It's time! Ping-pong balls of doom. Sunday May 12th 3pm

[MotownMadness]

We got a top 5 pick this year and most likely a top 8 pick in a loaded draft next year. Pistons should be able to build something worth it between now and then through trades, FA and the drafts.

They need to fire Weaver though as soon as they hire a big chief

[Kalamazoo317]

We weren't choosing to be bad - we just are. Nothing we could have done to win more. And we are probably going to be bad again next year. Just being tired of losing doesn't make it go away.

We absolutely made choices that led to our being *this* bad, though. We chose to punt on our cap space and make dumb trades like the Harris one. We chose to load up on young "potential" players, often in the same position (Duren/Bagley/Wiseman) and not give them competent vets to challenge or advise them. We chose to not invest in wing depth at all and to not to priotize shooting around Cade. We chose to stick with a coach all season who was doing a terrible job on rotations, etc. We chose to keep non-NBA players like Hayes on the roster and that coach chose to play them big minutes. We chose to shut down players at the end of the season for ticky tack injuries and chose not to ever have a sense of urgency this year.

Being bad wasn't a choice. But we've done plenty of things that have created a losing culture here.

[Laimbeer]

We weren't choosing to be bad - we just are. Nothing we could have done to win more. And we are probably going to be bad again next year. Just being tired of losing doesn't make it go away.

We absolutely made choices that led to our being *this* bad, though. We chose to punt on our cap space and make dumb trades like the Harris one. We chose to load up on young "potential" players, often in the same position (Duren/Bagley/Wiseman) and not give them competent vets to challenge or advise them. We chose to not invest in wing depth at all and to not to priotize shooting around Cade. We chose to stick with a coach all season who was doing a terrible job on rotations, etc. We chose to keep non-NBA players like Hayes on the roster and that coach chose to play them big minutes. We chose to shut down players at the end of the season for ticky tack injuries and chose not to ever have a sense of urgency this year.

Being bad wasn't a choice. But we've done plenty of things that have created a losing culture here.

Oh, I agree. It's our (Weaver's) fault we're this bad. We should be better by now. At this point do we want to trade picks and young players, and would that net us anything beyond threatening the play-in? And getting cut out of what is apparently a great draft next summer?

[breezypeezy]

#4 and #8 in this draft is like #9 and #14 in most draft years. And Buzz just explained how these picks are not going to be that good. A lot of picks but if they are late lottery we are very unlikely to get a player as good as Cade w all those picks. I’m happy keeping Cade.

Virtually every year you have players available at 9-14 that are as good or better than Cade.

12th Jalen Williams
16th Sengun
12th Haliburton
21st Maxey
30th Bane
11th SGA
10th Mikal Bridges
33rd Brunson
13th Donovan Mitchell
11th Sabonis
27th Siakam
29th Dejounte
13th Booker
15th Giannis

If you're getting like 5 extra shots at that range of player on top of our yearly #5 pick, we'd have a lot of extra cracks at a true franchise player or at least multiple all-star types. And of course you have the chance that you get lucky and one of these jumps into the top 3 or 4 in a good draft. Multiple teams moved way up this year. Houston just got that (albeit in a less exciting year). Nothing is guaranteed but IMO it's a better route than going all-in around a #2 guy.

When you're operating with a crystal ball that knows the future then you can easily hit on great players every draft obv.

Since 1994 when we drafted Grant Hill we have drafted a grand total of two all stars. Andre Drummond and Middleton who we traded pre breakout. Thats 30 years of drafting. Its hilarious we have a obv hit in the draft we've been waiting forever for but "hes likely only a #2 on a contender" so lets trade him for more picks so can attempt to use our franchises impeccable drafting to build a team.

Alan Houston was a good pick in that 90's era as well.

[Kalamazoo317]

We weren't choosing to be bad - we just are. Nothing we could have done to win more. And we are probably going to be bad again next year. Just being tired of losing doesn't make it go away.

