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HMFFL wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Even still, so many people can't get away from Joe Montana and Elway.

They should very soon, at the rate that Peyton Manning is playing.

I don't even think 3 more would convince the majority that he's the best ever. J.Kim said maybe if Tom adds a MVP.

The problem is that football is seen as the ultimate team game and, sadly, quite a few people mistake team success for personal success. (See Bradshaw, Terry). A QB winning six Super Bowls during his career is a pretty impressive feat and, given that he's statistically been near the top of the league in passing since he's started, that would be sufficient cause to add him to the discussion. Whether or not it's justified is another story...

People often lump Dan Marino into the conversation even though he was a notorious playoff loser and was a barely above-average QB most of his career. He just threw the ball more than anyone else, often to the other team. I hear Bradshaw get mentioned in the conversation and like BBJ said, he was much more the beneficiary of greatness around him than the epitome of greatness himself.

Brady is so clearly superior to both those guys that he certainly merits being in the conversation already. An outright MVP award would help, probably one more Super Bowl ring too. More than one of either of those and I think the debate is over in his favor. IMO he gets extra credit for playing in a more balanced league full of roster and coaching turnover.

Icness wrote:People often lump Dan Marino into the conversation even though he was a notorious playoff loser and was a barely above-average QB most of his career. He just threw the ball more than anyone else, often to the other team. I hear Bradshaw get mentioned in the conversation and like BBJ said, he was much more the beneficiary of greatness around him than the epitome of greatness himself.

Brady is so clearly superior to both those guys that he certainly merits being in the conversation already. An outright MVP award would help, probably one more Super Bowl ring too. More than one of either of those and I think the debate is over in his favor. IMO he gets extra credit for playing in a more balanced league full of roster and coaching turnover.

With Brady, I feel that there's always going to be detractors who consider him to be a "result of the system" (completely unwarranted). To have outright consideration as the greatest QB to ever play the game, I think he would need, at the very least, 2 more rings, and an MVP to boot.

playing with more than one quality receiver for the first time in his career, Brady has gone 47-for-59 (81 percent) for 576 yards, six TDs and one interception so far? Isn't there a potentially fun "What would have happened if Brady had Manning's supporting cast and Manning had Brady's supporting cast for the last six years?" argument developing here? Do you care?

Thats from Simmons article, he makes a pretty damn good point. Though it is only 2 games so far, but if he keeps it up (well obviously the numbers wont be quite that high but should be alot higher than they previously were, its quite an interesting arguement.

Troy Brown - He was solid but never a top level reciever. Only went over 1k yards once and that was Brady's first year playing (his second year in the nfl but he didnt play as a rookie except for 3 passes).

David Patten - Yeah moving on

David Givens - See above

Bethel Johnson - Again, see above

Deion Branch - Probably the best reciever hes had talentwise (before this year obviously), but Branch hasnt produced much other than in that one SB.

Reche Caldwell - Brady made him look alot better than he is.

vs.


Marvin Harrison - Probably one of the best recievers to play the game.

Reggie Wayne - On most teams hed easily be the #1 receiver. Had almost 5500 yards, 37 tds and 3 fumbles in his first 6 years.


Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk arent exactly Edgerrin James and Dominic Rhodes either. And Corey Dillon is good but hes no Marshall Faulk.

J.Kim wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



With Brady, I feel that there's always going to be detractors who consider him to be a "result of the system" (completely unwarranted).

Should this season continue the way it's been going, I think it'll finally shut up the naysayers. Back in the 2001 season, the Pats offense played to his strengths, with a lot of short-mid range passes, and screen plays backed up by a stable running game. Now that he has a legitimate deep threat, he's thriving in pass heavy drives and putting up Manning-like statistics (the lousy pass defenses the Patriots face in the next couple weeks should help this trend continue). I don't think you can argue that he's a system product if he's done great in two completely different systems.

That said, Manning's been putting up ridiculous numbers for so long now that it won't take much more in terms of playoff performance to put him on top. I expect both to be in the "greatest ever" conversation when they retire, but Brady might have to live with being the second greatest QB of his generation.

Lions third-string QB Dan Orlovsky, speaking about Jon Kitna, told the Detroit Free Press: 'Indy can have Peyton and New England can have Tom, but we wouldn't trade this guy for anyone in the world.'

Deal!

sounds like dan orlovsky has a 3rd string IQ to go along with his 3rd string qb status.

Sounds like Dan Orlovsky's the one who got the concussion, not Jon Kitna...

Anyone else think Elway shouldn't even be brought up in this conversation?

From what I have seen, no one runs an offense like Peyton Manning, and no one can read/react and make the throws like Peyton does.

He is the best QB to play the game... "Greatest" I guess you can argue for others, but I'm not gonna hold less team success against someone, unless it was a clear choke job.

Anyone notice how when you win a superbowl, you get a free pass for the rest of your life?

Anyone know how badly Peyton would have been crucified had he been in Tom Brady's shoes when the Pats blew that huge lead in the AFC championship?

*Insert BBJ's obligatory "Yeah, but did you [i]see[i] what team Elway made the playoffs with?" defense*

Elway was great. Not best-ever great, but definitely near the top and borderline top-5.