The Kaepernick-Manziel Comparisons need to stop

[6ixgrod]

I can't understand why people put them in the same world. One has an excellent track record at the NFL level, the other is Johnny Manziel. Kaep should be on a team, Manziel should be given a fighting chance to fix his life, end of story.


https://grandstandcentral.com/the-colin-kaepernick-johnny-manziel-comparisons-need-to-end-1b0ccf1059ac

[righterwriter]

They are totally different, but not for the reasons Manziel put out there.

Manziel had the talent but his misbehavior and lack of commitment to the game got him out of the league. If he proves that he's humbled himself and that he still has NFL ability, he'll likely get another shot on a cheap contract.

Kapernick was a system QB when no defensive coordinator was prepared for the run option. As opposing teams caught on, he became a substandard starting QB. Three different OCs tried to make him a more traditional dropback passer, even super simplifying the offense to minimize his lack of ability to need to make reads and let the play develop. What ensued was one of the NFL's worst offenses for his last two years due to his penchant for short gains, inaccuracy, and taking sacks. It's not that different than what happened with RGIII, who also couldn't find a job last year.

When he put himself out as the proponent of a very unpopular protest amongst the majority of fans (one which had no specific message, but was just against inequality and police brutality) any chance that he had to get a very highly coveted job as a backup QB went away.

Backup QB jobs are filled by players that act as the scout team QB, meaning they have to be able to mimic the opposing team's QB in the week before practice. This requires study, understanding different offenses, and usually the basic ability to be a traditional QB. Backup QBs also help prepare the starting QB for his upcoming week by studying with him, teaching him as necessary, and giving his full commitment as a humble supporting player during the preparatory process. Kaepernick has never shown that ability nor that kind of attitude as he brought the focus onto himself more and more. In addition, should the starter go down with an injury Kaepernick can't just step into a traditional offense and be effective, making his role as a backup really null.

Look around the league and look at how many guys who have been personal distractions still have a job, particularly so for backups. The only one I can think of right now is Ryan Mallett (although he's an unsigned FA currently) and the team that signed him was the Ravens, also team closest to bringing in Kaepernick. Mike Vick got another shot, but the guy also humbled himself after his suspension and could still operate in a more traditional offense (and had better QB skills in the pocket). Otherwise the backup jobs go to guys you never know much about, which is the way NFL teams prefer it as their role is to support and be overall smart players.

Think about this, at no time in NFL history has a bigger story been made about a player who hadn't earned a job after coming off a 1-10 record and being one of the worst performing starting QBs in the league. Is that because its really that big of a surprise, when you look at X's and O's and the stats and the role required of a backup QB, or is it more just a case of being a story that gets a lot of clicks due to how divisive the person involved is?

[Cactus Jack]

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[FNQ]

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Whoops, thought I posted it here, but I guess I did on the Hawks forum...

Seahawks FO, whoever this might have been, just gave Kap the biggest bit of ammo for his collusion case. Somewhere, Kap's lawyer is having the best day of his life.

[Cactus Jack]

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[FNQ]

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Man, clash of the football reporting titans here

[FNQ]

And so we're clear:

Adam Schefter - biggest NFL reporter at ESPN
Charles Robinson - biggest NFL reporter at YAHOO
Ian Rappoport - biggest NFL reporter at NFL.com

The non-NFL affiliated reporters are saying the kneeling killed it, the one who gets his checks from the league has softened it. Looks awfully shady.

[Cactus Jack]

And so we're clear:

Adam Schefter - biggest NFL reporter at ESPN
Charles Robinson - biggest NFL reporter at YAHOO
Ian Rappoport - biggest NFL reporter at NFL.com

The non-NFL affiliated reporters are saying the kneeling killed it, the one who gets his checks from the league has softened it. Looks awfully shady.

It's pretty apparent teams for the most part don't want to deal with the headache. Don't feel he's worth it. I don't really blame them.

[Bulltalk]

And so we're clear:

Adam Schefter - biggest NFL reporter at ESPN
Charles Robinson - biggest NFL reporter at YAHOO
Ian Rappoport - biggest NFL reporter at NFL.com

The non-NFL affiliated reporters are saying the kneeling killed it, the one who gets his checks from the league has softened it. Looks awfully shady.

