Troy Weaver, see ya

[One_and_Done]

Which is why a lot of us have been advocating for shooting around Cade. Cade has a decent inside game, an excellent midrange game, good court vision, and good passing. His outside shot should, hopefully, keep improving, but the problem isn't that he's not an elite outside shooter - it's that we have so little shooting around him that there's weight on him to be an elite outside shooter on top of everything else.

There is also an overall talent deficit that is difficult to overcome. I know that's difficult for Piston fans to admit too, but it's more than just fit.

One of the reasons balancing out the roster with vets is important - it takes pressure off the young guys, in addition to modeling behaviors and at times providing mentorship. It's easy to take for granted these young men are coming into a lot of money and fame at a young age and the pressures that come with that. Not everybody has the support around them.

But yes, Cade does not have to be an elite shooter with reasonable roster construction but hopefully he continues to improve.

I mean, yeah, it's both.

We have a poorly constructed roster and we really only have one guy who'd start on a good team, and only a couple more besides that who'd get notable minutes on a good team. And we don't currently have a top 30 player on our roster (sorry Cade boosters but we don't- MAYBE Cade can take strides towards being that next year).

Basically this. Weaver did such a bad job.

[Pharaoh]

There is also an overall talent deficit that is difficult to overcome. I know that's difficult for Piston fans to admit too, but it's more than just fit.

One of the reasons balancing out the roster with vets is important - it takes pressure off the young guys, in addition to modeling behaviors and at times providing mentorship. It's easy to take for granted these young men are coming into a lot of money and fame at a young age and the pressures that come with that. Not everybody has the support around them.

But yes, Cade does not have to be an elite shooter with reasonable roster construction but hopefully he continues to improve.

I mean, yeah, it's both.

We have a poorly constructed roster and we really only have one guy who'd start on a good team, and only a couple more besides that who'd get notable minutes on a good team. And we don't currently have a top 30 player on our roster (sorry Cade boosters but we don't- MAYBE Cade can take strides towards being that next year).

Basically this. Weaver did such a bad job.

When some here would approach the up coming season with optimism I consistently stated that we were too young to win games.

The whole "compete to win" phrase being uttered every training camp said all you needed to know!

Teams that are trying to win say so, make roster moves to do so and then go out and execute.

The Harris move was a prime example of us not making moves to win. Having him, Burks and Bojan (& Morris) might have lead some to believe we had brought in quality vets but how many of that foursome played significant minutes every single night?

We will not win much with a rotation featuring the following:

Duren, Stewart, Fontecchio, Ausar, Ivey, Cade, Sasser, Grimes and the #5 pick.

It's that simple.

We can add Tobias and Monk on "good" contracts and we still won't win much.

Add 10 year "locker room leaders" to round out the roster and it still won't add up to wins.

We need to make significant changes to that group of 9. I just don't know if the new FO can do that in a single offseason



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[bstein14]

I mean, yeah, it's both.

We have a poorly constructed roster and we really only have one guy who'd start on a good team, and only a couple more besides that who'd get notable minutes on a good team. And we don't currently have a top 30 player on our roster (sorry Cade boosters but we don't- MAYBE Cade can take strides towards being that next year).

Basically this. Weaver did such a bad job.

When some here would approach the up coming season with optimism I consistently stated that we were too young to win games.

The whole "compete to win" phrase being uttered every training camp said all you needed to know!

Teams that are trying to win say so, make roster moves to do so and then go out and execute.

The Harris move was a prime example of us not making moves to win. Having him, Burks and Bojan (& Morris) might have lead some to believe we had brought in quality vets but how many of that foursome played significant minutes every single night?

We will not win much with a rotation featuring the following:

Duren, Stewart, Fontecchio, Ausar, Ivey, Cade, Sasser, Grimes and the #5 pick.

It's that simple.

We can add Tobias and Monk on "good" contracts and we still won't win much.

Add 10 year "locker room leaders" to round out the roster and it still won't add up to wins.

