Game 41: Pistons vs Timberwolves 7PM EST

[mattao313]

Ivey played incredibly well tonight. Played hard on D. Created for teammates. Hit a bunch of shots. Great explosive drives.... and a +8 in 36 minutes.

He was great on offense, but he was a disaster on defense. He got lost several times on switches and rotations leading to several open 3's.

He was still a positive tho, because he was a beast offensively. He did play hard on D but sadly he was still very bad there. He need to learn and improve on that side of the ball, if he does he will be great.

He was not a disaster he was good on defense he even had a couple possessions totally locking up Edwards.

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[DBC10]

Ivey played incredibly well tonight. Played hard on D. Created for teammates. Hit a bunch of shots. Great explosive drives.... and a +8 in 36 minutes.

He was great on offense, but he was a disaster on defense. He got lost several times on switches and rotations leading to several open 3's.

He was still a positive tho, because he was a beast offensively. He did play hard on D but sadly he was still very bad there. He need to learn and improve on that side of the ball, if he does he will be great.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3M&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022300569&PlayerID=0&RangeType=0&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612750&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

Rewatch their 15 made threes. If anything Sasser went under a pick and roll on Conley once and I feel like our bigs we too slow getting back to KAT but nothing with Ivey at all. Ivey's guy had two made threes out of the 15 one he recovered great but McDaniels drained one in his face and on another he was a bit slow/late getting back to Edwards. Monty actually said he was most proud of Ivey's defense this game.

Man brought receipts

The only glaring Ivey defensive lapse was Conley getting a blow by because Ivey was ball watching and that wasn't even a 3. Really what it points to is this defensive scheme being awful

We do this strange drop coverage and insist on going over every screen with Ivey. Why we don't ICE or hedge screens enough is bewildering

Ivey played incredibly well tonight. Played hard on D. Created for teammates. Hit a bunch of shots. Great explosive drives.... and a +8 in 36 minutes.

He was great on offense, but he was a disaster on defense. He got lost several times on switches and rotations leading to several open 3's.

He was still a positive tho, because he was a beast offensively. He did play hard on D but sadly he was still very bad there. He need to learn and improve on that side of the ball, if he does he will be great.

He was not a disaster he was good on defense he even had a couple possessions totally locking up Edwards.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

Yep. This play specifically
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2OULhOMFqg/?igsh=cTJ1amFyN3V5anI3

He's beginning to show he's got the chops to defend and is shedding whatever labels some give him

[Canadafan]

Unpopular opinion Ivey should play the point and Cade should be the off guard.

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I've always thought that. The 2 of them always seemed like a great fit to me, taking turns running the offense. Mind boggling how clueless our coach is and has been

[7r5ur]

The ironic part in all of this is you'd think Monty doesn't want to give Ivey the ball because he's turnover prone or whatever. In reality...

Turnover % as pick and roll ball handler:
Jaden Ivey: 16.8%
Cade Cunningham: 17.5%
Killian Hayes: 17.4%

[NYPiston]

This is why Ivey is a bad fit for the Pistons. Cade is better as a lead guard and Ivey is better as a lead guard, I don't see either maximizing their ability as a complimentary shooting guard especially in Ivey's case. Once Cade returns, Ivey will likely struggle to find a niche again. Hopefully this is a good showcase for teams to see what Ivey can do when he's running a team because I don't see a long term future here for him unfortunately.

[NYPiston]

A whole lotta people on here bought into Monty's nonsense with Ivey.

I think most here called Monty out on that BS, I know I certainly did.

Guy seemingly did no research on this team and has coached like he didn't see one day of tape on these players. He didn't know how to use most of them from Day One.

[7r5ur]

This is why Ivey is a bad fit for the Pistons. Cade is better as a lead guard and Ivey is better as a lead guard, I don't see either maximizing their ability as a complimentary shooting guard especially in Ivey's case. Once Cade returns, Ivey will likely struggle to find a niche again. Hopefully this is a good showcase for teams to see what Ivey can do when he's running a team because I don't see a long term future here for him unfortunately.

