The whole roster has three guys that can be called plus defenders as of today.
You can’t make a strong castle out of wheelbarrows of manure.
Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
Moderators: dVs33, Cowology, theBigLip, Snakebites
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 14,257
- And1: 9,742
- Joined: Feb 04, 2005
- Location: San Francisco, CA
-
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
- Manocad
- RealGM
- Posts: 69,969
- And1: 10,562
- Joined: Dec 13, 2005
- Location: Middle Fingerton
- Contact:
-
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
JohnReese wrote:Killian got in big trouble today. Casey realized that Ivey plays better without him and Burks is a better PG. Don't be surprised if he does not play at all when everybody is healthy. For me the biggest problem of Killian at this point is that he struggles to create anything for the other players, his ball handling is not good and he is not good playing pick and roll.
I won't be surprised if Killian is playing 20 minutes/game for the rest of the season. If one thing is clear at this point it's that Casey/Weaver definitely don't have the same opinion of Hayes as some posters here do. Or at least the same plan for him.
We can all project our opinions into Casey or Weaver's heads and claim we know what they have planned for any given player, but the truth is none of us know jack s**t about what's inside their heads, other than what they state explicitly of course.

Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
- vege
- RealGM
- Posts: 20,823
- And1: 4,799
- Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
tmorgan wrote:The whole roster has three guys that can be called plus defenders as of today.
You can’t make a strong castle out of wheelbarrows of manure.
Killian/Burks/Hami/Livers/Noel/Stew are all plus defenders.
And there are levels of how bad a guy is. Bojan and Bey are very bad but they compete and try hard on defense, Bagley is even worse, Ivey is terrible and inconsistent, Cade is inconsistent, Duren is still lost, CoJo is too small
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,587
- And1: 4,464
- Joined: Aug 29, 2014
-
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
I'd put both cade and ivey in the very bad with bey and Bojan tbh.vege wrote:tmorgan wrote:The whole roster has three guys that can be called plus defenders as of today.
You can’t make a strong castle out of wheelbarrows of manure.
Killian/Burks/Hami/Livers/Noel/Stew are all plus defenders.
And there are levels of how bad a guy is. Bojan and Bey are very bad but they compete and try hard on defense, Bagley is even worse, Ivey is terrible and inconsistent, Cade is inconsistent, Duren is still lost, CoJo is too small
Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app
Championships
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
- vege
- RealGM
- Posts: 20,823
- And1: 4,799
- Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
mattao313 wrote:I'd put both cade and ivey in the very bad with bey and Bojan tbh.vege wrote:tmorgan wrote:The whole roster has three guys that can be called plus defenders as of today.
You can’t make a strong castle out of wheelbarrows of manure.
Killian/Burks/Hami/Livers/Noel/Stew are all plus defenders.
And there are levels of how bad a guy is. Bojan and Bey are very bad but they compete and try hard on defense, Bagley is even worse, Ivey is terrible and inconsistent, Cade is inconsistent, Duren is still lost, CoJo is too small
Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app
Cade goes from very good to very bad, sometimes in the same game. He is inconsistent. Ivey is worse than Bojan and Bey right now. Too many mistakes, too many gambles, but he is going to be good, same with Duren, he is bad right now but he is going to be good.
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
- Manocad
- RealGM
- Posts: 69,969
- And1: 10,562
- Joined: Dec 13, 2005
- Location: Middle Fingerton
- Contact:
-
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
tmorgan wrote:The whole roster has three guys that can be called plus defenders as of today.
You can’t make a strong castle out of wheelbarrows of manure.
For sure. And Rome wasn't built in a day. Given some good coaching it's highly likely the defense can improve; we've already seen some games where it was like night and day so it's not like this team is utterly incapable of playing decent defense; they just need a consistently higher effort coupled with higher defensive IQ. That can be coached up.
And of course it will be fun to watch the whining along the way.


Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
- whitehops
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,295
- And1: 6,997
- Joined: Dec 12, 2012
- Location: Toronto
-
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
JohnReese wrote:Killian got in big trouble today. Casey realized that Ivey plays better without him and Burks is a better PG. Don't be surprised if he does not play at all when everybody is healthy. For me the biggest problem of Killian at this point is that he struggles to create anything for the other players, his ball handling is not good and he is not good playing pick and roll.
Yeah I’m glad he didn’t get a minute in the fourth quarter, there was just such a glaring difference between ivey and burks handling Toronto’s high pressure D relatively well and Hayes struggling to even dribble.
I think it’s hard to say Hayes is more able to create offense than Cade, Ivey, bojan, bey or burks so being at best 6th best at creating offense it’s hard to see them gifting him the primary ball handler role off the bench the entire season. I’m hoping them sitting him the fourth quarter is the start of his leash tightening.
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 14,257
- And1: 9,742
- Joined: Feb 04, 2005
- Location: San Francisco, CA
-
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
vege wrote:tmorgan wrote:The whole roster has three guys that can be called plus defenders as of today.
You can’t make a strong castle out of wheelbarrows of manure.
Killian/Burks/Hami/Livers/Noel/Stew are all plus defenders.
And there are levels of how bad a guy is. Bojan and Bey are very bad but they compete and try hard on defense, Bagley is even worse, Ivey is terrible and inconsistent, Cade is inconsistent, Duren is still lost, CoJo is too small
Hmm. My three were Killian, Hami and Stewart.
I forgot about Livers, so yeah, I’ll give you four. Burks I’m unsure of, as I haven’t gotten a big enough sample yet and hadn’t paid close attention to him in years. Noel barely plays, and his rep is as a block-chaser, so I’ll disagree there. Maybe Thibs beat some sense into him, but again, small sample size as a Piston.
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
- vege
- RealGM
- Posts: 20,823
- And1: 4,799
- Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Re: Pistons-Raptors (7pm)
tmorgan wrote:vege wrote:tmorgan wrote:The whole roster has three guys that can be called plus defenders as of today.
You can’t make a strong castle out of wheelbarrows of manure.
Killian/Burks/Hami/Livers/Noel/Stew are all plus defenders.
And there are levels of how bad a guy is. Bojan and Bey are very bad but they compete and try hard on defense, Bagley is even worse, Ivey is terrible and inconsistent, Cade is inconsistent, Duren is still lost, CoJo is too small
Hmm. My three were Killian, Hami and Stewart.
I forgot about Livers, so yeah, I’ll give you four. Burks I’m unsure of, as I haven’t gotten a big enough sample yet and hadn’t paid close attention to him in years. Noel barely plays, and his rep is as a block-chaser, so I’ll disagree there. Maybe Thibs beat some sense into him, but again, small sample size as a Piston.
Noel was one of the best defenders when he was healthy a couple of years ago and Burks is a plus defender. He is not amazing at anything other than 3's but he is a solid all around veteran, that can hit 3's defend and handle the ball, and have good size for a guard.
Our 2 best defenders are Stew and Killian.