It's pretty apparent teams for the most part don't want to deal with the headache. Don't feel he's worth it. I don't really blame them.

If the report about the kneeling is true, it is kind of ironic that it would be the Seahawks of all teams that such a story would come from.

[Cactus Jack]

And so we're clear:

Adam Schefter - biggest NFL reporter at ESPN
Charles Robinson - biggest NFL reporter at YAHOO
Ian Rappoport - biggest NFL reporter at NFL.com

The non-NFL affiliated reporters are saying the kneeling killed it, the one who gets his checks from the league has softened it. Looks awfully shady.

It's pretty apparent teams for the most part don't want to deal with the headache. Don't feel he's worth it. I don't really blame them.

If the report about the kneeling is true, it is kind of ironic that it would be the Seahawks of all teams that such a story would come from.

That's precisely why it's being reported. 31 other teams have the same view. The Hawks are the only one (that I know of) that has shown any interest this off season.

I'm honestly on the fence about him potentially being Russ' backup. I like that the team is moving on from the more outspoken personalities in the locker room. I'm not sad to see Michael Bennett leave. It was time to move on from Sherm as well.

At the same time, CK is by far the best option for us at the moment. From just an on the field perspective. It makes total sense.

Is he better than Austin Davis? Absolutely.

[righterwriter]

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Whoops, thought I posted it here, but I guess I did on the Hawks forum...

Seahawks FO, whoever this might have been, just gave Kap the biggest bit of ammo for his collusion case. Somewhere, Kap's lawyer is having the best day of his life.

Yeah, I'm not buying it. The Seahawks have been the only team willing to consider Kaepernick. It makes sense on paper, as the play style between him and Wilson is just close enough that it could work. And the Seattle franchise has had numerous players sit without the team showing any objection, and Pete Carroll voicing support for them.

So why would they contact him, set up a workout, then cancel it with a last minute demand for CK to not kneel? Does that not seem like a bit of a stupid strategy considering the fact that he is in the midst of a super public lawsuit related to him not being able to get a job because of his kneeling?

Secondly, the Seahawks are saying that the meeting was "tentatively" scheduled, meaning it was not really confirmed. CK's camp is saying that it was scheduled for the 9th, which was one day before his deposition in NYC, before being canceled. That's a hell of a date to set up a workout and meeting with the brass in Seattle considering that they must have known that it would be a lengthy meeting with serious talks. It's unlikely that it would just be a matter of CK throwing the ball around for a few minutes then having a bit of a quick chat before heading out. These types of signings usually involve a lot of examination, particularly in a case like CKs where beyond discussing how he'd fit in with the team, they'd want to figure out where his head is at and he'd want to know what they think of him, as well as how they'd handle the media scrutiny going forward.

The only flight going from SEA-NYC was at 3:25pm, meaning CK would have to be done with the workout and meetings before 12:00 to be able to get to the airport by 1:30pm to check in. That flight puts CK at JFK at midnight, which means he's checking into his hotel at 1am and probably in bed by 1:30am, which again is a bit of a press, both physically and mentally, the night before this super important deposition of a multi-million dollar lawsuit which was reportedly expected to take "several hours."

My take is that the Seahawks contacted CK's camp to discuss bringing him in for a workout and said that they had time on April 9th. CK's camp said that it could possibly work with their schedule. Seattle likely mentioned that one thing they'd like to discuss is everything related to the kneeling, including where CK was with it now, what his plans were in handling all the added media attention, etc, which I think is a pretty essential conversation to have. CK's camp then decided to use this as a PR stunt to say that Seattle had canceled the workout because of the kneeling. Again, this doesn't add up as it would seem strange for Seattle's FO to demand during a phone call that CK stop kneeling or else. Clearly they were considering him and knew what was involved with bringing him aboard, so why schedule the workout/meeting and then cancel it at the last moment to make this demand?

I think CK doesn't really want to play football anymore. If he did, he wouldn't be putting out the only team that has shown real interest in him.

[Cactus Jack]

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Whoops, thought I posted it here, but I guess I did on the Hawks forum...

Seahawks FO, whoever this might have been, just gave Kap the biggest bit of ammo for his collusion case. Somewhere, Kap's lawyer is having the best day of his life.

