Over 20% into Monty’s first year how do you rate his performance?

[theBigLip]

Terrible! Can't give a guy credit for starting Hayes and not even attempting to start a line up without Stewart.

Monte Morris should have been our serviceable starting PG. Who else on this team is even close to a PF? Bagley? Ausar? Bojan? I'd peg that more on Troy Weaver, who's big on having wings where PGs and PFs should be. Positionless basketball only works when you have some unicorns in the mix, and we don't have that.

I think putting Livers in was a good move, but should have moved Ausar to PF until Bojan returns, Stewart to Backup C/PF, Bagley/Wiseman to inactive. Leave Ivey in over Hayes.

Makes sense to me.

[theBigLip]

Monty is not going to be fired anytime soon, but he is garbage. I have no issue on how he handled Ivey, Ivey should be in the GLeague. He is trash and does not deserve any playing time. He need to learn the basics about defense and he need to start giving a **** on defense.

Weaver and Tellem are the issue and they need to go.

I like how we say this only about Ivey when the entire team is trash on defense. They can’t stop anyone with or without Ivey. Cade gets lit up constantly, Killian gets lit up, Burks, etc. At least Ivey can put the ball in the hoop at an above league-worst rate unlike the other guards on this team. Yet somehow it’s only Ivey that gets singled out on defense. It wasn’t Ivey get lit up by Brunson last night. Dude had like 20 points before he ever got in the game.

And let’s be real, this coach doesn’t care about defense. He just benched the best defender on the team by a wide margin. The only guy who is truly a plus defender. Monty just likes being erratic and playing mind games. We saw it in Phoenix and we’re seeing it here.

There are different levels of bad. Ivey is in the bottom 3% of the league as a defender. There is no defense to that. He is bad. He should be in the GLeague and watching film, not in a NBA court.

Not true according to NBA stats.

[keepitrealhomes]

Bad, but his seat is definitely not hot. He’s still figuring out what works with this roster, but he seems to get in his own way…a lot

[Kalamazoo317]

I wish he’d try Stew as the back up 5 with Livers and another spacer starting in the front court (Umude, Knox, Burks), and Ivey starting next to Cade. Or even Cade at the 3 with Hayes/Sasser and Ivey in the backcourt and Livers and Duren up front. We suck on both sides of the ball. If we’re going to give Cade huge minutes and usage, make his success the top priority and maximize space.

[vege]

I like how we say this only about Ivey when the entire team is trash on defense. They can’t stop anyone with or without Ivey. Cade gets lit up constantly, Killian gets lit up, Burks, etc. At least Ivey can put the ball in the hoop at an above league-worst rate unlike the other guards on this team. Yet somehow it’s only Ivey that gets singled out on defense. It wasn’t Ivey get lit up by Brunson last night. Dude had like 20 points before he ever got in the game.

And let’s be real, this coach doesn’t care about defense. He just benched the best defender on the team by a wide margin. The only guy who is truly a plus defender. Monty just likes being erratic and playing mind games. We saw it in Phoenix and we’re seeing it here.

There are different levels of bad. Ivey is in the bottom 3% of the league as a defender. There is no defense to that. He is bad. He should be in the GLeague and watching film, not in a NBA court.

Not true according to NBA stats.

Which stats exactly? If you are going to call something a lie show the proof please.

[theBigLip]

There are different levels of bad. Ivey is in the bottom 3% of the league as a defender. There is no defense to that. He is bad. He should be in the GLeague and watching film, not in a NBA court.

Not true according to NBA stats.

Which stats exactly? If you are going to call something a lie show the proof please.

Why is the burden of proof on me? Is anything you say the truth automatically until disproved? That’s pretty convenient

You are the one saying he’s in the bottom 3%. Why don’t you prove it? He’s not even bottom 3% on the Pistons.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612765&dir=-1&sort=DEF_RATING

[Kalamazoo317]

Not true according to NBA stats.

Which stats exactly? If you are going to call something a lie show the proof please.