Ivey didn't even get the ball most of the time in this game. Monty still had Killian pounding the rock with Ivey in the corner even though Killian's more of a connective passer and not a playmaker (since he can't break down the defense...bottom 15% as P&R ball handler). Replace Killian and Sasser's ball pounding with Cade and the team is where it should be, and both will thrive.

Neither Cade or Ivey are good enough to dominate the ball on every play, and I would argue that you don't want ANY player doing that, even if they're Luka or whatever. Both can play off the ball as long as it's a mix of on-and-off and not just parking one of them in the corner for 35 minute per game while the other gets totally worn down from 99% usage.

Saying they can't play with each other is a total cop-out for Monty's horrific coaching. Their styles compliment each other very well and a good coach would get them playing off of each other's ability to draw the attention of defenses.

[Moses ShamMoses]

One thing I noticed with Ivey (and it might just be my imagination) he seems to be getting more lift on his jump shots. He normally has a set shot on open threes but I watched highlights and he seemed to be getting higher off the ground. It just looked more natural and fluid to me. Again, maybe just my imagination.

[Billl]

Ivey had a really nice game. Offensively, very solid. Defensively, he's putting in the effort.

And I think it's really important to separate the effort from the outcome. Muscala is in the right place and playing good team defense not because he's trying harder than Duren or Stew or he's naturally defensively smarter. The guys has just made those rotations probably 10,000 times a year for the last dozen years. He's not thinking about it anymore. He's done it so much he's just naturally reacting. Ivey was late on rotations. It's not because he's dumb and it wasn't because he didn't try. He's just thinking about it still. And in the NBA, the pace is too fast to do that. If it takes you a half second to read the play and start making the correct rotation, you are late. The shot it up or the guy has already made a move. He just needs to keep putting in the effort in games and in practice until it is second nature. The thing we can't tolerate is lack of effort. Everyone can run back. Everyone can have active hands and get deflections or make shots/passes tougher. Everyone can move their feet and make guys drive around you instead of straight line to the basket. If he does that while he's getting the reps to get better at team defense, he'll be alright.

[NYPiston]

Ivey didn't even get the ball most of the time in this game. Monty still had Killian pounding the rock with Ivey in the corner even though Killian's more of a connective passer and not a playmaker (since he can't break down the defense...bottom 15% as P&R ball handler). Replace Killian and Sasser's ball pounding with Cade and the team is where it should be, and both will thrive.

Neither Cade or Ivey are good enough to dominate the ball on every play, and I would argue that you don't want ANY player doing that, even if they're Luka or whatever. Both can play off the ball as long as it's a mix of on-and-off and not just parking one of them in the corner for 35 minute per game while the other gets totally worn down from 99% usage.

Saying they can't play with each other is a total cop-out for Monty's horrific coaching. Their styles compliment each other very well and a good coach would get them playing off of each other's ability to draw the attention of defenses.

Lead guard doesn't mean dominate the ball on every play.

My point is that Ivey has flourished when he was running the team and struggles to find his way when somebody else is running the offense. Granted, there's not a big sample size to draw from because Cade was injured most of last season and Monty thought it was a good idea to pair Killian and then other guys with Cade most of this season.

I think the rest of this season needs to be focused on developing the Cade-Ivey duo and letting them play through their mistakes. My issue is that this coach doesn't seem overly interested in young player development and putting them in the best position to succeed so I'm skeptical that it'll work out with Ivey here.

[MortSahlfan]

Killian's more of a connective passer .

I love that term, and have probably used it before because it's exactly who he is... In the political world, Killian Hayes is like someone who re-regulates business, to let it flow easier. I don't even bother to look up stats for hockey assists, because our guys usually miss. But assuming Monte Morris comes back later this month, there's absolutely no reason for Killian to play. I think the Pistons have to trade him and Wiseman, because we might as well try another expiring contract (or a proven player with a year or two left) like we did with Muscala, who is an upgrade, and much cheaper than Wiseman. He tried, but I can't see him going to another team and thriving. Now if a team has a ton of injuries and they're forced to play 35 minutes a game, they'll look good on paper, although I think Killian could help a playoff team who needs that 3rd pg in case they get into foul trouble, playing a couple of game in a 7-game series. Otherwise, I see him going back to France.

