Pre-Season #1 - Pistons-Suns (3pm ET)

[Canadafan]

Our starting five should be

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Bojan
Duren

If we’re trying to win. Everyone else is bench players. We need to trade a big. One of Wiseman/Bagley need to go. Whoever stays plays with Stew off the bench.

Agreed. Or because Ausar is so young it would be glorious if we could trade one of Wiseman/Bagley along with Joe Harris and one of Burks/Hayes to find that elusive starting forward we so desperately need. Oh to dream though lol. But your idea is true. Just go with our young 4 starters and Bojan. If Klay can start at PF for Warriors then our boy Bojan can handle it too. And hopefully Harris provides us something backing up our rookie
Wiseman Livers Hayes and Sasser make pretty nice 3rd stringers for now

Edit-i still think Philly could use the depth and if Harris shows something we could do my aforementioned deal to get Tobias. He just fits us better and gets them 3 guys for depth.

Duren Bagley
Tobias Stew
Bojan Ausar
Ivey Burks
Cade Morris

I'm sure they'd do it if we switched out Hartis for Bojan. Oh well

[zeebneeb]

Our starting five should be

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Bojan
Duren

If we’re trying to win. Everyone else is bench players. We need to trade a big. One of Wiseman/Bagley need to go. Whoever stays plays with Stew off the bench.

You know, there is something interesting about Stewart. The whole league knows the Pistons are trying to turn him into a PF, yeah? Well, there are a bunch of teams that want him, and see him as a small ball 5. This was born out when it was reported that teams were calling about his availability. He is a wanted asset.

I'm starting to wonder if Stewart, who is now locked up on a reasonable contract, is going to be the guy going out in a trade for a PF, that will fit next to Duren, to a team that wants to use him as a center.

Just something I'm thinking about. It doesn't have to be for a PF, but in a three-team deal, that's how it could work out.

I'm not really going to advocate for anything until we all start seeing how this is going to shake out, but a pretty good idea of how things will work will start becoming apparent around game 20.

Can Ivey work next to Cade? Can Stewart work next to Duren? Can Ausar work in the starting lineup long-term? Talent is there, but the fit may not work.

[flow]

zack lowe said on his podcast he doesnt understand why the Pistons gave Beef Stew that money when we coulda gave it to Miles Bridges or PJ Washington. I say we should trade for one of them

Beef Stew's contract will age well as the cap goes up, even if he ends up being a bench big. In reality it's also only 3 years given the 4th year is a TO.

If we gave any form of money to Miles Bridges I, and many other fans I suspect, would stop following this team.

But the next 4 seasons are guaranteed because the new contract doesn't start until a year from now.

.

[Invictus88]

I still don't understand why Monty didn't play Cade and Ivey together in the first game. Just makes no sense if that's the duo they're starting the season with.

Sure it does.

Make Ivey earn it. Make him play defense to get it.

The only reason it looks awkward is because we had literally no one else was passable as a starting 2 heading into the first preseason game. (And yes, I am saying Burks isn't passable)

But it's better for Ivey's growth if it forces him to improve on that side of the ball. He was handed his starting minutes last year.

[Invictus88]

Our starting five should be

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Bojan
Duren

If we’re trying to win. Everyone else is bench players. We need to trade a big. One of Wiseman/Bagley need to go. Whoever stays plays with Stew off the bench.

You know, there is something interesting about Stewart. The whole league knows the Pistons are trying to turn him into a PF, yeah? Well, there are a bunch of teams that want him, and see him as a small ball 5. This was born out when it was reported that teams were calling about his availability. He is a wanted asset.

I'm starting to wonder if Stewart, who is now locked up on a reasonable contract, is going to be the guy going out in a trade for a PF, that will fit next to Duren, to a team that wants to use him as a center.

Just something I'm thinking about. It doesn't have to be for a PF, but in a three-team deal, that's how it could work out.

I'm not really going to advocate for anything until we all start seeing how this is going to shake out, but a pretty good idea of how things will work will start becoming apparent around game 20.

Can Ivey work next to Cade? Can Stewart work next to Duren? Can Ausar work in the starting lineup long-term? Talent is there, but the fit may not work.

We should ship Stewart out now while there are still teams out there with the illusion that he will work as a stretch big.

We likely won't do this unless an extraordinary opportunity for a 4 presents itself which won't happen.

20 games in the cat will likely be out of the bag.

[NYPiston]

Sure it does.

Make Ivey earn it. Make him play defense to get it.

The only reason it looks awkward is because we had literally no one else was passable as a starting 2 heading into the first preseason game. (And yes, I am saying Burks isn't passable)

But it's better for Ivey's growth if it forces him to improve on that side of the ball. He was handed his starting minutes last year.

