Pistons-Sixers #2 (7pm)

[buzzkilloton]

This team seems so far behind in its rebuild, I wish we were the magic. I know the team has 58 players out, but Holy crap this game tonight was brutal.

Does anyone within the organization have any pride whatsoever? I felt like Apollos trainer.

Throw in the damn towel!

Orlando was able to hit the reset button much faster, because they actually had players they could get first round picks for in Vucevic and Gordon. Same goes for Indy selling off vets and getting picks.

We had negative assets we had to pay to go away.

That said, Weaver still is far from perfect and has made some questionable moves. Weaver really needs the following to happen in the next 10 months.

#1. A really good trade before the trade deadline that nets us a nice future asset or young player. (Feb 2023)
-1B. This could also be pushed back to after the end of the season and before the draft, but ideally it happens prior.
#2. Getting lucky and landing a top 3 pick in the draft lottery. (May 17th 2023)
#3. Spending FA $$ on the right one or two player(s) (Early July 2023)
#4. A coaching change, OR Casey getting a new lead offensive assistant.
#5. The team to establish a defensive mindset and identity starting in training camp and carrying through the season. (Sept 23)
#6. Cade to come back and be fully healthy and a near all-star level talent for us (Oct/Nov 2023)
#7. Really good intenal growth from some of the Weaver 1st round picks currently on the team (All summer and into season 2023)

If just 1 or 2 of these things happen we're in trouble. Weaver needs at least 4 or 5 of these things to happen for us to really have a chance to take a step forward.

I feel confident that Weaver can make a good trade. A top 2 pick in the lotto comes down to pure luck. I'm not even sure we fire Casey. I would expect Cade to eventually get healthy but its not a lock that hes back and good next season.

The defensive mindset is going to take new additions. The guys we have now just dont have it outside of Kill.

[zeebneeb]

This team seems so far behind in its rebuild, I wish we were the magic. I know the team has 58 players out, but Holy crap this game tonight was brutal.

Does anyone within the organization have any pride whatsoever? I felt like Apollos trainer.

Throw in the damn towel!

Orlando was able to hit the reset button much faster, because they actually had players they could get first round picks for in Vucevic and Gordon. Same goes for Indy selling off vets and getting picks.

We had negative assets we had to pay to go away.

That said, Weaver still is far from perfect and has made some questionable moves. Weaver really needs the following to happen in the next 10 months.

#1. A really good trade before the trade deadline that nets us a nice future asset or young player. (Feb 2023)
-1B. This could also be pushed back to after the end of the season and before the draft, but ideally it happens prior.
#2. Getting lucky and landing a top 3 pick in the draft lottery. (May 17th 2023)
#3. Spending FA $$ on the right one or two player(s) (Early July 2023)
#4. A coaching change, OR Casey getting a new lead offensive assistant.
#5. The team to establish a defensive mindset and identity starting in training camp and carrying through the season. (Sept 23)
#6. Cade to come back and be fully healthy and a near all-star level talent for us (Oct/Nov 2023)
#7. Really good intenal growth from some of the Weaver 1st round picks currently on the team (All summer and into season 2023)

If just 1 or 2 of these things happen we're in trouble. Weaver needs at least 4 or 5 of these things to happen for us to really have a chance to take a step forward.

The reason my faith is so shaken in this current "process" is numerous.

1.)Coaching. It has become painfully obvious Casey is not the man to lead this team. Now people outside of the organization are starting to take notice. Casey should have been fired after this years horrendous start.

2.)Defense. This is historically the worst defensive Pistons team ever. Think about all the bad Piston teams you've seen, none of them had worse defense.

3.)Bad habits. I don't care who you are, losing enough will destroy anyone's spirit. It has gotten so bad, the team may end up needing another reset, as the current crop has lost faith. This is not hyperbole, it is a real thing that happens. Bad habits become the norm.

4.)Absolutely no progress. Everyone knows teams that reset, have to be terrible. This team, even with multiple lottery picks, free agents, and first rounders, continually gets worse. This makes no sense, as if your adding better players, the team gets better.

5.)This years start. The games that had Cade, and most of the team were downright terrible. Set a team record for being down double digits the most times in a row. This is unacceptable, but instead of firing Casey out of a cannon, making it known there will be accountability, not a damn thing happened.


I cannot for the life of me figure out what the hell the goal is for this year. If Weaver gets lucky and does get to draft VW, is he going to keep Casey? What if the Pistons land #4? How in the hell is the team going to be better next year? Unless there is some massive trade, and the team lands a whale, how much of the current team will have to be moved? I am an optimist by nature, but short of the team landing VW, and a new coach, can I see a universe where this team improves next year. All of Cades second year is gone. Bey has regressed. Ivey seems lost, and no one can play defense apparently.

This whole situation is depressing. The bright spots for me this year is Duren, and Hayes sudden growth.

I'm sure there will be people poo-pooing what I'm saying, but I would love to hear how they see this team possibly being better next year. I just don't.

[mattao313]

We just need one of our guys or a future pick to turn into a bona-fide star player until then we have no base.

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[flow]

process Sixers bad

Worse.

Hinkie made no secret that he was trying to lose. He got rid of every decent player and compiled a roster of total scrubs. He never pretended/stated that he was trying/expecting to compete. Never went out and signed good vets. It was called 'the process' for a reason.

Weaver's trying to be somewhat competitive, yet the team is just as bad as those Sixers teams.

[NYPiston]

This team seems so far behind in its rebuild, I wish we were the magic. I know the team has 58 players out, but Holy crap this game tonight was brutal.

Does anyone within the organization have any pride whatsoever? I felt like Apollos trainer.

Throw in the damn towel!

