Pistons-Suns (9pm - EXTRA)

[bstein14]

he was primarily defended by cameron payne, who is a notoriously poor defender.

Really? I thought I saw Bridges on him primarily. My rose color Killian glasses are foggy I gues

He was. And vice versa.

You can very quickly watch all 18 of Hayes' FGAs on the box score and see he was almost always guarded by Payne except for when Payne was out. I think that Bridges was switched onto him one time. https://www.nba.com/game/det-vs-phx-0022200283/box-score#box-score

[whitehops]

Really? I thought I saw Bridges on him primarily. My rose color Killian glasses are foggy I gues

He was. And vice versa.

You can very quickly watch all 18 of Hayes' FGAs on the box score and see he was almost always guarded by Payne except for when Payne was out. I think that Bridges was switched onto him one time. https://www.nba.com/game/det-vs-phx-0022200283/box-score#box-score

it's difficult to even start to have an honest discussion about our players when posters make blatantly incorrect statements that are further supported by other posters.

[whitehops]

Good games by both Hayes and Bagley. Burks could stand to dial back the quick shots and Livers has got to start providing more. 7 pts, 1 rebound, 1 assist and 1 steal in 30 minutes isn't cutting it.

do you think it was a good game FOR hayes or that hayes played a good game compared to league-average players who are supposed to run the offense?

Are you asking relative to actual metrics for league average PG’s compared to Killian’s stats for this one game, or from the standpoint of an insistence that Killian is still a bad player no matter what kind of game he has?

Had Killian hit two more bunnies that he missed a few of, he would have had a great game by the numbers. As it was he shot 38.9% and was one made shot away from league average for PG’s. And he also had double the amount of rebounds and assists as the league average PG.

you're the one who made the claim that hayes had a good game so i'll just let you clarify what your criteria was without any of my own influence. and i don't mean the hypothetical game hayes had *if* he made more shots or *if* he made more plays or *if* or *if*...

[ComboGuardCity]

He was. And vice versa.

You can very quickly watch all 18 of Hayes' FGAs on the box score and see he was almost always guarded by Payne except for when Payne was out. I think that Bridges was switched onto him one time. https://www.nba.com/game/det-vs-phx-0022200283/box-score#box-score

it's difficult to even start to have an honest discussion about our players when posters make blatantly incorrect statements that are further supported by other posters.

Not everything has to have an agenda. I can be wrong without being blatantly wrong. I went back and watched the box score and he was in fact only against bridges for 4 of his shots. However, his primary defender in the second half appears to be Craig when the Suns went to a hybrid zone. Some would say the statement “almost always guarded by Payne” is blatantly wrong…especially when the statement is made by the person who posted the source.

[bstein14]

You can very quickly watch all 18 of Hayes' FGAs on the box score and see he was almost always guarded by Payne except for when Payne was out. I think that Bridges was switched onto him one time. https://www.nba.com/game/det-vs-phx-0022200283/box-score#box-score

it's difficult to even start to have an honest discussion about our players when posters make blatantly incorrect statements that are further supported by other posters.

Not everything has to have an agenda. I can be wrong without being blatantly wrong. I went back and watched the box score and he was in fact only against bridges for 4 of his shots. However, his primary defender in the second half appears to be Craig when the Suns went to a hybrid zone. Some would say the statement “almost always guarded by Payne” is blatantly wrong…especially when the statement is made by the person who posted the source.

Field Goals Attempts - Outcome - Defender
1 - Make - Payne
2 - Miss - Booker
3 - Make - Payne
4 - Make - Bridges
5 - Miss - Lee
6 - Miss - Payne
7 - Miss airball 3 - Payne
8 - Make - Lee (was being guarded by Payne but a screen and switch moved Lee onto him)
9 - Make - Payne
------ HALF TIME ------
10 - Miss - Payne
11 - Miss - Craig
12 - Miss - Craig
13 - Miss - Booker
14 - Miss -(Wrong video in feeds its a McGruder miss, but Hayes was being guarded by Payne in this clip before a screen was switched)
15 - Miss - Washington Jr
16 - Make - Breakaway transition Dunk no Defender
17 - Miss - Craig
18 - Make - Craig

Bridges defender him on literally one shot.

To say that while they were in the game at the same time, most of the time Hayes was guarded by Payne is 100% correct. In the 2nd half they did move Craig to him more, when Knox was in Payne spent some time guarding Knox in the corner since Knox was mostly just standing in the corner on our offensive scheme it makes him easy to guard.

Booker mostly guarded McGruder from our starting unit.
Bridges mostly guarded Bojan from our starting unit.
Ayton mostly guarded Bagley III.

