2023-24 Roster

[whitehops]

I'm not quite sure what getting to the line has to do with being a heliocentric type of player.

Besides numerous articles that call him a heliocentric player, I decided to do some comparisons between Cades rookie year, and Lukas rookie year in several key stats, for guards. (nevermind just watching the two players play their game, which I have. Every single Cade game, and almost every single Luka game)

MPG Luka-32.2 Cade-32.6

Touches Luka-83.8 Cade-77.0

Front court Touches Luka-36.2 Cade-30.5

Time of possession Luka-6.5 Cade-5.8

Seconds per touch Luka-4.65 Cade-4.54

Dribbles per touch Luka-4.02 Cade-3.90

Points per touch Luka-.253 Cade-.227

The similarities on the court visually are close, but when you dig into what each player during their rookie year did with the ball, it becomes even more striking. The bolded stats show exactly what each player did when they got the ball.(The other stats are important as well, the bolded just shows what they did with the ball. Different personal, and coaches have more of an impact on the other stats)

When Cade is on the floor, the entire flow of the offense, and game, ran through him.

That is the definition of a heliocentric guard.

cade's been pretty heliocentric his entire basketball career. he was in high school, he was at oklahoma state and has been with the pistons. heck, even though it was just a pick up game he looked to be on another level and was heliocentric in the rookie-sophomore game. he has his weaknesses in some areas but i'd say the biggest learning curve for him is playing off the ball.

in cade's rookie year we had nobody that could create their own offense so cade had to do pretty much all of it. now though ivey is showing he can create advantages and bojan is very skilled so cade will have to learn to play a little more off ball, even though the offense should still be flowing through him most of the time. i think there can be a perfect harmony there but it'll take some time for the guys to develop their weaknesses.

[mattao313]

Cade=Joe Johnson big crafty guard that can playmake and score in isolation but can't carry a whole offense because he can't create easy buckets by getting to the line consistently.

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[The Moose]

I think we're asking the wrong question if the question is 'can Cade be a heliocentric player', the question should be whether it's justified and whether it is a path to success.

Heliocentric offenses have major flaws, Lebron is probably the only guy who makes it work on a championship level, and he is arguably the most all around player in the history of the sport. Luka and Harden are the two most recent examples, and the flaws of a heliocentric system have typically shown up for their teams in the playoffs.

Luka and Harden are two of the most efficient heavy, heavy usage guys in the history of the league, and even then, the system has failed numerous times. Both live off an incredibly high diet of free throw attempts and volume 3pt shooting to maintain these levels of efficiency, couple with fantastic passing and playmaking.
Cade, right now, is neither a high volume free throw shooter nor a high volume 3pt shooter, and without at least one of these tools (preferably both) there simply isn't a path to running a successful heliocentric offensive system through him. Right now his scoring is predicated heavily on making a high volume of difficult mid range jump shots

[tmorgan]

Cade=Joe Johnson big crafty guard that can playmake and score in isolation but can't carry a whole offense because he can't create easy buckets by getting to the line consistently.

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Current Cade hasn’t reached Iso Joe’s level as a self-creator, but he definitely sees the floor better than Joe ever did.

[mattao313]

Cade=Joe Johnson big crafty guard that can playmake and score in isolation but can't carry a whole offense because he can't create easy buckets by getting to the line consistently.

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Current Cade hasn’t reached Iso Joe’s level as a self-creator, but he definitely sees the floor better than Joe ever did.

Debatable Joe was a nice passer and also I don't think Cade is a real PG but no comparison is one to one so I'll give you that.

Joe Johnson/Brandon Roy are my closest comps.

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[Kalamazoo317]

I definitely hope we don't go fully heliocentric with the offense and Cade and Ivey manage to work together more cohesively both on ball and off. One big reason I'm not in a hurry to draft another high usage on ball player, though (i.e. Scoot).

[Spider156]

I definitely hope we don't go fully heliocentric with the offense and Cade and Ivey manage to work together more cohesively both on ball and off. One big reason I'm not in a hurry to draft another high usage on ball player, though (i.e. Scoot).

I think they’re high usage but I also think many teams have more than one high usage player. See the Suns for example Chris Paul Booker Durant they all need the ball in their hands to make a difference. Same happened with Westbrook harden Durant, the team made a mistake and thought there were too many high usage players. It doesn’t make sense to me that a backcourt of scoot Ivey Cade wouldn’t work out. They’d need time is the problem but I think they’d eventually figure it out if they’re good enough which they are. If anything I think Scoot and Ivey play similarly as guards and Cade’s a different game. I just can’t wait until May 16. I’ll be sad if Wenbenyama goes to another team but I won’t be sad if we land Scoot. He’s an amazing talent, we need him.

[Kalamazoo317]

Is Durant actually that high usage? He seems like one of the most flexible superstars we've seen.