How can he "earn it" if he's not getting the opportunity?

Cade and Ivey is supposedly their future backcourt. They unfortunately lost an opportunity last season to see if it works and Ivey is not going to be a 6th man long term unless something went wrong, so Cade-Ivey need as many reps as possible to gain chemistry and that should start right now in preseason. Playing Ivey in a role he's not going to be in is a waste of time and playing Burks alongside Cade is an even bigger waste of time.

[MortSahlfan]

Monty on Bagley: “Changed the game. He came in and played with a great deal of force … defensively I thought he did a much better job calling out screening actions, which helped our guards out.” Said guys like that will be rewarded, because the Pistons need to defend and compete

[Invictus88]

Sure it does.

Make Ivey earn it. Make him play defense to get it.

The only reason it looks awkward is because we had literally no one else was passable as a starting 2 heading into the first preseason game. (And yes, I am saying Burks isn't passable)

But it's better for Ivey's growth if it forces him to improve on that side of the ball. He was handed his starting minutes last year.

How can he "earn it" if he's not getting the opportunity?

Cade and Ivey is supposedly their future backcourt. They unfortunately lost an opportunity last season to see if it works and Ivey is not going to be a 6th man long term unless something went wrong, so Cade-Ivey need as many reps as possible to gain chemistry and that should start right now in preseason. Playing Ivey in a role he's not going to be in is a waste of time and playing Burks alongside Cade is an even bigger waste of time.

You can demonstrate you are willing to put effort in and improve on the defensive end in any minutes you get. They need not be starters minutes. He had 23 minutes of opportunity in the first preseason game.

If he doesn't feel the need / learn to play defense then it truly doesn't matter if he is paired with Cade because the team will be terrible.

He had a year of opportunity to motivate himself to play defense last year and he didn't do it on his own.

We will have to agree to disagree on the rest.

[Cowology]

Our starting five should be

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Bojan
Duren

If we’re trying to win. Everyone else is bench players. We need to trade a big. One of Wiseman/Bagley need to go. Whoever stays plays with Stew off the bench.

I'm fine with this.

[Cowology]

I still don't understand why Monty didn't play Cade and Ivey together in the first game. Just makes no sense if that's the duo they're starting the season with.

With Bogey being replaced in the starting lineup by Ausar there was a serious need for another shooter out there. And Ivey gets to have the ball in his hands more with the 2nd unit. It's a single pre-season game - wouldn't read too much into it.

[Spider156]

Our starting five should be

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Bojan
Duren

If we’re trying to win. Everyone else is bench players. We need to trade a big. One of Wiseman/Bagley need to go. Whoever stays plays with Stew off the bench.

You know, there is something interesting about Stewart. The whole league knows the Pistons are trying to turn him into a PF, yeah? Well, there are a bunch of teams that want him, and see him as a small ball 5. This was born out when it was reported that teams were calling about his availability. He is a wanted asset.

I'm starting to wonder if Stewart, who is now locked up on a reasonable contract, is going to be the guy going out in a trade for a PF, that will fit next to Duren, to a team that wants to use him as a center.

Just something I'm thinking about. It doesn't have to be for a PF, but in a three-team deal, that's how it could work out.

I'm not really going to advocate for anything until we all start seeing how this is going to shake out, but a pretty good idea of how things will work will start becoming apparent around game 20.

Can Ivey work next to Cade? Can Stewart work next to Duren? Can Ausar work in the starting lineup long-term? Talent is there, but the fit may not work.

So apparently Bojan was going to start at SF and Ausar at SG. So Ivey was planned to be the Sixth man regardless of Bojan's injury. Stewart is starting at PF I take it because of his defense. I'm sorry but I have to say I don't see it. Also before the season starts or even preseason, I think Stewart shoots at best ~32% from 3 which is good if he had the defense people talk about which I don't see. I agree he could be a really good small ball center and his contract is perfect off the bench, I imagine Celtics, Warriors Lakers would be all over that. I've said this before, Lakers are a great trade partner with the Pistons. We want Rui and Vanderbilt, yes we do, they're not overrated. They're paid fairly and are playing alongside Lebron who has made countless careers for players. I imagine Cade is able to have Lebron's passing but not his finishing and defense of course but I think Cade has that passing ability. Capability is different cuz lebron is other worldly in terms of capability. My point is Rui would be great for Stewart or Bojan. I can see Bojan getting trade there because of his offense. I see this trade happening at the trade deadline for one of them. I personally see the potential for Stewart basically like Tucker. He just needs the reps and he'll get there in my opinion. I'd give him more time, he could be great to be honest. I just don't see it yet. The questions are is Stewart good enough defending PF? My opinion, no, that's why Monty said Duren has to guard PFs too and it's just part of the game now. Can stewart start at PF? I don't think so, not yet in his career. Not reason to trade him, but I'd rather have Rui right now. I'll tell you now the best players for us to get are Siakam, Zion, KAT. We're not ready yet but we could be by the trade deadline.