Not sure why there is to disagree about those facts.

[Manocad]

He was. And vice versa.

You can very quickly watch all 18 of Hayes' FGAs on the box score and see he was almost always guarded by Payne except for when Payne was out. I think that Bridges was switched onto him one time. https://www.nba.com/game/det-vs-phx-0022200283/box-score#box-score

it's difficult to even start to have an honest discussion about our players when posters make blatantly incorrect statements that are further supported by other posters.

Yep, because this is SERIOUS BUSINESS we're handling here.

And it's difficult for you or bstein to post anything that doesn't involve bashing Hayes and Bagley in some way regardless of the thread topic so you're hardly the judge of what constitutes valuable contribution to the forum. Lighten up, Francis.

For the record, yes, I absolutely did support the assertion that contradicted yours for only that reason. I literally remember one possession where Hayes wound up guarding Bridges pretty well and Bridges still hit a contested three.

[Manocad]

do you think it was a good game FOR hayes or that hayes played a good game compared to league-average players who are supposed to run the offense?

Are you asking relative to actual metrics for league average PG’s compared to Killian’s stats for this one game, or from the standpoint of an insistence that Killian is still a bad player no matter what kind of game he has?

Had Killian hit two more bunnies that he missed a few of, he would have had a great game by the numbers. As it was he shot 38.9% and was one made shot away from league average for PG’s. And he also had double the amount of rebounds and assists as the league average PG.

you're the one who made the claim that hayes had a good game so i'll just let you clarify what your criteria was without any of my own influence. and i don't mean the hypothetical game hayes had *if* he made more shots or *if* he made more plays or *if* or *if*...

I did clarify it.

[Manocad]

it's difficult to even start to have an honest discussion about our players when posters make blatantly incorrect statements that are further supported by other posters.

Not everything has to have an agenda. I can be wrong without being blatantly wrong. I went back and watched the box score and he was in fact only against bridges for 4 of his shots. However, his primary defender in the second half appears to be Craig when the Suns went to a hybrid zone. Some would say the statement “almost always guarded by Payne” is blatantly wrong…especially when the statement is made by the person who posted the source.

Field Goals Attempts - Outcome - Defender
1 - Make - Payne
2 - Miss - Booker
3 - Make - Payne
4 - Make - Bridges
5 - Miss - Lee
6 - Miss - Payne
7 - Miss airball 3 - Payne
8 - Make - Lee (was being guarded by Payne but a screen and switch moved Lee onto him)
9 - Make - Payne
------ HALF TIME ------
10 - Miss - Payne
11 - Miss - Craig
12 - Miss - Craig
13 - Miss - Booker
14 - Miss -(Wrong video in feeds its a McGruder miss, but Hayes was being guarded by Payne in this clip before a screen was switched)
15 - Miss - Washington Jr
16 - Make - Breakaway transition Dunk no Defender
17 - Miss - Craig
18 - Make - Craig

Bridges defender him on literally one shot.

To say that while they were in the game at the same time, most of the time Hayes was guarded by Payne is 100% correct. In the 2nd half they did move Craig to him more, when Knox was in Payne spent some time guarding Knox in the corner since Knox was mostly just standing in the corner on our offensive scheme it makes him easy to guard.

Booker mostly guarded McGruder from our starting unit.
Bridges mostly guarded Bojan from our starting unit.
Ayton mostly guarded Bagley III.

Not sure why there is to disagree about those facts.

To watch the ensuing dance.

[ComboGuardCity]

it's difficult to even start to have an honest discussion about our players when posters make blatantly incorrect statements that are further supported by other posters.

Not everything has to have an agenda. I can be wrong without being blatantly wrong. I went back and watched the box score and he was in fact only against bridges for 4 of his shots. However, his primary defender in the second half appears to be Craig when the Suns went to a hybrid zone. Some would say the statement “almost always guarded by Payne” is blatantly wrong…especially when the statement is made by the person who posted the source.

Field Goals Attempts - Outcome - Defender
1 - Make - Payne
2 - Miss - Booker
3 - Make - Payne
4 - Make - Bridges
5 - Miss - Lee
6 - Miss - Payne
7 - Miss airball 3 - Payne
8 - Make - Lee (was being guarded by Payne but a screen and switch moved Lee onto him)
9 - Make - Payne
------ HALF TIME ------
10 - Miss - Payne
11 - Miss - Craig
12 - Miss - Craig
13 - Miss - Booker
14 - Miss -(Wrong video in feeds its a McGruder miss, but Hayes was being guarded by Payne in this clip before a screen was switched)
15 - Miss - Washington Jr
16 - Make - Breakaway transition Dunk no Defender
17 - Miss - Craig
18 - Make - Craig

Bridges defender him on literally one shot.