Why is the burden of proof on me? Is anything you say the truth automatically until disproved? That’s pretty convenient

You are the one saying he’s in the bottom 3%. Why don’t you prove it? He’s not even bottom 3% on the Pistons.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612765&dir=-1&sort=DEF_RATING

To be fair as an impartial third party here, you said "according to stats" in your post and he asked which stats, which seems fairly reasonable? It's not like you said "he doesn't look like it to me" or something.

[vege]

Not true according to NBA stats.

Which stats exactly? If you are going to call something a lie show the proof please.

Why is the burden of proof on me? Is anything you say the truth automatically until disproved? That’s pretty convenient

You are the one saying he’s in the bottom 3%. Why don’t you prove it? He’s not even bottom 3% on the Pistons.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612765&dir=-1&sort=DEF_RATING

Defensive Rating is only 1 stat, it doesn't show much at all. I have posted before why Ivey is at the bottom 3% of the league as a defender, and that's based on several advanced stats (all of them are better stats and Defensive Rating FWIW), not just one.

https://craftednba.com/players/jaden-ivey

[breezypeezy]

Does he have any interest in being competitive?
He as the leader should have a little more fire imo.
I prefer the Dan Campbell mode that goes for it on 4th down, goes for 2 on the xtra points and appears perfectly willing to chew your kneecaps off to get where he wants to go, Ive seen none of this fight in Monty thus far.

Eta: I voted a very generous "Average" thus far because its too early to fire him with a contract that big. But he needs to step up his game in an almost biblical fashion, this has been unacceptable by any measurement.

He needs to set the tone and light the fire under this roster of deadbeats, some fistfights in practice would be an excellent start.
Btw, thats exactly what Isiah and Laimbeer have said happened during some of those hard competitive practices that transformed them into Champions.
Coddling is for the weak, that is not Detroit anything.

[ComboGuardCity]

Yahoo posted an article with a quote from Ivey saying Monty never told him he was coming off the bench to start the year.

That’s inexcusable and to me a sign of a poor leader. You have 15 guys on the team. Take 2 days and talk to each of them for 45-1hr about how you envision the season and how they envision theirs. Little snippets like that make me feel like Monty is phoning it in. Maybe he’s heard the big buzz word of the last few years and he’s “quiet quitting” lol.

[theBigLip]

Which stats exactly? If you are going to call something a lie show the proof please.

Why is the burden of proof on me? Is anything you say the truth automatically until disproved? That’s pretty convenient

You are the one saying he’s in the bottom 3%. Why don’t you prove it? He’s not even bottom 3% on the Pistons.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612765&dir=-1&sort=DEF_RATING

Defensive Rating is only 1 stat, it doesn't show much at all. I have posted before why Ivey is at the bottom 3% of the league as a defender, and that's based on several advanced stats (all of them are better stats and Defensive Rating FWIW), not just one.

https://craftednba.com/players/jaden-ivey

At least you have some model that says 3%. Now we can get into a pissing match on the pros and cons of each model. But in reading about the model you presented, they clearly state that it is “An aggregate of many different plus minus metrics.” Which means he is likely dragged down by the overall lack of D on the team.

Bottom line, I’m not saying Ivey isn’t great at D, but there is no way he is bottom 3%. 10-15% of the league is made up of 2nd rounders and undrafted free agents that never even make it on the floor. I don’t see how most of them are better than Ivey.

[vege]

Why is the burden of proof on me? Is anything you say the truth automatically until disproved? That’s pretty convenient

You are the one saying he’s in the bottom 3%. Why don’t you prove it? He’s not even bottom 3% on the Pistons.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612765&dir=-1&sort=DEF_RATING

Defensive Rating is only 1 stat, it doesn't show much at all. I have posted before why Ivey is at the bottom 3% of the league as a defender, and that's based on several advanced stats (all of them are better stats and Defensive Rating FWIW), not just one.

https://craftednba.com/players/jaden-ivey

At least you have some model that says 3%. Now we can get into a pissing match on the pros and cons of each model. But in reading about the model you presented, they clearly state that it is “An aggregate of many different plus minus metrics.” Which means he is likely dragged down by the overall lack of D on the team.