[Crymson]

Biggest thing for me is we still need a 4, and it seems like the organization is content with drafting that player in 2024. It’s mind boggling that we don’t have a single stretch 4 prospect besides 25 year old Livers. Stewart does not need to be out there guarding 4s each possession with all that bulk on him.

FWIW "stretch 4" is not really a thing anymore. All power forwards have to shoot.

Not just PFs, basically everyone needs to shoot, especially if you’re a playoff team. It’s pretty embarrassing when the other team leaves a non shooter open at the 3 point line all night, at least until they brick a few and get pulled.

I'm aware. "Stretch four" was a term for back when many power forwards were basically smaller centers and couldn't space the floor at all.

Monty on Bagley: “Changed the game. He came in and played with a great deal of force … defensively I thought he did a much better job calling out screening actions, which helped our guards out.” Said guys like that will be rewarded, because the Pistons need to defend and compete

He really showed that he's capable of stomping all over end-of-bench lineups in which he's guarded and being guarded by the likes of Bol Bol and sometimes the opposition isn't fielding a center at all.

[Mr Peanut]

zack lowe said on his podcast he doesnt understand why the Pistons gave Beef Stew that money when we coulda gave it to Miles Bridges or PJ Washington. I say we should trade for one of them

Beef Stew's contract will age well as the cap goes up, even if he ends up being a bench big. In reality it's also only 3 years given the 4th year is a TO.

If we gave any form of money to Miles Bridges I, and many other fans I suspect, would stop following this team.

But the next 4 seasons are guaranteed because the new contract doesn't start until a year from now.

.

Yeah but the upcoming season is only just over 5M. My comment is more to the fact that people think we committed a full extra 4 years at big money which isn't necessarily true.

[NYPiston]

You can demonstrate you are willing to put effort in and improve on the defensive end in any minutes you get. They need not be starters minutes. He had 23 minutes of opportunity in the first preseason game.

If he doesn't feel the need / learn to play defense then it truly doesn't matter if he is paired with Cade because the team will be terrible.

He had a year of opportunity to motivate himself to play defense last year and he didn't do it on his own.

We will have to agree to disagree on the rest.

One of the biggest issues with Cade being out most of last season was losing that time to develop chemistry with Ivey to see if they could be a backcourt tandem going forward, do you agree?

If so, don't you think it's important that they use every opportunity to build that chemistry before the real games begin?
Unless Monty is really considering playing Ivey as a 6th man sparkplug off the bench and Burks as the starter alongside Cade, this is a waste of time. There's not a lot of preseason games in the NBA, every game is important especially for a young team with no proven chemistry. If we don't see a heavy dose of Cade/Ivey in the next game, I'll be utterly confused, and this is coming from somebody that is skeptical of the fit between the two.

[Invictus88]

You can demonstrate you are willing to put effort in and improve on the defensive end in any minutes you get. They need not be starters minutes. He had 23 minutes of opportunity in the first preseason game.

If he doesn't feel the need / learn to play defense then it truly doesn't matter if he is paired with Cade because the team will be terrible.

He had a year of opportunity to motivate himself to play defense last year and he didn't do it on his own.

We will have to agree to disagree on the rest.

One of the biggest issues with Cade being out most of last season was losing that time to develop chemistry with Ivey to see if they could be a backcourt tandem going forward, do you agree?

If so, don't you think it's important that they use every opportunity to build that chemistry before the real games begin?
Unless Monty is really considering playing Ivey as a 6th man sparkplug off the bench and Burks as the starter alongside Cade, this is a waste of time. There's not a lot of preseason games in the NBA, every game is important especially for a young team with no proven chemistry. If we don't see a heavy dose of Cade/Ivey in the next game, I'll be utterly confused, and this is coming from somebody that is skeptical of the fit between the two.

Ivey's lack of defense last year is far more concerning. Preseason is a time for instruction. Learning to defend falls into that.

Ivey showed last year that he could do well when he wasn't the primary ball-handler; so I don't see where the depth of your concerns come from.

As far as specific fit with Cade they have all season to figure it out. This isn't a problem that needs to be solved completely now. Monty has even stated already it will likely be well into thecseason before lineups are finally settled.

[NYPiston]

Ivey's lack of defense last year is far more concerning. Preseason is a time for instruction. Learning to defend falls into that.

Ivey showed last year that he could do well when he wasn't the primary ball-handler; so I don't see where the depth of your concerns come from.

As far as specific fit with Cade they have all season to figure it out. This isn't a problem that needs to be solved completely now. Monty has even stated already it will likely be well into thecseason before lineups are finally settled.