To say that while they were in the game at the same time, most of the time Hayes was guarded by Payne is 100% correct. In the 2nd half they did move Craig to him more, when Knox was in Payne spent some time guarding Knox in the corner since Knox was mostly just standing in the corner on our offensive scheme it makes him easy to guard.

Booker mostly guarded McGruder from our starting unit.
Bridges mostly guarded Bojan from our starting unit.
Ayton mostly guarded Bagley III.

Not sure why there is to disagree about those facts.

So that’s always being guarded by Payne? I was wrong, but your statement is inaccurate too

[Manocad]

Not everything has to have an agenda. I can be wrong without being blatantly wrong. I went back and watched the box score and he was in fact only against bridges for 4 of his shots. However, his primary defender in the second half appears to be Craig when the Suns went to a hybrid zone. Some would say the statement “almost always guarded by Payne” is blatantly wrong…especially when the statement is made by the person who posted the source.

Field Goals Attempts - Outcome - Defender
1 - Make - Payne
2 - Miss - Booker
3 - Make - Payne
4 - Make - Bridges
5 - Miss - Lee
6 - Miss - Payne
7 - Miss airball 3 - Payne
8 - Make - Lee (was being guarded by Payne but a screen and switch moved Lee onto him)
9 - Make - Payne
------ HALF TIME ------
10 - Miss - Payne
11 - Miss - Craig
12 - Miss - Craig
13 - Miss - Booker
14 - Miss -(Wrong video in feeds its a McGruder miss, but Hayes was being guarded by Payne in this clip before a screen was switched)
15 - Miss - Washington Jr
16 - Make - Breakaway transition Dunk no Defender
17 - Miss - Craig
18 - Make - Craig

Bridges defender him on literally one shot.

To say that while they were in the game at the same time, most of the time Hayes was guarded by Payne is 100% correct. In the 2nd half they did move Craig to him more, when Knox was in Payne spent some time guarding Knox in the corner since Knox was mostly just standing in the corner on our offensive scheme it makes him easy to guard.

Booker mostly guarded McGruder from our starting unit.
Bridges mostly guarded Bojan from our starting unit.
Ayton mostly guarded Bagley III.

Not sure why there is to disagree about those facts.

So that’s always being guarded by Payne? I was wrong, but your statement is inaccurate too

Yeah, it's difficult to even start to have an honest discussion about our players when posters make blatantly incorrect statements that are further supported by other posters.

[bstein14]

Field Goals Attempts - Outcome - Defender
1 - Make - Payne
2 - Miss - Booker
3 - Make - Payne
4 - Make - Bridges
5 - Miss - Lee
6 - Miss - Payne
7 - Miss airball 3 - Payne
8 - Make - Lee (was being guarded by Payne but a screen and switch moved Lee onto him)
9 - Make - Payne
------ HALF TIME ------
10 - Miss - Payne
11 - Miss - Craig
12 - Miss - Craig
13 - Miss - Booker
14 - Miss -(Wrong video in feeds its a McGruder miss, but Hayes was being guarded by Payne in this clip before a screen was switched)
15 - Miss - Washington Jr
16 - Make - Breakaway transition Dunk no Defender
17 - Miss - Craig
18 - Make - Craig

Bridges defender him on literally one shot.

To say that while they were in the game at the same time, most of the time Hayes was guarded by Payne is 100% correct. In the 2nd half they did move Craig to him more, when Knox was in Payne spent some time guarding Knox in the corner since Knox was mostly just standing in the corner on our offensive scheme it makes him easy to guard.

Booker mostly guarded McGruder from our starting unit.
Bridges mostly guarded Bojan from our starting unit.
Ayton mostly guarded Bagley III.

Not sure why there is to disagree about those facts.

So that’s always being guarded by Payne? I was wrong, but your statement is inaccurate too

Yeah, it's difficult to even start to have an honest discussion about our players when posters make blatantly incorrect statements that are further supported by other posters.

I said he was mostly guarded by Payne when the two were in the game together. Hayes was in the game for about 8-9 minutes that Payne wasn't in the game so of course some of Hayes' attempts were made when Payne wasn't in the game, and those were in the 2nd half.

When the two were both in the game together, Hayes was mostly defended by Payne.

[Cowology]

Bagley comes out and we immediately give up an uncontested layup. Coincidence??

[bstein14]

Bagley comes out and we immediately give up an uncontested layup. Coincidence??

This game ended two days ago.