Pistons-Magic #1 (Summer League)

[dbuch238]

Did anyone notice the plus/minus in the box score. Wiseman was plus 20 and Duren was minus 8, the only minus on the Pistons. With Wiseman- Duren playing together so much, Orlando must have done a lot of scoring when Wiseman was sitting.

I'll have to watch it again to see what each was doing on defense.

[MotownMadness]

Those Duren midrange jumpers were so nice. Also loved that play were Ausar connected with Wiseman on that fast break dunk.

[MortSahlfan]

There aren't guys as big as Shaq, Sabonis, Yao, etc.. Shaq should have worked on FT shooting... Every time he'd shoot a jumper, the defense would sigh a huge sigh of relief. It's why we got Elden Campbell -- hurt him a bit with those 6 fouls and his size/build.

Duren is said to have had another growth spurt. I really want him to work on his free throw shooting. Shaq was relatively skinny as a rookie, and I think Duren will add more weight naturally and could be near impossible to stop. Jokic is too slow and not much of a rim protector. Duren has a quick second jump, should score buckets with tip-ins, too... I hope he works on both hands and footwork. Jalen Brunson has one pivot move, and it works every time. The defensive schemes aren't complicated at all, and I like the idea of getting opposing teams in foul trouble. They can't hurt us on the bench. And then their defenses have to play softer, which might help our guys' percentages. With the right playmaking, our guys have to improve their 3pt %, but when they get the ball at their feet, it's the difference between a swish and a brick. Inside-out ball... Teams will have to double Duren, and then swing the ball, and take good, open 3's.

[bstein14]

There aren't guys as big as Shaq, Sabonis, Yao, etc.. Shaq should have worked on FT shooting... Every time he'd shoot a jumper, the defense would sigh a huge sigh of relief. It's why we got Elden Campbell -- hurt him a bit with those 6 fouls and his size/build.

Duren is said to have had another growth spurt. I really want him to work on his free throw shooting. Shaq was relatively skinny as a rookie, and I think Duren will add more weight naturally and could be near impossible to stop. Jokic is too slow and not much of a rim protector. Duren has a quick second jump, should score buckets with tip-ins, too... I hope he works on both hands and footwork. Jalen Brunson has one pivot move, and it works every time. The defensive schemes aren't complicated at all, and I like the idea of getting opposing teams in foul trouble. They can't hurt us on the bench. And then their defenses have to play softer, which might help our guys' percentages. With the right playmaking, our guys have to improve their 3pt %, but when they get the ball at their feet, it's the difference between a swish and a brick. Inside-out ball... Teams will have to double Duren, and then swing the ball, and take good, open 3's.

You want the Pistons to try and post up Duren down low with his back to the basket? The NBA has seemingly moved away from this almost completely... very few guys in the league (maybe Jokic and Embiid) get more than 3 or 4 post ups per game.

I think we're likely in a spot where you want him to be able to catch it 15 ft from the basket and either hit a jump, make the right pass, or turn and face up and be able to put the ball on the floor. The back to the basket post up days seem like they are just about extinct in the NBA now.

[ComboGuardCity]

There aren't guys as big as Shaq, Sabonis, Yao, etc.. Shaq should have worked on FT shooting... Every time he'd shoot a jumper, the defense would sigh a huge sigh of relief. It's why we got Elden Campbell -- hurt him a bit with those 6 fouls and his size/build.

Duren is said to have had another growth spurt. I really want him to work on his free throw shooting. Shaq was relatively skinny as a rookie, and I think Duren will add more weight naturally and could be near impossible to stop. Jokic is too slow and not much of a rim protector. Duren has a quick second jump, should score buckets with tip-ins, too... I hope he works on both hands and footwork. Jalen Brunson has one pivot move, and it works every time. The defensive schemes aren't complicated at all, and I like the idea of getting opposing teams in foul trouble. They can't hurt us on the bench. And then their defenses have to play softer, which might help our guys' percentages. With the right playmaking, our guys have to improve their 3pt %, but when they get the ball at their feet, it's the difference between a swish and a brick. Inside-out ball... Teams will have to double Duren, and then swing the ball, and take good, open 3's.

I think the growth spurt rumors were fake

[Snakebites]

There aren't guys as big as Shaq, Sabonis, Yao, etc.. Shaq should have worked on FT shooting... Every time he'd shoot a jumper, the defense would sigh a huge sigh of relief. It's why we got Elden Campbell -- hurt him a bit with those 6 fouls and his size/build.