We need to make significant changes to that group of 9. I just don't know if the new FO can do that in a single offseason



Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

If we're going to take a decent step forward this season (30-35 wins)

#1.) Two of Ivey, Grimes, Sasser are likely not in the rotation.
#2.) Stewart, Duren, Ausar, and the one guy from above are all 24 MPG or less players.
#3.) We trade #5 for win now help or they are a low MPG backup or out of the rotation.

C Jonas V (28) / Duren (20)
F Toppin (26) / Stew (22)
F Ausar (23) / Font (25)
G Cade (33) / Reed Sheppard or Rob Dillingham (15)
G Jones or Monk (31) / (Ivey, Sasser, or Grimes 17)

If we can take that $66 million of cap space and hit 3 solid FAs, as well get a good player at #5 and then take that room exception (2 years $17 million total) that's five total players that could/should be rotation players for us.

Bumps some of our current starters to bench roles and some of our current bench to out of rotation roles.

Of course with a new GM calling the shots, its almost certain that we'll also end up with a trade or two. I could have seen Weaver stand more pat but given our current makeup and trying to change the culture after a 14 win season and four historically bad losing years I think there's a solid chance that only 6 or 7 of our guys are back next year with 8 or 9 new guys in our 15 man unit.

[Pharaoh]

Basically this. Weaver did such a bad job.

When some here would approach the up coming season with optimism I consistently stated that we were too young to win games.

The whole "compete to win" phrase being uttered every training camp said all you needed to know!

Teams that are trying to win say so, make roster moves to do so and then go out and execute.

The Harris move was a prime example of us not making moves to win. Having him, Burks and Bojan (& Morris) might have lead some to believe we had brought in quality vets but how many of that foursome played significant minutes every single night?

We will not win much with a rotation featuring the following:

Duren, Stewart, Fontecchio, Ausar, Ivey, Cade, Sasser, Grimes and the #5 pick.

It's that simple.

We can add Tobias and Monk on "good" contracts and we still won't win much.

Add 10 year "locker room leaders" to round out the roster and it still won't add up to wins.

We need to make significant changes to that group of 9. I just don't know if the new FO can do that in a single offseason



Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

If we're going to take a decent step forward this season (30-35 wins)

#1.) Two of Ivey, Grimes, Sasser are likely not in the rotation.
#2.) Stewart, Duren, Ausar, and the one guy from above are all 24 MPG or less players.
#3.) We trade #5 for win now help or they are a low MPG backup or out of the rotation.

C Jonas V (28) / Duren (20)
F Toppin (26) / Stew (22)
F Ausar (23) / Font (25)
G Cade (33) / Reed Sheppard or Rob Dillingham (15)
G Jones or Monk (31) / (Ivey, Sasser, or Grimes 17)

If we can take that $66 million of cap space and hit 3 solid FAs, as well get a good player at #5 and then take that room exception (2 years $17 million total) that's five total players that could/should be rotation players for us.

Bumps some of our current starters to bench roles and some of our current bench to out of rotation roles.

Of course with a new GM calling the shots, its almost certain that we'll also end up with a trade or two. I could have seen Weaver stand more pat but given our current makeup and trying to change the culture after a 14 win season and four historically bad losing years I think there's a solid chance that only 6 or 7 of our guys are back next year with 8 or 9 new guys in our 15 man unit.

What's the estimated price tag on Jonas, Obi and Tyus Jones (or Monk)?

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[7r5ur]

If we're going to take a decent step forward this season (30-35 wins)

#1.) Two of Ivey, Grimes, Sasser are likely not in the rotation.
#2.) Stewart, Duren, Ausar, and the one guy from above are all 24 MPG or less players.
#3.) We trade #5 for win now help or they are a low MPG backup or out of the rotation.

C Jonas V (28) / Duren (20)
F Toppin (26) / Stew (22)
F Ausar (23) / Font (25)
G Cade (33) / Reed Sheppard or Rob Dillingham (15)
G Jones or Monk (31) / (Ivey, Sasser, or Grimes 17)

If we can take that $66 million of cap space and hit 3 solid FAs, as well get a good player at #5 and then take that room exception (2 years $17 million total) that's five total players that could/should be rotation players for us.

