Pistons Roster - Solving the overload

[catari11]

Ok. for the critics. let me be more precise. Tobias is fine as far as it goes as far as a starting PF (has Philly ever won anything with him at PF?) IMO he's not an impactful PF. He's a poor defender and a mediocre rebounder. Sure the Pistons could use his shooting but not at the expense of the other two skills. Pistons will have to do better than Tobias if they want to seriously contend. As for Livers, he's too undersized to play PF. And, his availability, as we all know, is questionable given his proclivity for injury.

[theBigLip]

Ok. for the critics. let me be more precise. Tobias is fine as far as it goes as far as a starting PF (has Philly ever won anything with him at PF?) IMO he's not an impactful PF. He's a poor defender and a mediocre rebounder. Sure the Pistons could use his shooting but not at the expense of the other two skills. Pistons will have to do better than Tobias if they want to seriously contend. As for Livers, he's too undersized to play PF. And, his availability, as we all know, is questionable given his proclivity for injury.

Much better Agree that Tobias is good but not great. And not going to be first or second option (maybe not even third) on a good team.

Livers best position would be SF for sure. But he is strong and doesn’t get pushed around.

[theBigLip]

For what it’s worth on ESPN.com

Jeremi Grant SF 6’8” 210
Isiah Livers PF 6’6” 232

[vege]

Ok. for the critics. let me be more precise. Tobias is fine as far as it goes as far as a starting PF (has Philly ever won anything with him at PF?) IMO he's not an impactful PF. He's a poor defender and a mediocre rebounder. Sure the Pistons could use his shooting but not at the expense of the other two skills. Pistons will have to do better than Tobias if they want to seriously contend. As for Livers, he's too undersized to play PF. And, his availability, as we all know, is questionable given his proclivity for injury.

Tobias Harris is 6'6.5 and 225lbs
Isaiah Livers is 6'5.75 and 230lbs

Livers is not too small to play PF. He is 6'7.25 in shoes, that's fine. He is athletic and strong. He is as capable as Tobias to play PF.

Tobias is an ok defender.

You are wrong in a lot of your points, just admit it and move on, instead of bringing more wrong information to try to justificate your opinion.

Tobias would be a huge upgrade for us, and an above average starter for his position. Doesn't mean I want us to acquire him tho.

[NYPiston]

Good posts from Spider and KPTN. A little patience and things will sort themselves out.

Also, I think Livers is going to surprise a lot of people on this board. IMHO, I think he’s closer to being a starter than he is being out of the rotation. Of course he must stay healthy this year.

Where does he fit though?

Bojan-Thompson
Stewart-Bagley
Harris

There's your forwards. The top 4 are going to get tons of minutes and I don't think they brought in Harris at that dollar figure to sit him at the end of the bench. Livers is out of the rotation as of now. Of course injuries happen all the time but we're looking at the roster as is and Livers has a Human Victory Cigar role as of now. Same with Hayes.
There was a clear path for those guys to get minutes even when the team was healthy the last few years. Not the case anymore.

They don't have to rush a trade and I'm sure some vets will be traded in season but that's what I see as of now. Young players that need minutes that will be squeezed out as it stands right now.

[Cowology]

I'm a HUGE Livers fan. His game is a little different, but he's cut from that Afflalo/Battier mold of role player. Very few "rookie" mistakes and seems to always make the "right" play. All good teams want a player or two like that, even if they are limited in terms of skillset or athletic ability.

But probably not us. Bad timing and/or luck, but I expect this will be another one that develops for another team. Might be 8th or 9th man on most teams, but I expect him to have a career. Dude is solid.

[theBigLip]

Good posts from Spider and KPTN. A little patience and things will sort themselves out.

Also, I think Livers is going to surprise a lot of people on this board. IMHO, I think he’s closer to being a starter than he is being out of the rotation. Of course he must stay healthy this year.

Where does he fit though?

Bojan-Thompson
Stewart-Bagley
Harris

There's your forwards. The top 4 are going to get tons of minutes and I don't think they brought in Harris at that dollar figure to sit him at the end of the bench. Livers is out of the rotation as of now. Of course injuries happen all the time but we're looking at the roster as is and Livers has a Human Victory Cigar role as of now. Same with Hayes.
There was a clear path for those guys to get minutes even when the team was healthy the last few years. Not the case anymore.

They don't have to rush a trade and I'm sure some vets will be traded in season but that's what I see as of now. Young players that need minutes that will be squeezed out as it stands right now.

Agree that the roster is crowded. Bagley will likely sit instead of Livers. Bojan might get traded. I guess we will see. I just hope Livers can stay healthy. He has as much BB IQ as anyone on the team.

[NYPiston]

Agree that the roster is crowded. Bagley will likely sit instead of Livers. Bojan might get traded. I guess we will see. I just hope Livers can stay healthy. He has as much BB IQ as anyone on the team.

I liked Livers in his rookie season, last season was a step back for him so I'm a lot more unsure about his future in the NBA now on a good team.

Regardless, I don't see any way they sit Bagley. He's going to get big minutes IMO, might even start some games.
I can't see Bojan traded before the season starts, that will be more of a deadline move if it happens.

