Teachable or Talent?

[King Bugs]

Do any of y'all share these observations or have any notes to add? Anything else stand out to you that would qualify as "bad habits" we could theoretically just internally improve at without necessarily getting more talented?

I don't think so, it just seems like the Pistons are simply in the middle of a failed rebuild. We got fans hoping for 35 year old Bojan to come back and save us. We're so incredibly cooked.

I've honestly lost confidence in Cade Cunningham, I'm not sure we should continue wasting seasons trying to build around him. Monty Williams is not the right coach for this team, he owes Chris Paul half of his paycheck for making him look good in Phoenix.

But fortunately we're not in cap hell so we can use the tradable young players we have and future picks to pivot out of this disaster if it comes down to that.

[Kalamazoo317]

Do any of y'all share these observations or have any notes to add? Anything else stand out to you that would qualify as "bad habits" we could theoretically just internally improve at without necessarily getting more talented?

I don't think so, it just seems like the Pistons are simply in the middle of a failed rebuild. We got fans hoping for 35 year old Bojan to come back and save us. We're so incredibly cooked.

I've honestly lost confidence in Cade Cunningham, I'm not sure we should continue wasting seasons trying to build around him. Monty Williams is not the right coach for this team, he owes Chris Paul half of his paycheck for making him look good in Phoenix.

But fortunately we're not in cap hell so we can use the tradable young players we have and future picks to pivot out of this disaster if it comes down to that.

I'm not sure you're making a cohesive point here other than just being negative (which I get, it's just not terribly productive).

If you think Monty's the wrong coach for the team, the subtext is that a better fit at coach could get more out of the team. So that implies there are some habits we could improve on under the right coaching and that Cade could still be part of a successful team. If neither of those things are true, what difference does the coaching make?

[Absolutia]

I agree with all the points that have been made in the OP. All of those issues will of course could be - if not created by - then certainly compounded by a confidence issue. These young players look dispirited.

I don't think we have a bad roster and we shouldn't be performing like this. We do have to rememeber that the Toronto game was just one game, but there is no denying that we are in a crisis.

You reminded me of one I thought of and forgot from last night: Hesitating on open jumpers. The offense isn't going to look crisp if our shooters aren't confident in their shots. The window for "open" shots in the NBA closes fast and I can understand occasionally wanting to pump fake and put it on the floor, but we just do too much of that. We need our shooters to be confident enough to let it fly over outstretched arms of closing defenders. It seems like we often only want to even take outside shots when we're wide wide open (and brick the majority of those anyway) while on the other side opposing players are nailing shots with defenders right on them. It's frustrating, but I think not having the confidence to just let it fly is a big part of it.

It's this hesitation that illustrates the team's lack of confidence. It can be observed in our lack of off-ball movement too. When a player is confident, they just act. When they aren't, they think and hesitate.

What they need to do is act with abandon and back their actions right or wrong. Then learn from their mistakes.

[King Bugs]

I'm not sure you're making a cohesive point here other than just being negative (which I get, it's just not terribly productive).

If you think Monty's the wrong coach for the team, the subtext is that a better fit at coach could get more out of the team. So that implies there are some habits we could improve on under the right coaching and that Cade could still be part of a successful team. If neither of those things are true, what difference does the coaching make?

Nah, I highlighted what I was replying to and answered it in the first sentence. The rebuild is looking like a flop and I don't particularly believe in (most of) this roster anymore, we don't need "better habits" we need better talent, that was the point. The rest was unrelated venting, I'll admit.

Perhaps another coach could get more out of this team, but then where is that coach? It's been 15 years. We've had new coaches, old coaches, experienced coaches, average coaches, mediocre coaches, overpaid coaches, clueless coaches, former coaches of the year, coaches that have been to the Finals.... and the results are always the same. So maybe you're right, the coaching might not make a difference... Maybe the players just aren't good enough.

[whitehops]

As an outsider looking in, I think 2 things are true of this situation. This roster is not suited for Cade's skillsets at all but Cade himself is also miscast as a heliocentric type player/franchise leading player.

Instead of getting players who solely compliment Cade, you get players who can be on ball threats themselves or just players who have a good feel for the game period.

You guys know way more than me though so I'll defer to yall.

it's always tough with any kind of "heliocentric" player because if you want to run any kind of action and you ask yourself, "who is the best player to put in this scenario?", the answer is pretty much always cade. that doesn't mean he's one of the most talented players in the league but he's by far the best option the pistons have in any given scenario. in cade's 3 seasons the pistons have tried having other players initiate the offense and it's always looked better when cade is in control.

[Kalamazoo317]

Cade has played one season plus a few games at this point. So I wouldn't draw strong conclusions based on that sample size. If anything, the Denver game (and a few others) suggested to me that we should have a lot of other players initiate the offense and then move things to Cade as the defense allows.