RealGM

Me and a friend of mine had a conversation about the amount of money certain positions gets paid when they get franchised.
We both agreed that RB's seem to get paid quite low compared to the rest and we had an argument of which was more important CB or LB's.
Now in your opinion if you were a GM which positions would you concentrate a great deal of money in your salary cap.
(Just to make sure, there is no exact players in mind)...

Mine would probably be,
QB
DE
T
CB
DT
WR
G
S
RB
C
TE
LB
K
P

Btw, this is a 4-3 D

QB
T
DE
DT
WR
LB
G
CB
S
C
RB
TE
K
P

Is that for a 3-4 or a 4-3?!?!
I always considered DE's not that important in 3-4's thats why!

It would be a 3-4. And I disagree that DE are not as important in that system. Just look at New England with Seymour and Warren.

T
DT
RB
QB
DE
LB
WR
S
G
C
CB
TE
K
P

QB
DE
T
LB
WR
CB
DT
C
G
S
RB
TE
K
P

I think Punters should make more than kickers...

A good coverage unit can make an average punter look good. It's hard to compensate for a kicker that can't make FGs beyond 40 yards with regularity.

Basketball Jesus wrote:A good coverage unit can make an average punter look good. It's hard to compensate for a kicker that can't make FGs beyond 40 yards with regularity.

Yes. And I almost completely agree with your ranking list. I'd flop WR and CB but other than that we are in agreeance.

Yeah, I think CB/WR are pretty interchangeable when it comes to cost. If I were to stratify them it’s probably look something like this:

QB


DE

T
LB


WR
CB
DT

C
G

S


RB



TE
K
P



I don’t buy Peter King’s obsession with the fungibility of RBs but I do believe that they’re the easiest to find freely-available talent close to league average.

I assume BBJ your dealing with a 3-4..Because I think in a 4-3..you can live with adequate LB as long as you have a good line..
Maybe I am just to much of an Eagles Homer and thats why i can't really see the true value of a good LB...

Ong_dynasty wrote:I assume BBJ your dealing with a 3-4..Because I think in a 4-3..you can live with adequate LB as long as you have a good line..

Actually, I think it's the other way around...well, not exactly. I think in order to have a great 4-3 defense, you need a linebacker that's a lot more versatile and disciplined than a 3-4 linebacker. It's tougher to find a 4-3 LB that has the kind of gap discipline and coverage skills to make it all work. You could have the best down linemen in the world but it won't mean a thing if the LB can't take away the intermediates.

BBJ- I agree with what you say...Looking at the Eagles..having competent LB's with good Gap Control has helped our Run D immensely..
I guess I would rather have ALL-PRO Corners with Good LB's then Vice Versa..I like the playmaking ability of Great Corners..

Since most of you guys really dont rate CB highly..do you guys think they are overpaid?!?!

I think DBs are vastly overpaid. For one thing, raw DB statistics, like tackles and INTs, are primarily a function of defensive scheme/system and pass rush and partly a function of talent. Take a DB like Asante Samuel: as far as DBs go, he's one of the best. But he's not particularly great on his own: he's a prolific gambler that uses his instinct and closing speed to lull QBs into throwing towards his assignment. Samuel gets away with playing fast and loose because in NE and in Philly, he had a good pass rush that forced QBs into making split-second decisions. More often than not, they're going to throw to who they see as open and, with Samuel usually playing a few yards off the receiver, it's going to go to his assignment. Samuel can then use his closing speed to jump the route and pick the ball. In that instance the rush is just as important in causing that INT as Samuel was...probably more.

For contrast, take Samuel's last season in New England: the Pats' pass rush sucked at putting consistent pressure on opposing QBs which gave them time to set up and expose Samuel's soft coverage. He still recorded six INTs but he also had his assignments run all over him that season. That had just as much to do with Samuel's style of play as it did with the Patriots lack of a pass rush.

Most DBs today aren't true man-up shutdown corners; most modern defensive schemes have bred the gambling ballhawk DB. In that regard, I think it's not that hard to find good DBs, provided they have experience playing whatever scheme you're running (e.g. a Tampa-2 DB is going to have a hard time in a Shanahan defense). Of course DBs like Asomugha are much, much better and should be paid accordingly but I think that, generally speaking, DBs are vastly overpaid for the wrong reasons.

But would you rather have a shutdown corner or a playmaking corner?! As much as I agree 100% with what you are saying with Asante, I think having playmaking corner in todays game is better than a shutdown corner..

In the last 5 or so years..I can only remember one cb who did both tremendously..and that was Champ a few years ago..

As much as Nnamdi was phenomenal last year he only created 1 int (fair enough that was due to the lack of QB's throwing to him) and I understand having such a CB just enhances your playbook greatly...

But at the same time they can be nullified by the offense just not throwing to them and their worth greatly diminishes when they are playing teams with no try playmaking WR.

My theory also is that true shutdown corners make there CB partner look worse than they really are...(Like Deangelo Hall (even though im not the greatest fan) and who ever paired up with Champ) because they get picked on more. Now I have no stats for it but its just what I notice.

While a CB like Asante will give up big plays but at the same time causes turnovers and should be able to get you 2 or 3 pick 6's a year.

I always have this argument on which type of DB is more valuable..and I do love me some shutdown corner but I think in today's game the playmaking corner is becoming more valuable..

Having a shutdown corner completely nullifies throws to one side of the field, and allows you to gameplan on defense to focus on the other side of the field. Plus, with a shutdown corner like Nnamdi, you can move your safety(ies) over to the other side, give that prevent help over the top, and have your other corner play in front of the receiver.
Gameplanning wise, it just makes it that much easier.
I could care less about interceptions and whether they're returned for a TD. If the gameplanning is done properly utilizing the right talents, you won't need to worry about any luck factor, involved in Interceptions and Fumble Recoveries, in getting the ball back. Reliability and Consistency > Risk and Inconsistency.

As for the list of position value, seeing as how most people have DE over DT, I guess you guys like funnelling everything inside for the Mike to make a play... Might just be me, but I like funnelling stuff to the outside, where the OLBs are generally speedier so that they can make the play. Plus, going towards the sideline means less forward motion and less yards given up if the tackle is made. Of course, there's the risk of giving up big plays by letting players get to the outside, but as long as you have sure tacklers at the corner and OLB positions, that shouldn't be a problem, IMO.

My list looks like this (stratified as well):

QB

DT
T

OLB
DE

MLB

CB
G
C
TE

S
WR

RB

FB

K
P

I have a personal preference for TEs who can block, pull and lead for an RB, and can catch the ball on short-to-mid passes over most WRs, who are usually liabilities when it comes to blocking... Of course there are exceptions, and in those cases, I'd usually put them over TEs.

As for the list of position value, seeing as how most people have DE over DT, I guess you guys like funnelling everything inside for the Mike to make a play

I don't think the original question was one of value, rather one of how much cap space you would dedicate to a certain position. In that regard, top-tier DEs inevtiably cost more than equivalent DTs.

Give me a shutdown corner any day over someone who has a higher risk of getting burned. Any decent QB throws more TDs than INTs, after all - think it's more likely that the gambler beats beaten for a big play or gets the pick?

I wouldn't be so anxious to pony up cash for WRs and probably a bit more for RBs, but maybe that's just me. Otherwise, I think the BBJ/Icness list is pretty good.

Has there even been a shut-down CB in the NFL since Sanders?

I still say for about a 3 year span Champ Bailey was a true Shut Down CB and Nnamdi the last 2 years I guess...Either than that....