Bottom line, I’m not saying Ivey isn’t great at D, but there is no way he is bottom 3%. 10-15% of the league is made up of 2nd rounders and undrafted free agents that never even make it on the floor. I don’t see how most of them are better than Ivey.

I've been telling you he is actually that bad on defense, since last season, but you refuse to believe it.

Last season we did not have access to all this metrics, now we have the advanced metrics and the coaching staff saying he is umplayable bad on defense and you and most of the fans still refuse to believe it, and you guys think it's something personal against Ivey.

His offense is better than expected, his TS is off the charts, he improved a lot at finishing around the rim, his 3 ball is legit, and once he reduces his TOs, and he will, he will be a very good offensive player.

But the game is played on both sides of the floor.

[Cowology]

I definitely think it's too early. For as much criticism as he's taken for benching Ivey, I will be real curious to see how that plays out over time. Sometimes guys need tough love and Ivey may be better off for it and thank Monty down the line. Or not.

The result sucks in terms of measuring Wins/Losses but this team wasn't ever going to jump into the playoff stratosphere. It's more about player development and establishing a foundation. Part of that is building team identity and hopefully role clarity. But it's super early and it's all new. Nobody even knows what they are doing, let alone what their teammates are doing, which results in a lot of misreads/miscommunication and bad t/o's.

Monty is still figuring it out too. He needs to play with the pieces.

I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm assuming he's better at this than me. Eventually I'll need some sort of evidence to support that theory, but for now I'm still trusting that he has a vision & plan for where he wants this team to go.

Losing sucks. It's hard and we look bad. But it makes zero sense to leave guys in their comfort zones. Keep shooting the bad 3. Keep pushing the tempo and forcing bad passes. Make the goddam mistakes. You can't play afraid or worry about it going in.

I have some issues with Weaver, but I feel pretty firmly that Monty should have a long leash. For now.

[Kalamazoo317]

That video breakdown with the screamy guy was rough. Some really poor defensive fundamentals from the young guys in general

[thesack12]

Was never a fan of of the Dwane Casey hire, and wanted him gone like 4 years ago.

During last summer's coaching search, I was vocal about wanting no part of Monty Williams.

The funny thing is, despite giving Williams a egregious contract, the absolute best you can say about the coaching is it was a sideways move. And honestly, that is being pretty dang generous to Monty and disrespectful to Casey.

The record sucks, the offense sucks, the defense sucks, the player development sucks, the rotations suck, the general demeanor of the team sucks.

Monty Williams is 192-255 without Chris Paul, and 180-94 with Chris Paul. Monty Williams owes his entire coaching "pedigree" (if you want to say he has one) to Chris Paul. Monty should give CP3 at least half of his contract. Chris Paul was basically a coach on the floor under Williams.

I was always amused with the lazy, short sighted takes like "Its not my money" when Monty was hired. One of the biggest problems with giving him that ridiculous, thoroughly undeserved contract, is if it went bad (which it predictably has) Detroit is likely stuck with him for a minimum of 3 years.

You would have thought they were trying to coax Phil Jackson out of retirement considering their desperation to up their offer several times after being told the candidate wasn't interested. But nah, they did that for Monty freakin Williams.

All that said, I don't blame Monty at all. He never wanted to be here, and it sure looks like he still doesn't. Its not his fault somebody threw up all over themselves to hire him and lit a mountain of money on fire to be able to do so.

[bstein14]

Ausar has been increible at time with his man to man defense, but you certainly still see lots of mistakes when it comes to team defense and where to step up and where to stay back. He's still solid for a rookie, but you have to hope that the coaching staff is trying to instill in him and the other guys how to properly defend as a team because we have the young legs and athleticism of a team that should at worst be middle of the road on defense and we're way below that.