Yeah, I'm not buying it. The Seahawks have been the only team willing to consider Kaepernick. It makes sense on paper, as the play style between him and Wilson is just close enough that it could work. And the Seattle franchise has had numerous players sit without the team showing any objection, and Pete Carroll voicing support for them.

So why would they contact him, set up a workout, then cancel it with a last minute demand for CK to not kneel? Does that not seem like a bit of a stupid strategy considering the fact that he is in the midst of a super public lawsuit related to him not being able to get a job because of his kneeling?

Secondly, the Seahawks are saying that the meeting was "tentatively" scheduled, meaning it was not really confirmed. CK's camp is saying that it was scheduled for the 9th, which was one day before his deposition in NYC, before being canceled. That's a hell of a date to set up a workout and meeting with the brass in Seattle considering that they must have known that it would be a lengthy meeting with serious talks. It's unlikely that it would just be a matter of CK throwing the ball around for a few minutes then having a bit of a quick chat before heading out. These types of signings usually involve a lot of examination, particularly in a case like CKs where beyond discussing how he'd fit in with the team, they'd want to figure out where his head is at and he'd want to know what they think of him, as well as how they'd handle the media scrutiny going forward.

The only flight going from SEA-NYC was at 3:25pm, meaning CK would have to be done with the workout and meetings before 12:00 to be able to get to the airport by 1:30pm to check in. That flight puts CK at JFK at midnight, which means he's checking into his hotel at 1am and probably in bed by 1:30am, which again is a bit of a press, both physically and mentally, the night before this super important deposition of a multi-million dollar lawsuit which was reportedly expected to take "several hours."

My take is that the Seahawks contacted CK's camp to discuss bringing him in for a workout and said that they had time on April 9th. CK's camp said that it could possibly work with their schedule. Seattle likely mentioned that one thing they'd like to discuss is everything related to the kneeling, including where CK was with it now, what his plans were in handling all the added media attention, etc, which I think is a pretty essential conversation to have. CK's camp then decided to use this as a PR stunt to say that Seattle had canceled the workout because of the kneeling. Again, this doesn't add up as it would seem strange for Seattle's FO to demand during a phone call that CK stop kneeling or else. Clearly they were considering him and knew what was involved with bringing him aboard, so why schedule the workout/meeting and then cancel it at the last moment to make this demand?

I think CK doesn't really want to play football anymore. If he did, he wouldn't be putting out the only team that has shown real interest in him.

The team met with him last year & he still went unsigned then. Pete later came out & said that CK is a starter in this league & he deserved a shot to start. Those were his words. Like most fans, I took that as him saying that CK wasn't willing to be a backup & wanted more money. Something that wasn't going to happen.

I do believe that the anthem protest has played a part. Otherwise, some team would have signed him by now. Same goes for Eric Reid.

Nice breakdown btw.

[FNQ]

When FAs visit teams as organized visits, they charter flights. I would imagine that goes double when the FA in question is as polarizing as Kap.

If Kap was the one who reached out and Seattle is getting played for fools in the media.. why wouldn’t they say that instead of giving Kap ammo in his deposition? Either way, truth will come out soon. Paul Allen’s depo is coming up. But the reasoning above is much like a conspiracy theory, and until there’s any reason to believe otherwise, Occam’s razor: what 3 huge NFL reporters reported is closest to the truth. Now whether you believe the independently contracted reporters or the one who works for the league is probably going to expose leanings in the Kap saga, but I don’t believe the Seahawks and 3 reporters, one who works for the NFL too, would allow something that can be used against the NFL in court unless it were true.

[FNQ]

Also of note - Carroll wasn’t exactly supportive of the players causes towards the end of the season. Claimed it caused a distraction. And now 2 of the biggest mouthpieces on the Hawks are gone..

I really, really doubt that Kap and his team would outright lie and potentially muddy up their credibility amidst a collusion case that’s so viable that multiple owners (billionaires) are being called in for depositions.

[Pacers_Freak]

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Whoops, thought I posted it here, but I guess I did on the Hawks forum...

