What should our trade deadline strategy be?

[bstein14]

Do people think "shooting" ONLY occurs outside the 3 point line? Duren is actually already more than capable out to 12-15 feet. He's showing an increasing ability to drive to the paint.

I don't need him to become a 3 point bomber. If he becomes a person who completely shuts down the paint defensively and is really good on hedging and recovering on pick n rolls, then I'm good with him being a mid range maven offensively.

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He's 0-6 on jumpers between 15ft-19ft this season and he's 4-12 (33.3%) on shots between 10ft-14ft this season so in no way whatsoever has he shown he's more than capable from 12-15 feet. If he starts shooting 4 shots a game in that 10 to 15 feet range and making 2 per game then he's showing he's capable and keeping the defense honest but he's no where close to that.

[vege]

Bridges was an example. Markkanen was another example. Neither of them are available.

You can go for Murray, or someone else. My point is, if someone is giving you a better fit than Ivey you trade Ivey without thinking twice.

If someone make an offer for Cade or Duren, you don't trade them at all.

I posted a ton of times that I would trade Ivey + Wiseman for Cam Johnson.

Why is Duren untouchable? I think he’s going to be a good player for sure, but what is he going to bring to this team once he’s fully developed? If there’s doubt whether he can start shooting outside the paint, or bring his defence up considerably I actually think we should trade him now whilst he still has a ton of “potential”. I personally see him as someone who is going to grab a whole lot of rebounds whilst providing at average to slightly above average defence and unable to score outside of the paint when all is said and done. That’s not someone you spend a bit chunk of cap space on.

I actually have more faith in Ivey or Ausur developing into a player that’s fits the modern day archetypes. I think we need someone that fits the unicorn mould in a centre (not that it’s available) but at least someone that shoots a little bit from distance (midrange or 3) and still provides above average defence at the rim and blocks shots. If your centre can shoot even mid range shots respectably it just opens up so many more options.

Duren as a 20 yo understand the game well, he understand it at an entire different level compared to Ivey. Duren still need to improve a lot of things, but he has improved during this season, something Ivey didn't. He is phisically gifted have a lot of chemistry with Cade, and their game fit well together.

Ausar could develop better than Duren, but he is a 2/3/4, he need to be at least passable as a shooter.

[DBC10]

Bridges was an example. Markkanen was another example. Neither of them are available.

You can go for Murray, or someone else. My point is, if someone is giving you a better fit than Ivey you trade Ivey without thinking twice.

If someone make an offer for Cade or Duren, you don't trade them at all.

I posted a ton of times that I would trade Ivey + Wiseman for Cam Johnson.

The question is was the Grant trade worth it? Right now we’re begging for a Jerami Grant and whether you or another fan care to admit, Grant with his contract may be able to get you a FRP at this point seeing the unavailability of wings like Grant/Tobias level or OG. Was Duren worth it? From getting a franchise center with high potential yes it was worth it. But Duren is also the most replaceable player we have being a rim runner. Sarr is already more talented than Duren. If we get a chance to draft Sarr, I’d trade Duren without thinking twice about it because Duren can get us Mikal Bridges or Markannen type. Of course they have Claxton and Kessler. That’s what I’m saying, duren is replaceable.

Sarr being compared to JJJ is an extremely lazy take form the draft “experts” and I’ve already said this on another thread but I live in Perth, Western Australia where Sarr plays for the Perth Wildcats and the 3 point line is further in (Fiba distance) than the NBA 3 and I’m
less confident in him developing an actual nba 3 point shot from what I’ve seen, not to mention at this stage whilst he can produce statistically they are still a little hollow in the sense they aren’t winning plays.

With all that aside though, I still agree with the underlying premise of your point and would trade Duren if it would net us a haul of picks in 2025 or beyond, since it gives us a chance to really open things up. Durens path to becoming a player that’s a game changer for us is far murkier than Ivey’s or Thompsons imo.

Preface by saying I do like Duren a lot on this roster and all this talk about trading Ivey/Ausar is old because it's the mindset looking for a solution without necessarily finding the root cause

Having said that, what do people realistically think Duren can become? We have to factor in this day and age that just because you can anchor the paint, rebound, and rim run, that isn't enough for you to be part of a big 3 let alone a big 2 in this league. It's hard to find top 5 playoff teams last year that had a guy like Duren be a part of a core 3 making noise. It's been all about pace & space wings and centers and sprinkling some great guard play from guys like Halli, Brunson, and Shai

Isn't Duren basically 90% Ayton in his first couple PHX years?
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=durenja01&p1yrfrom=2023&p1yrto=2024&player_id2=aytonde01&p2yrfrom=2019&p2yrto=2020

They're basically mirror images of each other (shot attempts are far more with Ayton, granted). Unless Duren magically becomes a guy that becomes a 3 or more AST type of guy or can actually space the floor on 4+ attempts per game, I personally do not see him as a core 3 guy unless he can be had for a discount. I hesitate to declare the core is Cade/Duren and then the rest

[DetroitSho]

Do people think "shooting" ONLY occurs outside the 3 point line? Duren is actually already more than capable out to 12-15 feet. He's showing an increasing ability to drive to the paint.

I don't need him to become a 3 point bomber. If he becomes a person who completely shuts down the paint defensively and is really good on hedging and recovering on pick n rolls, then I'm good with him being a mid range maven offensively.

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He's 0-6 on jumpers between 15ft-19ft this season and he's 4-12 (33.3%) on shots between 10ft-14ft this season so in no way whatsoever has he shown he's more than capable from 12-15 feet. If he starts shooting 4 shots a game in that 10 to 15 feet range and making 2 per game then he's showing he's capable and keeping the defense honest but he's no where close to that.