Duren is said to have had another growth spurt. I really want him to work on his free throw shooting. Shaq was relatively skinny as a rookie, and I think Duren will add more weight naturally and could be near impossible to stop. Jokic is too slow and not much of a rim protector. Duren has a quick second jump, should score buckets with tip-ins, too... I hope he works on both hands and footwork. Jalen Brunson has one pivot move, and it works every time. The defensive schemes aren't complicated at all, and I like the idea of getting opposing teams in foul trouble. They can't hurt us on the bench. And then their defenses have to play softer, which might help our guys' percentages. With the right playmaking, our guys have to improve their 3pt %, but when they get the ball at their feet, it's the difference between a swish and a brick. Inside-out ball... Teams will have to double Duren, and then swing the ball, and take good, open 3's.

I think the growth spurt rumors were fake

Yeah. He looked the same to me.

[bstein14]

Wiseman still looks very clearly taller than Duren when they were side by side next to each other yesterday. At least an inch maybe 2 talller.

[MotownMadness]

Wiseman still looks very clearly taller than Duren when they were side by side next to each other yesterday. At least an inch maybe 2 talller.

Wiseman is a legit 7 footer

[MortSahlfan]

Duren is listed at 6-11, which is close enough. I don't think being a Top 10 center is out of reach in the near future.. There's only 30 starting centers, and he's better than some already. I hope he can be a rim protector.

How much is Wiseman going to cost us, though? I just saw the Bucks signing Chris Livingston (?) for 4 yrs, 7 million, which I like.

[Snakebites]

Duren is our future center, and the guy who should be playing alongside him at the 4 isn't currently on the roster.

Anyone who thinks those perimeter plays we saw from Duren make him a possible four isn't thinking in terms of what the center position looks like in this day and age. Duren is a center in this league- he shouldn't be playing anywhere else.

I really don't want to see us play around with these bigger lineups with 2 centers anymore.

[MotownMadness]

Duren is listed at 6-11, which is close enough. I don't think being a Top 10 center is out of reach in the near future.. There's only 30 starting centers, and he's better than some already. I hope he can be a rim protector.

How much is Wiseman going to cost us, though? I just saw the Bucks signing Chris Livingston (?) for 4 yrs, 7 million, which I like.

Yeah we probably cant afford to keep Wiseman. I don't expect him and Hayes to be around much longer

[GreekAlex]

Duren is our future center, and the guy who should be playing alongside him at the 4 isn't currently on the roster.

Anyone who thinks those perimeter plays we saw from Duren make him a possible four isn't thinking in terms of what the center position looks like in this day and age. Duren is a center in this league- he shouldn't be playing anywhere else.

I really don't want to see us play around with these bigger lineups with 2 centers anymore.

Is there any benefit to pigeonhole a 19-year-old into a specific label at this point?

[bstein14]

Duren is our future center, and the guy who should be playing alongside him at the 4 isn't currently on the roster.

Anyone who thinks those perimeter plays we saw from Duren make him a possible four isn't thinking in terms of what the center position looks like in this day and age. Duren is a center in this league- he shouldn't be playing anywhere else.

I really don't want to see us play around with these bigger lineups with 2 centers anymore.

Is there any benefit to pigeonhole a 19-year-old into a specific label at this point?

Agreed... I have a feeling he'll end up more like a vesrion of Kemp or Giannis than a traditional center. I feel like his skillset is going to much beyond just rebounding, rim running, post ups, rim protecting, etc. Hopefully he develops the ability to get it at 18 ft turn up and face his man and take him off the dribble.

[theBigLip]

Duren is listed at 6-11, which is close enough. I don't think being a Top 10 center is out of reach in the near future.. There's only 30 starting centers, and he's better than some already. I hope he can be a rim protector.

How much is Wiseman going to cost us, though? I just saw the Bucks signing Chris Livingston (?) for 4 yrs, 7 million, which I like.

Yeah we probably cant afford to keep Wiseman. I don't expect him and Hayes to be around much longer

I think we should be able to retain him. But there are a lot of variables:
How good does he play this year?
Do other teams really want him?
Do we move Bagley?
How much is he asking for?

There’s a world where he improves this year, enough to be occasionally in the rotation but not a starter. We might be able to lock him up for something near 3/30, which is probably good for both sides

[grpistons]

What overreactions? Did anyone say he should be sent to the g-league? That he's destined to have a terrible season?

Or, rather, just observations that he was out of control and played like crap tonight? Because that's 100% true.

I see a lot of people suggesting Ivey should come off the bench. Hopefully they felt that way before one summer league game?

I mean if you read what they said it's pretty clear they just think he's not the best fit with Cade, which to me makes it pretty clear that it's not a knee-jerk reaction to a bad SL game.

You can disagree with that take but at least frame it correctly.

Last year Cade and Ivey seemed absolute fine together before cade went down. Does that sample size matter not matter more than the 2 SL game sample where they aren't even on the floor together?