Bumps some of our current starters to bench roles and some of our current bench to out of rotation roles.

Of course with a new GM calling the shots, it's almost certain that we'll also end up with a trade or two. I could have seen Weaver stand more pat but given our current makeup and trying to change the culture after a 14 win season and four historically bad losing years I think there's a solid chance that only 6 or 7 of our guys are back next year with 8 or 9 new guys in our 15 man unit.

I feel like that team has good depth (for Monty’s inevitable all-bench lineups) but has a real top-end talent issue. You have Cade who is optimistically a #2 and basically a bunch of bench 6th-7th man type of players.

Not the worst outcome though, as long as everyone is on reasonable contracts that can be flipped down the line.

I still feel like Tyus and Monk present some of the same issues we have with Ivey, namely he and Cade are both terrible defensively. Tyus and Monk are not really an upgrade at that and I think the defensive backcourt issues are worse than the backcourt spacing issues. At least Cade and Ivey are only a bit below average as shooters. They’re near the very bottom on D. Tyus and Monk both sit in that area too. I just don’t know if it’s worth paying monk like $25M for his 2% increase in 3 point shooting percentage over just playing Ivey. Or trading him for someone that maybe has a lower ceiling but can play both sides of the ball. Feels like a trade/draft is the only way to find a two-way player to pair with Cade.

I guess in a world where we drafted Sheppard/Dillingham we'd be moving on from Ivey and/or Sasser anyways. Can't really have that many young/small guards around.

I also think I’d rather have Tobias on this team than Obi, personally. Obi is younger but I think Tobias os a lot more capable of creating some offense for himself. But I guess we wouldn’t have the money after Tyus/Monk and Jonas.

[LaSheed]

I'll be in the minor on the no thanks for Monk train. And I really can't tell you why. Just don't love the fit.

I've always thought we need a ball handler and shooter next to Cade but realistically you aren't getting the shooting, ball handling and defense all in 1. We won 14 games. That's ok. Tyus Jones averaged 7 assists and 1 turnover a game on an equally awful team. I just feel like we have to take that if he's willing to come here.

Outside of the assist/turnover ratio Tyus is a proven top backup PG in the league in Memphis. So say we sign him and Ivey progresses like we hope then swap em out. That's also a favorite part of acquiring Tyus.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

If we're going to take a decent step forward this season (30-35 wins)

#1.) Two of Ivey, Grimes, Sasser are likely not in the rotation.
#2.) Stewart, Duren, Ausar, and the one guy from above are all 24 MPG or less players.
#3.) We trade #5 for win now help or they are a low MPG backup or out of the rotation.

If that’s the direction HOBO goes, then he needs to trade half the young players that everyone thinks are going to be in the rotation. Because if you sign three good FA’s, all of those young players’ values are going to tank.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

We will not win much with a rotation featuring the following:

Duren, Stewart, Fontecchio, Ausar, Ivey, Cade, Sasser, Grimes and the #5 pick.

It's that simple.

We can add Tobias and Monk on "good" contracts and we still won't win much.

Add 10 year "locker room leaders" to round out the roster and it still won't add up to wins.

We need to make significant changes to that group of 9. I just don't know if the new FO can do that in a single offseason



Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Great post. Nailed it. Every FA you sign that you think is going to contribute is going to take 30 mpg away from this group of 9. So why not unload some of them now before some of their minutes get halved?

Or…… you take other teams unwanted players with picks and run it back with those nine again…… bottom five result and another chance at a loaded draft…..

[bstein14]

If we're going to take a decent step forward this season (30-35 wins)

#1.) Two of Ivey, Grimes, Sasser are likely not in the rotation.
#2.) Stewart, Duren, Ausar, and the one guy from above are all 24 MPG or less players.
#3.) We trade #5 for win now help or they are a low MPG backup or out of the rotation.

If that’s the direction HOBO goes, then he needs to trade half the young players that everyone thinks are going to be in the rotation. Because if you sign three good FA’s, all of those young players’ values are going to tank.

