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Offseason Workout Footage

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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#21 » by FloridaMan78 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:17 pm

edmunder_prc wrote:Stewart hasnt shown the ability to dribble, drive or pass the ball. His ability to even handle quick passes made to him is below average and his first year was downright awful - he must have bobbled half the passes given to him under the basket.

Being a PF that cant dribble, drive or pass is a really odd mix. He had some very good offensive rebounding skills year 1 and less last year it seemed.

He can guard a lot of guys 2-5 spots which is interesting and valuable. But its probably more valuable as a 5, because you hope your team has someone like Tatum, Durant, Giannis, Lebron, Paul George, etc, at the 4. A tall, do it all talented star.


Agreed, that's why it was nice to see the video of him dribbling and quick pass the ball was nice to see. It looks like he was working on it at Rico against good competition not summer league g leaguers.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#22 » by NYPiston » Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:21 pm

FloridaMan78 wrote:
While he is very young and I expect him to eventually improve, I don’t think Ivey will ever become a shut down defender. I hope he can be an average defender one day.


Guys like Luka and Morant who everybody slobbers over are horrible defenders. Throw Trae Young in there as well. Curry was a weak defender for a lot of his prime, he's improved somewhat in his later years.

Point being that you don't need to be a great or even good defender to be a high end NBA player as long as the offense is good enough to outweigh the bad defense which is the case with the aforementioned guys and Ivey potentially. Teams have ways of sheltering these guys nowadays so that they aren't liabilities.

Ivey will always be known for being a high octane offensive creator. If you get average to above average defense from him, that would be a bonus.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#23 » by FloridaMan78 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:27 pm

whitehops wrote:it's fun to see the guys out there but i don't think there's much to take away from these kinds of runs. there's little structure, guys aren't going 100% (with some trying harder than others), etc.

that said two things stood out to me:

- cade's defense. we know he's a good defender and while he didn't shut curry down he showed that he can stay in front of him even when curry is trying to put moves on him. curry is arguably the best ball handler in the league but cade managed to not get blown by or give much separation. with the lack of structure it didn't look like there was many off-ball screens being set so that's a whole other animal in defending curry we didn't get to see.
- stewart's shooting. we only saw like 5-6 3s and it's a highlight video so we don't know what % he shot but it was more the "eye test". the big thing to me is that he was shooting with no hesitation, which is a good sign both confidence-wise and to get shots off in games. it means he is more comfortable with his footwork/mechanics to speed up the shot process, which will let him get off more shots in c&s situations. it leaves me more optimistic that he can be a viable spacing threat this upcoming season.


Rico runs are a little different. We had nearly our entire team there and so was the Raptors. A little more competitive and organized rather than straight pick up games.

Cades team lost every game 0-4. Ivey's team was 2-2. Raptors A squad won 4-0. Curry and Trae were 2-2. It was pretty much pre-season Raptors vs Pistons. If Casey was there we would have bounced the Raptors lol.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#24 » by FloridaMan78 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:30 pm

NYPiston wrote:
FloridaMan78 wrote:
While he is very young and I expect him to eventually improve, I don’t think Ivey will ever become a shut down defender. I hope he can be an average defender one day.


Guys like Luka and Morant who everybody slobbers over are horrible defenders. Throw Trae Young in there as well. Curry was a weak defender for a lot of his prime, he's improved somewhat in his later years.

Point being that you don't need to be a great or even good defender to be a high end NBA player as long as the offense is good enough to outweigh the bad defense which is the case with the aforementioned guys and Ivey potentially. Teams have ways of sheltering these guys nowadays so that they aren't liabilities.

Ivey will always be known for being a high octane offensive creator. If you get average to above average defense from him, that would be a bonus.


Exactly, totally agreed. I'm pretty high on him and that's how I see him panning out. Great offensively like Drose or Westbrook and ok defensively.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#25 » by whitehops » Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:40 pm

FloridaMan78 wrote:Rico runs are a little different. We had nearly our entire team there and so was the Raptors. A little more competitive and organized rather than straight pick up games.