We absolutely made choices that led to our being *this* bad, though. We chose to punt on our cap space and make dumb trades like the Harris one. We chose to load up on young "potential" players, often in the same position (Duren/Bagley/Wiseman) and not give them competent vets to challenge or advise them. We chose to not invest in wing depth at all and to not to priotize shooting around Cade. We chose to stick with a coach all season who was doing a terrible job on rotations, etc. We chose to keep non-NBA players like Hayes on the roster and that coach chose to play them big minutes. We chose to shut down players at the end of the season for ticky tack injuries and chose not to ever have a sense of urgency this year.

Being bad wasn't a choice. But we've done plenty of things that have created a losing culture here.

Oh, I agree. It's our (Weaver's) fault we're this bad. We should be better by now. At this point do we want to trade picks and young players, and would that net us anything beyond threatening the play-in? And getting cut out of what is apparently a great draft next summer?

I don't want to trade picks. I want to trade young players if we don't think they're good fits and we feel we're selling high on them (which I think could likely be the case with Ivey and Duren). I want to try to compete without mortgaging the future. I definitely don't want to be intentionally bad just so we have better odds in next year's lottery. Better odds have dumped all over us three years in a row.

[theBigLip]

We absolutely made choices that led to our being *this* bad, though. We chose to punt on our cap space and make dumb trades like the Harris one. We chose to load up on young "potential" players, often in the same position (Duren/Bagley/Wiseman) and not give them competent vets to challenge or advise them. We chose to not invest in wing depth at all and to not to priotize shooting around Cade. We chose to stick with a coach all season who was doing a terrible job on rotations, etc. We chose to keep non-NBA players like Hayes on the roster and that coach chose to play them big minutes. We chose to shut down players at the end of the season for ticky tack injuries and chose not to ever have a sense of urgency this year.

Being bad wasn't a choice. But we've done plenty of things that have created a losing culture here.

Oh, I agree. It's our (Weaver's) fault we're this bad. We should be better by now. At this point do we want to trade picks and young players, and would that net us anything beyond threatening the play-in? And getting cut out of what is apparently a great draft next summer?

I don't want to trade picks. I want to trade young players if we don't think they're good fits and we feel we're selling high on them (which I think could likely be the case with Ivey and Duren). I want to try to compete without mortgaging the future. I definitely don't want to be intentionally bad just so we have better odds in next year's lottery. Better odds have dumped all over us three years in a row.

Ivey and Duren. Selling high? IMHO, I think we would be selling low. They are both so young w elite athleticism. I guess I could be wrong and they still have their “potential” to sell. But I would expect significant improvements from each next year, providing more value.

[Kalamazoo317]

Yeah, for me Ivey didn't build on his first year at all, seems like he'll never fully get it on defense and seems like he's going to be a streaky off ball player at best (and that the longer he's on a team where he can't be the primary ball handler, the worse his value will sink), while Duren's lack of defensive ability is going to be a bigger and bigger deal each year and that "potential" well is going to dry up on both Ivey and him.

Young and cheap with elite athleticism *is* their value, and that value gets inherently lower as they age and get closer to needing bigger contracts. So unless you believe they're going to add significantly to that elite athleticism with stuff that (imo) they haven't really flashed that much, yeah, we'd be selling high.

[theBigLip]

So unless you believe they're going to add significantly to that elite athleticism with stuff that (imo) they haven't really flashed that much, yeah, we'd be selling high.

I guess we each have our opinion and won’t know the answer until next year. My thoughts are they are so young, it’s almost impossible for them not to improve. Fingers crossed…

[jars]

I wasn't talking about trading back, I was talking about acquiring multiple picks in drafts by trading guys like Cade, Duren, Ivey, etc. to give ourselves more chances.

Sorry, got your point mixed up with another thread. Again, I just think we disagree on the value of our players in this specific draft.

Theoretically, I agree about having more chances, and that is what Troy has done by trading assets to get the rights to Stew and Duren and Sasser to a lesser extent. We haven't hit on that superstar, but managed to get role players/potential starters. I'm not mad about it, but I don't think this is the year to have that swing unless our scouting department is adamant on a player. I feel pessimistic about this draft class as most do, so I'd prefer to either keep our guys and look at internal improvement, or move them for other proven assets.

[Kalamazoo317]

To be clear, assuming we do end up keeping them, I'm absolutely *rooting* for them to improve massively. Just not terribly expecting it.

Edit: Just like I did with Killian.