Most of those guys have really low value coming off a 14 win season tho. Not sure it makes sense to trade Ivey for a pick in the mid 20s even though he hasn't shown yet he's worthy of 30+ MPG. He still likely has more upside than many of the guys who will be picked in the late first round.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

If we're going to take a decent step forward this season (30-35 wins)

#1.) Two of Ivey, Grimes, Sasser are likely not in the rotation.
#2.) Stewart, Duren, Ausar, and the one guy from above are all 24 MPG or less players.
#3.) We trade #5 for win now help or they are a low MPG backup or out of the rotation.

If that’s the direction HOBO goes, then he needs to trade half the young players that everyone thinks are going to be in the rotation. Because if you sign three good FA’s, all of those young players’ values are going to tank.

Most of those guys have really low value coming off a 14 win season tho. Not sure it makes sense to trade Ivey for a pick in the mid 20s even though he hasn't shown yet he's worthy of 30+ MPG. He still likely has more upside than many of the guys who will be picked in the late first round.

I hear you - to me, in your scenario, if Langdon identifies 2/3 players out of our core that are going to get squeezed out, he should trade them now before their value goes to zero. Doesn’t matter who to me - depends on who he signs.

[ComboGuardCity]

In 45 years these are the teams that have won championships:

1. Lakers
2. Heat
3. Spurs
4. Celtics
5. Warriors
6. Cavs
7. Mavs
8. Pistons
9. Bulls
10. Nuggets

10 teams in 40 years and we’re one of them. It’s very hard to win so I’ll take a semblance of competitive basketball as a good starting point.

Forgot the Bucks, Rockets and Raptors.

Also the Sixers if it’s 45 years (but not if it’s just 40).

The worst part is I forgot two that happened in the past 5 years.

[Canadafan]

I'll be in the minor on the no thanks for Monk train. And I really can't tell you why. Just don't love the fit.

I've always thought we need a ball handler and shooter next to Cade but realistically you aren't getting the shooting, ball handling and defense all in 1. We won 14 games. That's ok. Tyus Jones averaged 7 assists and 1 turnover a game on an equally awful team. I just feel like we have to take that if he's willing to come here.

Outside of the assist/turnover ratio Tyus is a proven top backup PG in the league in Memphis. So say we sign him and Ivey progresses like we hope then swap em out. That's also a favorite part of acquiring Tyus.

Ya I'd luv Tyus as well. Not gonna get the perfect guy like you said but I'll gladly take a guy that can share ball handling duties with Cade and can shoot a 3pter
Even if we stick with Cade and Ivey starting with Tyus sticking with his top backup PG rope like he had in Memphis. He can still get minutes with Cade essentially being Iveys backup.
Then we have Stew split time with Duren at center.
Hopefully get 2forwards to go with Fontecchio and Ausar.

[WuTang_OG]

The Washington Wizards are considered a potential landing spot for former Detroit Pistons general manager Troy Weaver, league sources told HoopsHype. Weaver, a Washington, DC native, previously worked with Wizards executives Michael Winger and Will Dawkins during their time with the Oklahoma City Thunder.

[MotownMadness]

The Washington Wizards are considered a potential landing spot for former Detroit Pistons general manager Troy Weaver, league sources told HoopsHype. Weaver, a Washington, DC native, previously worked with Wizards executives Michael Winger and Will Dawkins during their time with the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Wizards are about to go into a long rebuild

Weaver would also probably take Clingan at #2

[Uncle Mxy]

He's off to see the Wizards, the wonderful Wizards of... WTF?

[Rip32]

The Washington Wizards are considered a potential landing spot for former Detroit Pistons general manager Troy Weaver, league sources told HoopsHype. Weaver, a Washington, DC native, previously worked with Wizards executives Michael Winger and Will Dawkins during their time with the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Wizards are about to go into a long rebuild

Weaver would also probably take Clingan at #2

He's senior advisor so he won't be making decisions

[Mr Peanut]

He gets to be reunited with Bagley and use those two second rounders he sent out with him to get off the contract.

[A_dub06]

I feel like we have dropped the ball letting Washington sign weaver as an advisor when we could’ve used him as one. For every decision we could’ve asked him what he’d do, then do the exact opposite