Cades team lost every game 0-4. Ivey's team was 2-2. Raptors A squad won 4-0. Curry and Trae were 2-2. It was pretty much pre-season Raptors vs Pistons. If Casey was there we would have bounced the Raptors lol.


three of our guys literally played in hoodies so just because they were there doesn't mean it was any more competitive. by the highlights it looked like kevin knox was our best player. most of our guys were playing at half speed.

even looking at other players - curry bombs 3s all game in the nba but he barely took any during the rico runs.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#26 » by FloridaMan78 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:46 pm

whitehops wrote:
FloridaMan78 wrote:Rico runs are a little different. We had nearly our entire team there and so was the Raptors. A little more competitive and organized rather than straight pick up games.

Cades team lost every game 0-4. Ivey's team was 2-2. Raptors A squad won 4-0. Curry and Trae were 2-2. It was pretty much pre-season Raptors vs Pistons. If Casey was there we would have bounced the Raptors lol.


three of our guys literally played in hoodies so just because they were there doesn't mean it was any more competitive. by the highlights it looked like kevin knox was our best player. most of our guys were playing at half speed.

even looking at other players - curry bombs 3s all game in the nba but he barely took any during the rico runs.


Yea definitely taking it easy but more organized as it was full teams playing together. Most of the other runs are guys from different teams and some not even in the league. These were all NBA players.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#27 » by zeebneeb » Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:54 pm

You know what I can say with 100% confidence?

No one saw Stewart becoming a legitimate three-point threat, while Hayes struggled to even have the confidence to shoot the damn ball.

It's so bizarre, my brain has trouble processing it.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#28 » by Cowology » Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:39 pm

BeefStew does not need to be athletic. That's what Duren & Bagley are for. He doesn't need great handles or to be a playmaker. That's what Cade & Ivey are for.

All BeefStew has to do is keep working on the things he's already good at. It's OK to have a specific role and/or be a specialist.

You have a high-energy defender with the ability to switch. Basically mandatory in todays league. He can also shoot 3's, which drags his man away from the basket and opens up driving lanes for our All-Star backcourt. These guys are going to LOVE having Duren/Bagley as lob-threats with Stew/Livers/KO as spacers. It's friggin awesome.

I'm waaaay more interested in whether Hayes & Bey have made some mandatory progress. We're going to make some big decisions on both these guys pretty soon. Bey in particular has a HUGE impact on our w/l record. I love his size & strength; he has the potential to be a real tough cover in this league. We'll see I guess. *shrug*
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#29 » by bstein14 » Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:27 am

Was hoping to see some Killian highlights from Eurobasket this week but it looks like he isn't on the team.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#30 » by FloridaMan78 » Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:59 am

How about off season interviews?
Figured I'd post since it's Beef Stew.

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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#31 » by zeebneeb » Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:43 am

FloridaMan78 wrote:How about off season interviews?
Figured I'd post since it's Beef Stew.

Great find, and a damn good interview.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#32 » by tmorgan » Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:30 am

Had already listened to this. Stewart seems like a good guy. And really likes McGruder.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#33 » by bstein14 » Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:15 pm

Yup, that interview makes me think that McGruder is a guy that is worth having at the vet min. He really shot the ball well for us last year also, but it just seems locker room wise its important to keep a vet like him around with so many young guys on the team. Also interesting that Buddy B and Stew played AAU ball together so they go way to back to their HS days.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#34 » by FloridaMan78 » Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:26 pm

bstein14 wrote:Yup, that interview makes me think that McGruder is a guy that is worth having at the vet min. He really shot the ball well for us last year also, but it just seems locker room wise its important to keep a vet like him around with so many young guys on the team. Also interesting that Buddy B and Stew played AAU ball together so they go way to back to their HS days.

