Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With?

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Re: Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With? 

Post#21 » by bmurph128 » Wed Nov 8, 2017 5:31 pm

Worm Guts wrote:I think FGs add to the drama and decision making. And if you're going to remove the kicker, you might as well remove the punter.



I've been waiting for a guy that can be an elite punter AND FG kicker. Would save a team a roster spot which would be hugely beneficial
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Re: Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With? 

Post#22 » by bmurph128 » Wed Nov 8, 2017 5:39 pm

Bulltalk wrote:In all major teams sports, give me anything comparable to the placekicker in terms of its oddity yet significance?

--Goalie in hockey? Yes, odd in the sense that they don't skate around like the other players, but no in the sense that they're actually on the ice a significant portion of the time.

--Goalie in soccer? Somewhat like above.

--Basketball? No, all players are basketball players, but with varying skill sets.

--Pitcher or DH in baseball? Yes, pitchers are different than everyday players, but they are consistently involved in the game; and DH's are only different than regular everyday players in that they don't play defense.

I don't think any players in these above sports would look upon such goalies, pitchers, DH's in the same way players would look upon the placekicker in football. I wonder if you anonymously polled NFL players about doing away with the placekicker and letting real football players decide the game if they would come down on my side of the issue?

Get rid of the placekicker, I say. Let real football players decide the game. Add more real offense and offensive plays to the game. Make it more exciting in that way.



This post makes no sense. You can't compare football to any other sports. There's no position equivalent for ANY football position. What's the basketball equivalent of a DT? DE? LB? CB? S?

In hockey and soccer, all but one player on each team plays both offense and defense - which make them similar to baseball in that way, except for when a pitcher hits (but then sometimes a goalie gets pulled..)

While you're focusing on a kicker, what you fail to realize is that of the 46 active players on game day, you probably end up with about 15 on defense, 15 on offense and 15 on special teams. So sure, get rid of special teams. Cut one third of the positions available on a roster while we're at it.

And, you know, guys that made a team because of special teams that later turned into stars - just forget about them, because they would have been cut.

Ironically, the guys that play special teams are actually more "real football players" than guys that just play offense or defense.
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Re: Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With? 

Post#23 » by Cactus Jack » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:01 pm

Otis Driftwood wrote:
RaoulDuke79 wrote:
Cactus Jack wrote:Whataburger is Burger King/Carls Jr. of the South lol. In-n-Out by a landslide. :wink:


Blasphemy.


See what happens to people that live in the Northwest?

No wonder the suicide rate is so high. Between the lack of a quality hamburger and $20 coffee, I'm not sure I could deal with it either.

Yeah, life sucks. :wink:
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Re: Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With? 

Post#24 » by Bulltalk » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:04 pm

bmurph128 wrote:
Bulltalk wrote:In all major teams sports, give me anything comparable to the placekicker in terms of its oddity yet significance?

--Goalie in hockey? Yes, odd in the sense that they don't skate around like the other players, but no in the sense that they're actually on the ice a significant portion of the time.

--Goalie in soccer? Somewhat like above.

--Basketball? No, all players are basketball players, but with varying skill sets.

--Pitcher or DH in baseball? Yes, pitchers are different than everyday players, but they are consistently involved in the game; and DH's are only different than regular everyday players in that they don't play defense.

I don't think any players in these above sports would look upon such goalies, pitchers, DH's in the same way players would look upon the placekicker in football. I wonder if you anonymously polled NFL players about doing away with the placekicker and letting real football players decide the game if they would come down on my side of the issue?

Get rid of the placekicker, I say. Let real football players decide the game. Add more real offense and offensive plays to the game. Make it more exciting in that way.



This post makes no sense. You can't compare football to any other sports. There's no position equivalent for ANY football position. What's the basketball equivalent of a DT? DE? LB? CB? S?

In hockey and soccer, all but one player on each team plays both offense and defense - which make them similar to baseball in that way, except for when a pitcher hits (but then sometimes a goalie gets pulled..)

While you're focusing on a kicker, what you fail to realize is that of the 46 active players on game day, you probably end up with about 15 on defense, 15 on offense and 15 on special teams. So sure, get rid of special teams. Cut one third of the positions available on a roster while we're at it.

And, you know, guys that made a team because of special teams that later turned into stars - just forget about them, because they would have been cut.

Ironically, the guys that play special teams are actually more "real football players" than guys that just play offense or defense.


First off, I didn't say get rid of special teams. I said the FG and extra point that's kicked. There would still be kickoffs and punts. Those are special teams, aren't they? No? You got me wrong there. Admit that much.

And I can't help it if you're unable to see the oddity yet significance of the placekicker in the NFL. Such a thing makes perfect sense to me. To me, there is nothing quite like it or comparable in team sports in this way. Most people thinking about such a thing are going to defend the placekicking part of the game out of familiarity and tradition more than anything else, that human nature thing that's resistant to change. I get that. I was merely thinking outside the box, thinking about ways to make the game more exciting, letting real football players and real football plays decide the outcome of the game, not some sort-of-but-not-really football player.

Hey, I was just bringing up an idea, a different way of looking and thinking about the game. That's all.

PS> I did a little Google research and found that this idea was a little more prevalent that I thought it would be. Here's one such article I found which kind of gets at what I've been saying.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/20/why-stop-at-changing-the-extra-point-lets-get-rid-of-nfl-kickers-altogether
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Re: Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With? 

Post#25 » by bmurph128 » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:39 pm

Bulltalk wrote:
bmurph128 wrote:
Bulltalk wrote:In all major teams sports, give me anything comparable to the placekicker in terms of its oddity yet significance?