[vege]

Good posts from Spider and KPTN. A little patience and things will sort themselves out.

Also, I think Livers is going to surprise a lot of people on this board. IMHO, I think he’s closer to being a starter than he is being out of the rotation. Of course he must stay healthy this year.

Where does he fit though?

Bojan-Thompson
Stewart-Bagley
Harris

There's your forwards. The top 4 are going to get tons of minutes and I don't think they brought in Harris at that dollar figure to sit him at the end of the bench. Livers is out of the rotation as of now. Of course injuries happen all the time but we're looking at the roster as is and Livers has a Human Victory Cigar role as of now. Same with Hayes.
There was a clear path for those guys to get minutes even when the team was healthy the last few years. Not the case anymore.

They don't have to rush a trade and I'm sure some vets will be traded in season but that's what I see as of now. Young players that need minutes that will be squeezed out as it stands right now.

Agree that the roster is crowded. Bagley will likely sit instead of Livers. Bojan might get traded. I guess we will see. I just hope Livers can stay healthy. He has as much BB IQ as anyone on the team.

Bagley is a 5, not a forward. Especially on defense.

[bjones521]

Good posts from Spider and KPTN. A little patience and things will sort themselves out.

Also, I think Livers is going to surprise a lot of people on this board. IMHO, I think he’s closer to being a starter than he is being out of the rotation. Of course he must stay healthy this year.

Yes, according to JEIII Livers is 2nd in PF rotation and I could see him starting for us, I have 0 faith in Stew being good as our starting PF.

Livers need to stay healthy tho, he has missed way too many games during his young career (he missed more than 50% of the games so far).

FWIW Livers started 33% of his games for us and since he's been drafted we've been downgrading the PF position, so that % could improve imo.

I agree, i have zero faith in Beef stew being a PF. He'd be a great back up C. Also why cant Livers play PF?? This entire thread wanted Cam and they the same size. Outside of Zion, Towns and Giannis Livers can guard any PF we throw at him. My dream lineup involves Thompson and Livers. 2 above avg wing defenders to allow Cade and Ivey to focus on offense. I just hope Thompson can shoot.

Cade
Ivey
Thompson
Livers
Duren

[edmunder_prc]

I'm a HUGE Livers fan. His game is a little different, but he's cut from that Afflalo/Battier mold of role player. Very few "rookie" mistakes and seems to always make the "right" play. All good teams want a player or two like that, even if they are limited in terms of skillset or athletic ability.

But probably not us. Bad timing and/or luck, but I expect this will be another one that develops for another team. Might be 8th or 9th man on most teams, but I expect him to have a career. Dude is solid.

Livers is excellent in theory but never puts it together. He's a poor man's glue guy and that just doesnt work, even on a team looking for reliable guys that can shoot, defend, rebound a little, pass some. He should fit great but he is invisible and doesnt shoot well enough to make up for it.

We have a whole team of guys who would be awesome if they ever learned to shoot well: Stewart, Livers, Hayes, Ausar, Cade, Ivey, Bagley, Wiseman.

[Spider156]

I'm a HUGE Livers fan. His game is a little different, but he's cut from that Afflalo/Battier mold of role player. Very few "rookie" mistakes and seems to always make the "right" play. All good teams want a player or two like that, even if they are limited in terms of skillset or athletic ability.

But probably not us. Bad timing and/or luck, but I expect this will be another one that develops for another team. Might be 8th or 9th man on most teams, but I expect him to have a career. Dude is solid.

Livers is excellent in theory but never puts it together. He's a poor man's glue guy and that just doesnt work, even on a team looking for reliable guys that can shoot, defend, rebound a little, pass some. He should fit great but he is invisible and doesnt shoot well enough to make up for it.

We have a whole team of guys who would be awesome if they ever learned to shoot well: Stewart, Livers, Hayes, Ausar, Cade, Ivey, Bagley, Wiseman.

Livers has an above average shooting from 3 and Ivey has a league average % shooting from 3. I don’t understand why people involve him in conversations about not shooting the ball well. Livers averages 38% from 3, Ivey 35%. They should not be involved in this conversation.

To put it in perspective, Kobe Bryant shot 33% career 3 pt shooting. Does that make him a poor shooter? We know Stewart shoots 33% from 3 and Cade 32%. Why does it make them poor shooters? It makes no sense to call Kobe a good shooter then.

Michael Jordan shot 33% from 3 career.

Lebron James shot 34.5% from 3 for career. Does that means Lebron James is the better shooter? Of course it does but he doesn’t get that respect.

[Crymson]

Bagley is a 5, not a forward. Especially on defense.

Are you being serious? Bagley is an absolute disaster as a defender at center. He's certainly bad as a perimeter defender as well, but his defense reaches a new level of awful when he's playing center.

He's a center on offense right now because he can't shoot.

[tmorgan]

I’m so tired of talking about Marvin Bagley.

When physical talent and mental weakness produce a frustrating player to watch. We’ve been through this before — fairly recently, cough — and the torture never ends.