood
I say at this point it isn't even close. Dude's a bust. Maybe not a Top 10 bust but a bust nonetheless.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:07 pm
by Cactus Jack
Yes. Considering talent like Mack, Odell, Aaron Donald, etc. were available in that draft.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:20 pm
by FNQ
He's been excellent this season.. the sacks arent there with teams keying in on him, but he has 12 TFLs, 2nd in the league. I definitely wouldnt call him a bust, a bust is someone who's gone after his 1st contract. Houston will keep him, and he'll continue to be a quality defensive player.
He is being outperformed by people drafted after him, sure, but I dont think that defines him as a bust. Now Greg Robinson... that's a bust.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Thu Dec 1, 2016 11:41 am
by nybluemeadow
Clowney is a bust, but he can still save his career if he moves to DT. Clowney has good penetration and good strength but just doesn't have the speed to be an NFL DE/OLB.
Clowney is just like Justin Smith of the Bengals and 49ers. Justin Smith struggled when the Bengals played him at DE, but then when the 49ers moved him to DT, that is when Smith broke out and became an elite NFL player and made 6 straight pro bowls.
I see the same with Clowney. Clowney is already big at 270lbs, if he can add another 10lbs, i think he can move to DT and become an elite DT for the next 10 years.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Thu Dec 1, 2016 2:07 pm
by Mich3006
FNQ wrote:He's been excellent this season.. the sacks arent there with teams keying in on him, but he has 12 TFLs, 2nd in the league. I definitely wouldnt call him a bust, a bust is someone who's gone after his 1st contract. Houston will keep him, and he'll continue to be a quality defensive player.
He is being outperformed by people drafted after him, sure, but I dont think that defines him as a bust. Now Greg Robinson... that's a bust.
You can´t say he´s a bust while the Texans playing solid defense without Watt but like you said, guys like Mack and Donald would´ve been a much better draft choice.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Thu Dec 1, 2016 5:43 pm
by FNQ
nybluemeadow wrote:Clowney is a bust, but he can still save his career if he moves to DT. Clowney has good penetration and good strength but just doesn't have the speed to be an NFL DE/OLB.
Clowney is just like Justin Smith of the Bengals and 49ers. Justin Smith struggled when the Bengals played him at DE, but then when the 49ers moved him to DT, that is when Smith broke out and became an elite NFL player and made 6 straight pro bowls.
I see the same with Clowney. Clowney is already big at 270lbs, if he can add another 10lbs, i think he can move to DT and become an elite DT for the next 10 years.
Clowney has been doing excellent at DE.. do you guys only value sacks here? He's stepped into Watt's position and been a key player for them, he just hasn't had the sacks. You don't have 12 TFL after 12 games if you're struggling.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Fri Dec 2, 2016 1:30 am
by LAKESHOW
I'm thinking there is a metric. Like if your 4.4, you are not a defensive end. Too frail. Too thin. Too injury prone. The thicker bones produce like 4.7 and up. Or something like that. But if your running 4.4, your too skinny. No, not doctrine. Just guessing some numbers .
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Fri Dec 2, 2016 2:14 am
by orlandomanic
FNQ wrote:nybluemeadow wrote:Clowney is a bust, but he can still save his career if he moves to DT. Clowney has good penetration and good strength but just doesn't have the speed to be an NFL DE/OLB.
Clowney is just like Justin Smith of the Bengals and 49ers. Justin Smith struggled when the Bengals played him at DE, but then when the 49ers moved him to DT, that is when Smith broke out and became an elite NFL player and made 6 straight pro bowls.
I see the same with Clowney. Clowney is already big at 270lbs, if he can add another 10lbs, i think he can move to DT and become an elite DT for the next 10 years.
Clowney has been doing excellent at DE.. do you guys only value sacks here? He's stepped into Watt's position and been a key player for them, he just hasn't had the sacks. You don't have 12 TFL after 12 games if you're struggling.
If he is good at getting TFL then that means he is good at playing the run, so moving to DT would make more sense because the other team couldn't just run to the opposite side.
But ya i agree, Clowney has good power but no speed and is a bust. I watched one NFL game of Clowney and he was pretty much invisible the whole game, he got stuffed ever time he tried to get the edge and just wasn't putting any pressure on the QB, he just looked really slow. i'm really glad that the Bucs didn't trade up for him and ended up getting Evans.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Fri Dec 2, 2016 2:30 pm
by El Turco
he is not a generational player some expected him to become since high school but he is still a very good defensive end.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Fri Dec 2, 2016 4:51 pm
by FNQ
orlandomanic wrote:FNQ wrote:nybluemeadow wrote:Clowney is a bust, but he can still save his career if he moves to DT. Clowney has good penetration and good strength but just doesn't have the speed to be an NFL DE/OLB.