--Goalie in hockey? Yes, odd in the sense that they don't skate around like the other players, but no in the sense that they're actually on the ice a significant portion of the time.

--Goalie in soccer? Somewhat like above.

--Basketball? No, all players are basketball players, but with varying skill sets.

--Pitcher or DH in baseball? Yes, pitchers are different than everyday players, but they are consistently involved in the game; and DH's are only different than regular everyday players in that they don't play defense.

I don't think any players in these above sports would look upon such goalies, pitchers, DH's in the same way players would look upon the placekicker in football. I wonder if you anonymously polled NFL players about doing away with the placekicker and letting real football players decide the game if they would come down on my side of the issue?

Get rid of the placekicker, I say. Let real football players decide the game. Add more real offense and offensive plays to the game. Make it more exciting in that way.



This post makes no sense. You can't compare football to any other sports. There's no position equivalent for ANY football position. What's the basketball equivalent of a DT? DE? LB? CB? S?

In hockey and soccer, all but one player on each team plays both offense and defense - which make them similar to baseball in that way, except for when a pitcher hits (but then sometimes a goalie gets pulled..)

While you're focusing on a kicker, what you fail to realize is that of the 46 active players on game day, you probably end up with about 15 on defense, 15 on offense and 15 on special teams. So sure, get rid of special teams. Cut one third of the positions available on a roster while we're at it.

And, you know, guys that made a team because of special teams that later turned into stars - just forget about them, because they would have been cut.

Ironically, the guys that play special teams are actually more "real football players" than guys that just play offense or defense.


First off, I didn't say get rid of special teams. I said the FG and extra point that's kicked. There would still be kickoffs and punts. Those are special teams, aren't they? No? You got me wrong there. Admit that much.

And I can't help it if you're unable to see the oddity yet significance of the placekicker in the NFL. Such a thing makes perfect sense to me. To me, there is nothing quite like it or comparable in team sports in this way. Most people thinking about such a thing are going to defend the placekicking part of the game out of familiarity and tradition more than anything else, that human nature thing that's resistant to change. I get that. I was merely thinking outside the box, thinking about ways to make the game more exciting, letting real football players and real football plays decide the outcome of the game, not some sort-of-but-not-really football player.

Hey, I was just bringing up an idea, a different way of looking and thinking about the game. That's all.



You're right, you didn't say get rid of special teams.

I don't think a place kicker is an oddity, and while it may seem like it has more significance, I don't think they do. You can say that a team lost a game because of a FG kicker, but there are always other plays in the game that the "real football players" could have made.

It's all about what you emphasize on your team. Seattle signed a guy that missed a game winning chip shot FG against them in the playoffs - so they knew first hand what they were getting. Should have re-signed Haushka, who was awesome for them.

But Seattle is all about defense. When Washington got the ball, Seattle had already won time of possession for the game - so being tired couldn't have been an excuse - Seattle built their team around defense. So you're winning 14-10 with 90 seconds left to play and you have your best unit on the field. I think every team would take that.

Look at a game where the kicker actually missed a game tying/winning FG - why was the team in that situation in the first place? The offense could have gotten more yards. The kicker seems like it has more significance because what he does or doesn't do directly leads to points - but there is often more going on.

Greg Zuerlein has missed one FG this year - you can probably remember which one. It was a chip shot against the Seahawks. Seattle went on to get a FG themselves and take a 13-10 lead, which is the score that remained until late in the 4th when the Rams turned the ball over and lead to another FG for Seattle.

Even assuming everything else played out the same way, that game would have gone to OT if he had made that FG (and if he makes another at the end of the game when the Rams were on Seattle's 20 yard line). Given how dominant the Rams defense played that day, I would have felt good about winning that game in OT.

But I don't put that game on him. The offense turned the ball over 5 times, and Seattle's only TD drive took Wilson running around for 2 minutes and throwing 6 yard passes all the way down the field - even though the offense was primary let down in that game and the defense played great, I don't feel like Seattle should have even scored a TD in that game.
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Re: Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With? 

Post#26 » by bluejerseyjinx » Thu Nov 9, 2017 5:45 am

Cactus Jack wrote:
Otis Driftwood wrote:
RaoulDuke79 wrote:
Blasphemy.


See what happens to people that live in the Northwest?

No wonder the suicide rate is so high. Between the lack of a quality hamburger and $20 coffee, I'm not sure I could deal with it either.

Yeah, life sucks. :wink:

I never understood why people get so upset when their team loses, :lol:
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Re: Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With? 

Post#27 » by Otis Driftwood » Thu Nov 9, 2017 1:18 pm

bluejerseyjinx wrote:
Cactus Jack wrote:
Otis Driftwood wrote:
See what happens to people that live in the Northwest?

No wonder the suicide rate is so high. Between the lack of a quality hamburger and $20 coffee, I'm not sure I could deal with it either.

Yeah, life sucks. :wink:

I never understood why people get so upset when their team loses, :lol:


Spoken like someone who has seen this mindset first hand.

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Re: Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With? 

Post#28 » by bluejerseyjinx » Thu Nov 9, 2017 2:34 pm

Otis Driftwood wrote:
bluejerseyjinx wrote:
Cactus Jack wrote:Yeah, life sucks. :wink:

I never understood why people get so upset when their team loses, :lol:


Spoken like someone who has seen this mindset first hand.

:rock:

I couldn't resist my friend. :wink: Those poor Sea Hawk fans. :waaa: :cry:
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Re: Getting Rid of the Placekicker: What Would You Replace It With? 

Post#29 » by DrKnick » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:33 pm

2-point conversion every time?

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