Admittedly I worded that poorly as I was in the parent pickup line grabbing my kids from school and was back and forth between hurried typing and rolling forward. To be clear, despite Duren not being some great shooter, his increased/increasing ability to drive to the rim makes him effective out to 15 feet. Centers backing off is only providing him space to operate.

I had a whole spiel earlier about LaMarcus Aldridge and his devastating mid-range game, but I guess I was in a hurry I didn't get to articulate it. All said, I don't subscribe to the "shoot 3s or die" theory of a player being judged as valuable.

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[bstein14]

Do people think "shooting" ONLY occurs outside the 3 point line? Duren is actually already more than capable out to 12-15 feet. He's showing an increasing ability to drive to the paint.

I don't need him to become a 3 point bomber. If he becomes a person who completely shuts down the paint defensively and is really good on hedging and recovering on pick n rolls, then I'm good with him being a mid range maven offensively.

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He's 0-6 on jumpers between 15ft-19ft this season and he's 4-12 (33.3%) on shots between 10ft-14ft this season so in no way whatsoever has he shown he's more than capable from 12-15 feet. If he starts shooting 4 shots a game in that 10 to 15 feet range and making 2 per game then he's showing he's capable and keeping the defense honest but he's no where close to that.

Admittedly I worded that poorly as I was in the parent pickup line grabbing my kids from school and was back and forth between hurried typing and rolling forward. To be clear, despite Duren not being some great shooter, his increased/increasing ability to drive to the rim makes him effective out to 15 feet. Centers backing off is only providing him space to operate.

I had a whole spiel earlier about LaMarcus Aldridge and his devastating mid-range game, but I guess I was in a hurry I didn't get to articulate it. All said, I don't subscribe to the "shoot 3s or die" theory of a player being judged as valuable.

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I tend to agree that eventually Duren will be a really solid 15 ft jumper... he still might be 2-3 years away from really doing it consistently but I've liked what we've seen from him as far as his form and confidence in that area I think he gets there.

[breezypeezy]

I like Cade, Duren long term, the 2 new vets Musky and Galli can still shoot and Sasser and Bojan can can both shoot im keeping all of them. Probably keep Ivey and Auser, its too early to give up on them on these inexpensive rook deals.

So that leaves Wiseman, Killian, Burkes, Stewart, Harris, Knox and Morris as garbage to get out from this historically horribly constructed roster.

Honestly i dont know what anyone would offer for the lot of them but they are all either garbage or oft injured and have responsibility towards the Alltime losing streak so I want them gone as the tainted influences they are.

[thesack12]

The Deadline strategy should be stay mostly static and look to the offseason. If they can get a solid asset for Bojan or perhaps even Burks, do it. Other than that, just let the trade deadline pass into the night.

Off season strategy should be purge the front office, and fire the coaching staff and start from scratch. When you are a franchise that has experienced literally 0 success under current ownership and overall the team hasn't won a single playoff game in 16 years, you shouldn't be looking to "rebuild" or "restore" anything. The franchise needs a complete rebirth and re-imagining.

[BadMofoPimp]

I don't expect many changes due to most elite players being unattainable and the remaining free agents aging in Free Agency. As far as the trade deadline, GM will have to factor in that the team will most likely strike out on prized free agency thus will need to fill out the roster with mid level vets to meet the salary cap minimum this upcoming summer. Hence, Bojan and possibly Burks retained or replaced with similar on short term contracts then shoot for Van Fleet, Mitchell, Tatum, Jamaal Murray, Rangle, Ingram, Brogdon etc in 2025. All this can change if there is a helluva deal out there, but if not, then target a PF in the draft and have Stewart play backup.

[theBigLip]

As for Trade Deadline strategy, I would expect us to look at moving Bogdonovich, Burks and Morris if the offers are good. If not, we need vets to stabilize the team, and now that they are all healthy, we are looking better.

We should not trade any of our young core four while they are on their rookie deals. They are inexpensive and haven’t reached their ceilings yet. No panic trades with them.

Hayes and Wiseman are in a different category. They are going to need extensions. Hayes should get moved. Wiseman can be retained at a minimum. We could do worse for a third center.

I doubt we make any move though. Seems like the Bagley trade was part of the plan for cap space. Not sure if we “have” to, or “can” do anything else now. Most of our action will be this summer.

[Canadafan]

Other than the crazy Lavine trade, I'd be happy if we just tried to add another mid level type guy like royce or even shoot higher for finney Smith. The smart play would be to then try to retain Morris Bojan and Muscala. Let Sasser take over for Burks. Let Gallinari go. Sign a vet 3rd string center to mentor Stew and duren. Draft a forward.
That sounds so boring though so let's get crazy and trade for lavine and then retain the vets and draft a forward

[DetroitSho]

Other than the crazy Lavine trade, I'd be happy if we just tried to add another mid level type guy like royce or even shoot higher for finney Smith. The smart play would be to then try to retain Morris Bojan and Muscala. Let Sasser take over for Burks. Let Gallinari go. Sign a vet 3rd string center to mentor Stew and duren. Draft a forward.
That sounds so boring though so let's get crazy and trade for lavine and then retain the vets and draft a forward

Is Muscala not your vet 3rd string center?

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[Kalamazoo317]

Other than the crazy Lavine trade, I'd be happy if we just tried to add another mid level type guy like royce or even shoot higher for finney Smith. The smart play would be to then try to retain Morris Bojan and Muscala. Let Sasser take over for Burks. Let Gallinari go. Sign a vet 3rd string center to mentor Stew and duren. Draft a forward.
That sounds so boring though so let's get crazy and trade for lavine and then retain the vets and draft a forward

Is Muscala not your vet 3rd string center?

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Not as long as Beefstew is our starting 4 instead of our back up 5.