Seahawks FO, whoever this might have been, just gave Kap the biggest bit of ammo for his collusion case. Somewhere, Kap's lawyer is having the best day of his life.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one. However, this is not a sign of collusion to me. As an employee, my employer has certain expectations from me. I am expected to follow those expectations. If someone showed up to an interview at our business and said they were going to wear a make America great again t shirt on sales calls they would not be hired. That is not collusion that is an expectation from what our bosses accept. If he can prove that teams are not signing him because of his beliefs then he has a case. Because they won't sign him due to expectations they have in their business.... that is not collusion. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that is what my opinion is.

IMO people get confused on what their rights are. You have rights, but there are also consequences to those rights in business. The NFL is a business and can ask anything of their employees that is legal through the collective bargaining agreement.

[righterwriter]

When FAs visit teams as organized visits, they charter flights. I would imagine that goes double when the FA in question is as polarizing as Kap.

If Kap was the one who reached out and Seattle is getting played for fools in the media.. why wouldn’t they say that instead of giving Kap ammo in his deposition? Either way, truth will come out soon. Paul Allen’s depo is coming up. But the reasoning above is much like a conspiracy theory, and until there’s any reason to believe otherwise, Occam’s razor: what 3 huge NFL reporters reported is closest to the truth. Now whether you believe the independently contracted reporters or the one who works for the league is probably going to expose leanings in the Kap saga, but I don’t believe the Seahawks and 3 reporters, one who works for the NFL too, would allow something that can be used against the NFL in court unless it were true.

I wouldn't put much stock into who is doing the reporting. Any reporter who is given a leak by CK's camp is obviously going to run with it because it's probably the most read topic of any story in the NFL. All they have to do is quote the story they are fed, it doesn't matter if its true or not.

The Seahawks, and any team, need to be extremely careful in the way they discuss CK with the press due to the lawsuit. They're not going to go into a ton of detail and start a back and forth in the media which brings them more scrutiny.

Regarding their getting rid of guys who were kneeling, they traded Michael Bennett (who is mentally unstable and was charged with a felony recently) and Jeremy Lane (who was charged with a DUI and drug possession, wasn't very good in 2017 and has an injury history) https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/3/14/17119888/seattle-seahawks-cb-jeremy-lane-formally-charged-dui-arraignment-release-free-agency-derek-coleman

There's still six other guys who knelt last year who are on the team.

You've gotta agree that Kaep's camp going to the media like this sabotaged any chance of his being with the Seahawks. This was the one NFL team that showed any interest in him this offseason, and instead of having a discussion with them he fed a story to the media. Again, it seems a lot more likely to me that a team that knows everything about Kaep's background and decides to have him in for a workout would be more interested in having a discussion with him about how to handle the situation if he were to sign (their story), than dictating to him on the phone that he has to stop kneeling or else (his story). Wouldn't you agree?

[FNQ]

Read on Twitter

Whoops, thought I posted it here, but I guess I did on the Hawks forum...

Seahawks FO, whoever this might have been, just gave Kap the biggest bit of ammo for his collusion case. Somewhere, Kap's lawyer is having the best day of his life.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one. However, this is not a sign of collusion to me. As an employee, my employer has certain expectations from me. I am expected to follow those expectations. If someone showed up to an interview at our business and said they were going to wear a make America great again t shirt on sales calls they would not be hired. That is not collusion that is an expectation from what our bosses accept. If he can prove that teams are not signing him because of his beliefs then he has a case. Because they won't sign him due to expectations they have in their business.... that is not collusion. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that is what my opinion is.

IMO people get confused on what their rights are. You have rights, but there are also consequences to those rights in business. The NFL is a business and can ask anything of their employees that is legal through the collective bargaining agreement.

It’s not in itself a sign of collusion. I stated it gives him ammo in his case, which it absolutely does. For this case to even go to arbitration, Kaeps camp would need some form of evidence, and that evidence must have been less than 90 days old from the date he filed the grieveance. Otherwise, it’s thrown out immediately.

What the Seahawks did was be the first to publicly be outed as a team that brought up his protests and stopped a visit because of them. 3 different reporters - 4 if you count Florio, which I don’t - stated 2 different stories, but both involved Kaps visit being cancelled due
to his protest.

Now logically, knowing that there’s enough evidence to keep the arbitration hearing going, it is extremely likely that this new bit of news is in direct support of said evidence. This, it gives Kap’s camp more ammo in the case.

Nothing you said is wrong, in a vacuum. But with the details of the case as they are, it likely (imo) doesn’t apply here.