The defense IS concerning and I would agree that he needs to learn better defensive habits but I don't see why he can't try to learn that while also building chemistry with Cade. I don't like the idea of going into the season without them having played a live game together in over a year and learning on the fly in season. The preseason should be the time to work those kinks out and be more ready for the season opener, they lost a whole year of experimenting with it.

In any event, I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about it from now on over one preseason game but if this continues to happen in the next game and going late into preseason, I'll start to wonder if Ivey will indeed start the season coming off the bench because it would be a waste of time otherwise.

Also, Ivey did better as a primary ballhandler last season. Part of that could be due to him having a better feel for the NBA game in the second half of the season but part of that could also be that he's better as a primary ballhandler which illustrates one of my concerns about the Cade/Ivey fit with Cade being the court general/primary ballhandler most of the time.

[Cowology]

Also, Ivey did better as a primary ballhandler last season. Part of that could be due to him having a better feel for the NBA game in the second half of the season but part of that could also be that he's better as a primary ballhandler which illustrates one of my concerns about the Cade/Ivey fit with Cade being the court general/primary ballhandler most of the time.

This is interesting to me. I've been fairly adamant in my belief that Cade should be more of a Wade/Kobe type. He has the ability to go out and get you 7-8 apg, but if he starts looking to score 30 ppg the offense is going to absolutely open up for everybody else. He should really be thinking score 1st.

In a perfect world Ivey is the PG. He's pushing the ball in transition, probing the defense for weakness and early offensive opportunities. Then you run your half-court offense through Cade. He's the #1 option, but unselfish enough that he's able to keep others involved.

At least that is how my brain is envisioning it. I'm often disappointed by reality.

[breezypeezy]

I hope the former coach of the year is up to the task because these guys are just awful currently.

[NYPiston]

This is interesting to me. I've been fairly adamant in my belief that Cade should be more of a Wade/Kobe type. He has the ability to go out and get you 7-8 apg, but if he starts looking to score 30 ppg the offense is going to absolutely open up for everybody else. He should really be thinking score 1st.

In a perfect world Ivey is the PG. He's pushing the ball in transition, probing the defense for weakness and early offensive opportunities. Then you run your half-court offense through Cade. He's the #1 option, but unselfish enough that he's able to keep others involved.

At least that is how my brain is envisioning it. I'm often disappointed by reality.

I don't see Wade/Kobe type at all when I see Cade, he's like the exact opposite of those guys lol. He'll never have a score first mentality like those guys did or be in constant attack mode stressing defenses with athleticism, that's not Cade.

Cade is a cerebral floor general/primary ballhandler who also likes to score. I guess you can say sort of like Billups. I don't envision any scenario where Ivey is the primary ballhandler on this team and Cade playing off ball, we'll see that at times but the ball will most times be in Cade's hands with him being the primary decision maker. I could see Ivey pushing the ball in transition a lot so I agree with you there.

I don't know, I constantly envision issues with those two co-existing because I think both are better with the ball in their hands.
It just makes me wonder if Mathurin or Sharpe would have been better fits. I think Murray would have certainly been a better fit. Not saying better players than Ivey, just better fits alongside Cade.

[mattao313]

This is interesting to me. I've been fairly adamant in my belief that Cade should be more of a Wade/Kobe type. He has the ability to go out and get you 7-8 apg, but if he starts looking to score 30 ppg the offense is going to absolutely open up for everybody else. He should really be thinking score 1st.

In a perfect world Ivey is the PG. He's pushing the ball in transition, probing the defense for weakness and early offensive opportunities. Then you run your half-court offense through Cade. He's the #1 option, but unselfish enough that he's able to keep others involved.

At least that is how my brain is envisioning it. I'm often disappointed by reality.

I don't see Wade/Kobe type at all when I see Cade, he's like the exact opposite of those guys lol. He'll never have a score first mentality like those guys did or be in constant attack mode stressing defenses with athleticism, that's not Cade.

Cade is a cerebral floor general/primary ballhandler who also likes to score. I guess you can say sort of like Billups. I don't envision any scenario where Ivey is the primary ballhandler on this team and Cade playing off ball, we'll see that at times but the ball will most times be in Cade's hands with him being the primary decision maker. I could see Ivey pushing the ball in transition a lot so I agree with you there.

I don't know, I constantly envision issues with those two co-existing because I think both are better with the ball in their hands.
It just makes me wonder if Mathurin or Sharpe would have been better fits. I think Murray would have certainly been a better fit. Not saying better players than Ivey, just better fits alongside Cade.

I actually agree with cow I think he's more of a traditional 2 guard I honestly would like to see him be a score first type as I don't think his handle is tight enough to but a PG.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app