I only watched bits and pieces of the game but it's clear that this is a team tuning out the coach. Effort level was a joke and they were just chucking up random shots. There were a ton of injuries but there's no excuse for whatever that was last night.

Generally though, I'd say that the team has been fairly competitive in most games despite their best player being out the entire season pretty much so it's not all doomsday but efforts like last night are starting to become a little more frequent lately, the losing is really starting to effect these guys I think and they need a new voice in the room. Tough for the young guys to develop in an environment like this.

Ultimately, this franchise will go as far as Cade will take it so with him out this season it's almost impossible to evaluate how their future looks. This season is a write off due to that. If they had a healthy Cade, maybe they could have taken an Orlando/OKC type of jump if he progressed. Without him, it was game over.

[Absolutia]

I'm sorry to be a little hopeful - and despite my nausea at watching this team - I can't help thinking that we ended last season well and will significantly improve beyond that level.

[vege]

Weaver need to go. Garbage GM.

[zeebneeb]

This team seems so far behind in its rebuild, I wish we were the magic. I know the team has 58 players out, but Holy crap this game tonight was brutal.

Does anyone within the organization have any pride whatsoever? I felt like Apollos trainer.

Throw in the damn towel!

I only watched bits and pieces of the game but it's clear that this is a team tuning out the coach. Effort level was a joke and they were just chucking up random shots. There were a ton of injuries but there's no excuse for whatever that was last night.

Generally though, I'd say that the team has been fairly competitive in most games despite their best player being out the entire season pretty much so it's not all doomsday but efforts like last night are starting to become a little more frequent lately, the losing is really starting to effect these guys I think and they need a new voice in the room. Tough for the young guys to develop in an environment like this.

Ultimately, this franchise will go as far as Cade will take it so with him out this season it's almost impossible to evaluate how their future looks. This season is a write off due to that. If they had a healthy Cade, maybe they could have taken an Orlando/OKC type of jump if he progressed. Without him, it was game over.

I'll agree with this. My worry is that Weaver is incapable of seeing just how poor of a coach Casey is, and the possible damage he has already done to some of these players.

As a GM, in terms of roster, he has done a good job, but he has a huge blindspot when it comes to coaching.

[NYPiston]

I'm sure there will be people poo-pooing what I'm saying, but I would love to hear how they see this team possibly being better next year. I just don't.

Not poo-pooing what you're saying because you have good reason to be frustrated but the Pistons are missing a pretty big piece this season. I think it's easy to see where their growth could come from. A healthy Cade Cunningham, another potential franchise player from the draft, lots of cap space for additions and the potential growth of their many other young players, you'd think that at least a few should progress, and what should be a new coach if Weaver had any sense.

We've discussed this before. I think that perhaps you and some others had too lofty of an expectation coming into this season. This was one of the youngest teams in the league surrounded by a few one dimensional vets. Outside of Cade showing exponential growth, this was never going to be more than a bottom 5 team. Take Cade out of the equation (and he was hampered even when he played this season) and where are the wins coming from? Performances like last night leave a bad taste in the mouth and it's no doubt a poorly coached team but this roster is outmanned just about every night so there are going to be some really bad nights sprinkled in especially on the road. Nobody should be happy with this season but it's not entirely unexpected IMO.

I think if Cade was healthy and progressed, it would have changed the entire dynamic because he's the type of player that makes everybody better. I bet their record would be up there with Orlando if that happened but without Cade, this thing was bound to crumble.
I get your frustration though. It sucks to watch this in the present as we look towards the future.

[Sort]

I actually think Casey's job is perfectly safe, because of Weaver had any sense of a coach being responsible for outcomes, he would have already fired him. I mean Pistons have played hard in what 20 games this year? We're half way through the season.

The argument that everyone knew Pistons weren't going to win many games is false. There's a difference between young guys learning the grind of the NBA and that's why you lose versus just being checked out and giving minimal effort.

Look, none of us know what's going on in practice and all that, but when last night is the final product, when your team is a joke, your coach should be on the way out and the GM should be next in line.

As others have pointed out, Pistons aren't just bad; they are historically bad.

[zeebneeb]

I'm sure there will be people poo-pooing what I'm saying, but I would love to hear how they see this team possibly being better next year. I just don't.

Not poo-pooing what you're saying because you have good reason to be frustrated but the Pistons are missing a pretty big piece this season. I think it's easy to see where their growth could come from. A healthy Cade Cunningham, another potential franchise player from the draft, lots of cap space for additions and the potential growth of their many other young players, you'd think that at least a few should progress, and what should be a new coach if Weaver had any sense.

We've discussed this before. I think that perhaps you and some others had too lofty of an expectation coming into this season. This was one of the youngest teams in the league surrounded by a few one dimensional vets. Outside of Cade showing exponential growth, this was never going to be more than a bottom 5 team. Take Cade out of the equation (and he was hampered even when he played this season) and where are the wins coming from? Performances like last night leave a bad taste in the mouth and it's no doubt a poorly coached team but this roster is outmanned just about every night so there are going to be some really bad nights sprinkled in especially on the road. Nobody should be happy with this season but it's not entirely unexpected IMO.

I think if Cade was healthy and progressed, it would have changed the entire dynamic because he's the type of player that makes everybody better. I bet their record would be up there with Orlando if that happened but without Cade, this thing was bound to crumble.
I get your frustration though. It sucks to watch this in the present as we look towards the future.

excellent post.

[Kalamazoo317]

We're definitely the worst we've ever been on defense. But to put it in context, this is probably also the most offensively talented the league has ever been, with some of the friendliest rules for offense ever, and quite possibly our youngest roster ever, not to mention with our star player out. So it's bad, but a fair number of the factors are out of our control or make some sense in our trajectory.