[FNQ]

I wouldn't put much stock into who is doing the reporting. Any reporter who is given a leak by CK's camp is obviously going to run with it because it's probably the most read topic of any story in the NFL. All they have to do is quote the story they are fed, it doesn't matter if its true or not.

When 3 prominent, extremely accurate reporters all report the same thing, I think it has legs. Especially when one works for the NFL and confirming it could expose them legally in a case that could cost them millions (in both lump sum and with regard to rule changes that may be forced). NFL wouldn’t let RapSheet post a story this damaging without there being a legitimate confirmation

The Seahawks, and any team, need to be extremely careful in the way they discuss CK with the press due to the lawsuit. They're not going to go into a ton of detail and start a back and forth in the media which brings them more scrutiny.

True, but if prominent reporters are asking for confirmation of events and may or may not have a legit reason to believe them, they might. How else does RapSheet get a more detailed, different version? Kaps team wouldn’t leak out 2 different versions

Regarding their getting rid of guys who were kneeling, they traded Michael Bennett (who is mentally unstable and was charged with a felony recently) and Jeremy Lane (who was charged with a DUI and drug possession, wasn't very good in 2017 and has an injury history) https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/3/14/17119888/seattle-seahawks-cb-jeremy-lane-formally-charged-dui-arraignment-release-free-agency-derek-coleman

There's still six other guys who knelt last year who are on the team.

Mostly was referring to Bennett and Sherman. It’s not only the kneeling, it’s the distraction they created beyond the kneeling. Carroll mentioned how he felt that affected them, and now two of their better players are gone. Just so happens they were very vocal about the issues as well

You've gotta agree that Kaep's camp going to the media like this sabotaged any chance of his being with the Seahawks. This was the one NFL team that showed any interest in him this offseason, and instead of having a discussion with them he fed a story to the media. Again, it seems a lot more likely to me that a team that knows everything about Kaep's background and decides to have him in for a workout would be more interested in having a discussion with him about how to handle the situation if he were to sign (their story), than dictating to him on the phone that he has to stop kneeling or else (his story). Wouldn't you agree?

Oh definitely. I’m sure Kaps people were aware of that too. As to the 2nd question, I think you slanted it towards the Seahawks there. It was asked - allegedly - what he was going to, civil discourse wise. Not a plan of what to do if signed. I think those are vastly different things, one of which likely supports Kaps case.

As noted above, the Hawks probably felt they could do that because they likely have no evidence of another team/owner trying to convince them not to sign Kap. No matter which story is true, so long as there’s no tangible evidence of another team influencing them, they personally are in the clear. And based on their story confirming the cancellation in lieu of outright denial of a visit in the first place, it looks very much like they set the meeting up, wanted to know if Kap was gonna be low key, he said he didn’t know, they cancel.

[Cactus Jack]

Regarding their getting rid of guys who were kneeling, they traded Michael Bennett (who is mentally unstable and was charged with a felony recently) and Jeremy Lane (who was charged with a DUI and drug possession, wasn't very good in 2017 and has an injury history) https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/3/14/17119888/seattle-seahawks-cb-jeremy-lane-formally-charged-dui-arraignment-release-free-agency-derek-coleman

There's still six other guys who knelt last year who are on the team.

Mostly was referring to Bennett and Sherman. It’s not only the kneeling, it’s the distraction they created beyond the kneeling. Carroll mentioned how he felt that affected them, and now two of their better players are gone. Just so happens they were very vocal about the issues as well

Sherm was let go because of his injury/cap hit. If he didn't blow out his Achilles, he'd still be on the team today.

Bennett was a "pain in the ***" for the coaches last year. Add in his age (33) and he was let go primarily for those reasons. Did his anthem protest play a role? I tend to think not.

Jeremy Lane was projected to have a cap hit of 7 million & was a backup. There's no way he was expected to be back. That's even with his legal troubles.

[Bulltalk]

I think there is some truth to what Sherman said about Pete's coaching style, that some of the older vets had begun to tune-out his rah-rah-positive-Pete style. I think Pete wants to get back to hungry players who will buy in and compete like hell for their jobs.

That said, there certainly were money/age issues in play as well with Sherman and Bennett and Lane.