Yea for sure, Mcgruder sounds like a good vet to have around. Kinda like someone at work you like working with, worth the minimum for a locker room guy. Stuff as fans we don’t really think about.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#35 » by CubicalLake7 » Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:24 pm

Geeked about this footage. Two things, Knox looked like a All Star , but in all seriousness, with the Nuggets being my 2nd favorite team (where I live and attrnd games), it is good to see MPJ raining 3's. Ball Arena is rocking when they make that MP3!!!!! call, and that was missed a lot last year.

Can't wait for the Nov matchup against my Pistons. Had a blast at that game last year. Have good tickets on the floor this year too.

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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#36 » by CubicalLake7 » Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:27 pm

The Pistons Pulse Pod had a great interview with Blaha yesterday too.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7qeZ0z8ZHCKSC92CCctRkQ?si=exkP2udxSE-4hVAtGmL-Rw&utm_source=copy-link
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#37 » by oldncreaky » Thu Sep 1, 2022 9:22 am

FloridaMan78 wrote:
whitehops wrote:it's fun to see the guys out there but i don't think there's much to take away from these kinds of runs. there's little structure, guys aren't going 100% (with some trying harder than others), etc.

that said two things stood out to me:

- cade's defense. we know he's a good defender and while he didn't shut curry down he showed that he can stay in front of him even when curry is trying to put moves on him. curry is arguably the best ball handler in the league but cade managed to not get blown by or give much separation. with the lack of structure it didn't look like there was many off-ball screens being set so that's a whole other animal in defending curry we didn't get to see.
- stewart's shooting. we only saw like 5-6 3s and it's a highlight video so we don't know what % he shot but it was more the "eye test". the big thing to me is that he was shooting with no hesitation, which is a good sign both confidence-wise and to get shots off in games. it means he is more comfortable with his footwork/mechanics to speed up the shot process, which will let him get off more shots in c&s situations. it leaves me more optimistic that he can be a viable spacing threat this upcoming season.


Rico runs are a little different. We had nearly our entire team there and so was the Raptors. A little more competitive and organized rather than straight pick up games.

Cades team lost every game 0-4. Ivey's team was 2-2. Raptors A squad won 4-0. Curry and Trae were 2-2. It was pretty much pre-season Raptors vs Pistons. If Casey was there we would have bounced the Raptors lol.


The Rico runs lasted 3 weeks but just ended. It's been an annual thing for a decade+ but this is the first time in 3 years (suspended due to COVID). It's not just the runs alone -- players will work on individual skills with coaches (Hines/Watson/others) before and after the runs, and then try to apply those skills in the runs. Over the years, a number of players have sworn by them as critical to their growth, including Paul George and Pascal Siakam. There are dozens of videos on Youtube if you search for "Rico Hines basketball" showing clips from the last 3 weeks.

The Raptors were heavily represented. Hines and Earl Watson have been organizing this for decades and are both Raptor assistants this year. 18 of 20 guys that will be in the Raptors training camp attended, and the other 2 are recovering from injury. About 10-12 of them were there for all 3 weeks, with the others in-and-out. They look really good, particularly Pascal and Scottie.

Second most represented team was probably the Clippers, especially the younger bench guys. PG13 came in the 2nd week and stayed for the 3rd; John Wall came in the 3rd week. Wall looks great, and at times was the best player on the court.

Pistons came in a group of about a dozen in the second week, and most stayed for the third week. Cade and Ivey played together some, and apart some. I like the fit of them playing together. Bagley looked like Bagley, and I don't think he'll ever live up to his contract. Best news from a Pistons perspective is the Beef Stew's shooting looked very smooth and he was swishing a bunch of 3s.

Other pros who showed for some of it include Steph, Trae, MPJ, Draymond. Even though it's pickup, they do get competitive, especially when it's next basket wins.