[DetroitSho]

Ivey played incredibly well tonight. Played hard on D. Created for teammates. Hit a bunch of shots. Great explosive drives.... and a +8 in 36 minutes.

He was great on offense, but he was a disaster on defense. He got lost several times on switches and rotations leading to several open 3's.

He was still a positive tho, because he was a beast offensively. He did play hard on D but sadly he was still very bad there. He need to learn and improve on that side of the ball, if he does he will be great.

Here's my thing about Ivey and his defense. One thought that popped in my head yesterday was just how hard it is to play defense these days. You can be Stew who's sagging down into the lane to help cut off a drive from a guard, then the guard kicks it out to KAT. You do an amazing job of recovering, and your feet are literally on the 3 point line waiting to defend. KAT just pulls it from the triple threat position 4 feet behind the line and buries a 3. This s**t happened like 4 times yesterday. How tf do you guard that?

When I hear bad defense, I'm looking to see if a guy is constantly getting walked by 1 on 1. Is he giving no effort? Is he not playing good helpside defense? To me, the getting lost on switches I can't pin fully on Ivey because as a team we're lost alot of times on what we wanna do. Sometimes we're switching, sometimes we're fighting through screens, going over, going under, etc. Frankly, I'm sick of the switching and wish we'd hedge and recover. Make teams beat us with great passing instead of hunting mismatches.

Man to man, Ivey is competing defensively. If his man gets a slight advantage, he's using his makeup speed to recover. Fighting through multiple screens every possession is a very difficult part of point of attack defense. People are not considering that.

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[DetroitSho]

He was great on offense, but he was a disaster on defense. He got lost several times on switches and rotations leading to several open 3's.

He was still a positive tho, because he was a beast offensively. He did play hard on D but sadly he was still very bad there. He need to learn and improve on that side of the ball, if he does he will be great.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3M&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022300569&PlayerID=0&RangeType=0&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612750&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

Rewatch their 15 made threes. If anything Sasser went under a pick and roll on Conley once and I feel like our bigs we too slow getting back to KAT but nothing with Ivey at all. Ivey's guy had two made threes out of the 15 one he recovered great but McDaniels drained one in his face and on another he was a bit slow/late getting back to Edwards. Monty actually said he was most proud of Ivey's defense this game.

Man brought receipts

The only glaring Ivey defensive lapse was Conley getting a blow by because Ivey was ball watching and that wasn't even a 3. Really what it points to is this defensive scheme being awful

We do this strange drop coverage and insist on going over every screen with Ivey. Why we don't ICE or hedge screens enough is bewildering

He was great on offense, but he was a disaster on defense. He got lost several times on switches and rotations leading to several open 3's.

He was still a positive tho, because he was a beast offensively. He did play hard on D but sadly he was still very bad there. He need to learn and improve on that side of the ball, if he does he will be great.

He was not a disaster he was good on defense he even had a couple possessions totally locking up Edwards.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

Yep. This play specifically
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2OULhOMFqg/?igsh=cTJ1amFyN3V5anI3

He's beginning to show he's got the chops to defend and is shedding whatever labels some give him

Hadn't seen this post and just made this same point about hedging on screens

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[MortSahlfan]

PISTONS defensive mistakes

Watch on YouTube

[whitehops]

PISTONS defensive mistakes

i sincerely hope that guy stops making videos. it's one thing to have a grating voice but to be completely ill-informed as well is just good for no one.

[MortSahlfan]

PISTONS defensive mistakes

i sincerely hope that guy stops making videos. it's one thing to have a grating voice but to be completely ill-informed as well is just good for no one.

His screaming annoys me... I wish he'd slow it down, and break it down slower.. Something to evaluate after the game, but I must I haven't watched more than 1-2 minutes.

One thing I disagree with him is "hedging" on defense.. I like a guy to commit. But things like jogging to your spot, and a lot of other mistakes are spot-on.

[Kalamazoo317]

I honestly thought this was some of the best defense we played, which I know seems crazy when you look at the score. When a team is just on fire from the three, there's only so much you can do, but we had some really good showings, and some of the best defense I've seen from Bojan and Ivey. You can really see the difference having Beefstew in there makes on defense as well.