Clowney is just like Justin Smith of the Bengals and 49ers. Justin Smith struggled when the Bengals played him at DE, but then when the 49ers moved him to DT, that is when Smith broke out and became an elite NFL player and made 6 straight pro bowls.
I see the same with Clowney. Clowney is already big at 270lbs, if he can add another 10lbs, i think he can move to DT and become an elite DT for the next 10 years.
Clowney has been doing excellent at DE.. do you guys only value sacks here? He's stepped into Watt's position and been a key player for them, he just hasn't had the sacks. You don't have 12 TFL after 12 games if you're struggling.
If he is good at getting TFL then that means he is good at playing the run, so moving to DT would make more sense because the other team couldn't just run to the opposite side.
But ya i agree, Clowney has good power but no speed and is a bust. I watched one NFL game of Clowney and he was pretty much invisible the whole game, he got stuffed ever time he tried to get the edge and just wasn't putting any pressure on the QB, he just looked really slow. i'm really glad that the Bucs didn't trade up for him and ended up getting Evans.
Well we don't agree - Clowney is not a bust. And if you are basing what you think solely on one game, I think that's unwise.
Khalil Mack started the exact same way - he started with only a few QB hits but excelled in TFL and pressures generated. Based on what you are saying, you'd have Mack lining up at DT (FWIW, we have, when its 3rd and long and Mario was healthy). Then he became a sack artist. Now he's doubled all the time. And also watching the Texans in 4 separate games - all post Watt - Clowney is getting double teamed and opening up JAGs like Mercilus and John Simon to get loose. Also should note that McKinney (ILB) lines up on the same side as Clowney, and due to the attention Clowney gets, and to a lesser extent Cushing, McKinney is piling up the tackles this year.
But considering the Texans run a 3-4, moving Clowney to NT would be an extremely unwise move. He's looking to be an above average DE with sack upside, and if they keep him there alongside Watt, the Texans defense will be truly scary moving forward
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Fri Dec 2, 2016 4:52 pm
by FNQ
Arda K wrote:he is not a generational player some expected him to become since high school but he is still a very good defensive end.
Agreed. I feel this is more about how you define bust: is a disappointment a bust? Because Clowney was tagged to be a world beater, and he's not that, but he's still a good player. To me a bust is a bad player... if anyone has Clowney as a bad player, I think they are way too focused on counting stats and not actual impact
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Fri Dec 2, 2016 6:14 pm
by Otis Driftwood
FNQ wrote:Arda K wrote:he is not a generational player some expected him to become since high school but he is still a very good defensive end.
Agreed. I feel this is more about how you define bust: is a disappointment a bust? Because Clowney was tagged to be a world beater, and he's not that, but he's still a good player. To me a bust is a bad player... if anyone has Clowney as a bad player, I think they are way too focused on counting stats and not actual impact
Good points and more than fair. An example would be when the Cowboys drafted Russell Maryland back in 1991. No one ever thought he was going to be a Hall-of-Famer at the time of the draft and the Cowboys were heavily criticized for taking him with the overall #1 pick. But Jimmy Johnson saw him filling a glaring need at DT which he did extremely well.
Clowney isn't a bad player. He certainly isn't what the Texans envisioned him being either. So - as you say - it comes down to what you define a bust being.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Fri Dec 2, 2016 6:20 pm
by LAKESHOW
I don't understand running a 3-4 defense, with 2 premiere defensive lineman. I understand the scheme very well. But stick those 2 into a 4-3 gap defense, that would carve up and slice up offenses.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Sat Dec 3, 2016 7:28 pm
by Otis Driftwood
Then again... if you aren't on the field, you aren't helping.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Sat Dec 3, 2016 7:56 pm
by RaoulDuke79
Hurt again, and he was finally staying healthy and playing really well.
Thanks for the jinx thread, taint muffins!
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Sat Dec 3, 2016 8:00 pm
by Otis Driftwood
RaoulDuke79 wrote:Hurt again, and he was finally staying healthy and playing really well.
Thanks for the jinx thread, taint muffins!
Happy to help. You're welcome.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Sat Dec 3, 2016 8:13 pm
by RaoulDuke79
Otis Driftwood wrote:RaoulDuke79 wrote:Hurt again, and he was finally staying healthy and playing really well.
Thanks for the jinx thread, taint muffins!
Happy to help. You're welcome.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Sun Dec 4, 2016 3:16 pm
by bluejerseyjinx
I wouldn't give Clowney a mop job. Major bust.
Re: Is Jadeveon Clowney a bust?
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:13 am
by FNQ
#1 overall bust Clowney named to Pro Bowl