Strangest sight was seeing Nick Nurse and Casey standing side-by-side watching their squads play each other when both head coaches dropped by during the 2nd week.

. . . and I can't wait for the season to start
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#38 » by vic » Thu Sep 1, 2022 4:15 pm

zeebneeb wrote:You know what I can say with 100% confidence?

No one saw Stewart becoming a legitimate three-point threat, while Hayes struggled to even have the confidence to shoot the damn ball.

It's so bizarre, my brain has trouble processing it.


I was suspect on Killian but I went along with the flow because of the ringer hype and the sidestep 3 highlights. I still believe in Killian because of his passing and I was VERY surprised by the quality of his defense. He's a perfect 3rd guard for a winning team. Everybody doesn't have to be a superstar to create a winning team.


I liked Beef Stew's personality but I didn't know he was a shooter until after the all-star break his rookie year when he started shooting it and making it. Then in his 2nd year he stopped shooting it a lot. I was perplexed.

I saw him in person this past year around Christmas and I basically asked him why he wasn't shooting it anymore. He had a little smirk on his face and said "It's coming." That's when I started to think that it was a tanking/development strategy to stop him from shooting the 3 and opening up the floor until we got more talent around him.

Lo and behold, after the All-star break last year he start shooting it again, and making it. This year he's moving to PF and has the green light to shoot it, hopefully from the BEGINNING of the season.

I got to take my hat off to Troy & Casey for taking the long view and building their 3&D PF of the future.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#39 » by zeebneeb » Thu Sep 1, 2022 5:34 pm

vic wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:You know what I can say with 100% confidence?

No one saw Stewart becoming a legitimate three-point threat, while Hayes struggled to even have the confidence to shoot the damn ball.

It's so bizarre, my brain has trouble processing it.


I was suspect on Killian but I went along with the flow because of the ringer hype and the sidestep 3 highlights. I still believe in Killian because of his passing and I was VERY surprised by the quality of his defense. He's a perfect 3rd guard for a winning team. Everybody doesn't have to be a superstar to create a winning team.


I liked Beef Stew's personality but I didn't know he was a shooter until after the all-star break his rookie year when he started shooting it and making it. Then in his 2nd year he stopped shooting it a lot. I was perplexed.

I saw him in person this past year around Christmas and I basically asked him why he wasn't shooting it anymore. He had a little smirk on his face and said "It's coming." That's when I started to think that it was a tanking/development strategy to stop him from shooting the 3 and opening up the floor until we got more talent around him.

Lo and behold, after the All-star break last year he start shooting it again, and making it. This year he's moving to PF and has the green light to shoot it, hopefully from the BEGINNING of the season.

I got to take my hat off to Troy & Casey for taking the long view and building their 3&D PF of the future.
I'm hoping his shot is as pure as end of season, summer league, and Rico made it look, because the ultimate pairing is going to be Stewart and Duren.

Both bangers down low, but one is a top tier lob threat, and the other is (fingers crossed)a sweet shooting 4.

The defense in the post will be top teir, rebounding top tier, and switchability top teir.

I mean, if that's how it pans out, good grief. It all hinges on Stewart not being shy, and taking that damn shot when it presents itself.
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Re: Offseason Workout Footage 

Post#40 » by tmorgan » Thu Sep 1, 2022 6:39 pm

I’d say it depends a lot more on Duren than Stewart.

Stewart is going to be somewhere between solid and very good as a stretch four. He has the shot, the feet, and the desire. Sure, he’ll be a weakish ball-handler at the position, and his hands are suspect, but I’m 100% sure he’ll be starter quality overall.

Duren is 18 and looks lost. He has all the physical tools, decent shot, vision and handle, and seems to love the game. But there’s so much development ahead of him. If he contributes this year before the break, I’ll be shocked. If he contributes at all this year, I’ll be pleasantly surprised. Such much to learn as a young kid that didn’t play much high level college ball even in his one year.

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