Is Ivey on borrowed time?

[Sheeeeed]

You can try and debate it....but it's a losing argument. You are overvaluing Ivey and probably by a healthy margin. Nobody outside of Detroit is going to view him that way regardless of what salary argument you want to make.

Could Ivey recover some value with strong play? Sure. And if you want to bank on that then trading him while his value is low doesn't make sense.

It really isn't. Simon's can barely play 60ish games a season.

Not sure

He's a god awful defender but he does avg over 20ppg with a 2.7 OBPM

I'm not doubting his offensive ability on the court, the issue is the ability to stay on the court. Just doesn't seem like a smart investment given this teams ability to stay on court. I think 2 years of Ivey on rookie contract has more value than Simon's $25 million a year who at best should be a 6th man.

[MotownMadness]

It really isn't. Simon's can barely play 60ish games a season.

Not sure

He's a god awful defender but he does avg over 20ppg with a 2.7 OBPM

I'm not doubting his offensive ability on the court, the issue is the ability to stay on the court. Just doesn't seem like a smart investment given this teams ability to stay on court. I think 2 years of Ivey on rookie contract has more value than Simon's $25 million a year who at best should be a 6th man.

I wouldn't do it cause i don't want to invest in Simons long term with his defense

Still think he has more value to other teams than Ivey though

[MortSahlfan]

Teams with new leadership, like the Detroit Pistons and Charlotte Hornets, may end up feeding the rumor mill as their directions coalesce. Some NBA sources wonder if Jaden Ivey is part of Detroit’s long-term plan.
– via Bleacher Report

[Crymson]

Teams with new leadership, like the Detroit Pistons and Charlotte Hornets, may end up feeding the rumor mill as their directions coalesce. Some NBA sources wonder if Jaden Ivey is part of Detroit’s long-term plan.
– via Bleacher Report

"Some NBA sources." And Pincus isn't reliable.

The chance for the organization to see what Ivey could have been as a sophomore was ruined by his arbitrary sleazebag coach who spent the whole season screwing him around to such an extent that the team's owner had to intercede with that coach on Ivey's behalf not once but twice.

Said coach really muddied the waters where this team's youth is concerned, because there was no getting a reasonable evaluation of them under his stupendously incompetent leadership.

[VicVinegar]

Teams with new leadership, like the Detroit Pistons and Charlotte Hornets, may end up feeding the rumor mill as their directions coalesce. Some NBA sources wonder if Jaden Ivey is part of Detroit’s long-term plan.
– via Bleacher Report

"Some NBA sources." And Pincus isn't reliable.

The chance for the organization to see what Ivey could have been as a sophomore was ruined by his arbitrary sleazebag coach who spent the whole season screwing him around to such an extent that the team's owner had to intercede with that coach on Ivey's behalf not once but twice.

Said coach really muddied the waters where this team's youth is concerned, because there was no getting a reasonable evaluation of them under his stupendously incompetent leadership.

My college roommate used to write for bleacher report, this guy doesn't seem any more credible quite frankly. More of a columnist just posting his opinions (like people on this board) than someone with actual knowledge or an inside source. Apologies if I'm wrong and he's ever broken actual news before.

But I agree 100% regarding Ivey. I think he had a promising rookie year, obviously had some flaws but that was to be expected. And then Monte came in and ruined him off the bat. Monte was a terrible coach for multiple reasons, you can even tell Cade didn't respect the guy. Let's see what 22 year old Ivey can do under a new coach. At this point, the Pistons are invested. It makes way more sense to hope Ivey pans out than to trade him for pennies on the dollar. What could they even get for him right now? A late first? Some seconds? The #5 pick the last couple of years has felt like a low value draft pick. Not sure how a late first would generate anyone of value.

At this point I'm of the mindset of letting Ivey play out his contract. If he just ends up being a bench guy, or you don't want to re-sign him at the end of the contract, so be it. His upside is way higher than his current return.

[Uncle Mxy]

Ivey is on borrowed time from the Lord thy God Jesus Christ, who's staging a comeback from the Kingdom of Heaven.
As long as y'all repent, all is good here.

[MortSahlfan]

Ivey is on borrowed time from the Lord thy God Jesus Christ, who's staging a comeback from the Kingdom of Heaven.
As long as y'all repent, all is good here.

[Billl]

Monte was a horrible coach, but that has nothing to do with how bad ivey was defensively. There is absolutely no excuse for someone as quick and athletic as ivey to be completely out of plays on every screen and getting blown by on a consistent basis.

[Cowology]

Ivey is an odd duck. There was definitely some conversation around him being a top 3 pick and how much potential he had, blah blah blah. Didn't like the fit, but understood the "upside" with the pick. Then his value got oddly conflated during the year when Cade was out and some people actually wondered out loud if he was better than Cade. Laughable.

I just think he's one of these dudes that has "talent" but doesn't contribute to winning basketball. Yeah, he's got the pedigree and a history with the city and there are lots of reasons to think it *could* work, but those are all external motivators or factors we attempt to superimpose. On the court, the guy is not a good fit and I'm personally skeptical that he becomes anything more than a 6th man. There are just too many holes for the way the game is currently being played.

And yeah, on a personal note I'm not a fan of some of the off-court comments. It's all personal stuff and I want to be respectful of that, but the way he handles it makes me leary.

But I hope I'm wrong.

[Neptune]

Please don't jump on the bandwagon when our new head coach actually plays Ivey corect and he's is averaging over 20ppg here. Please!

[Cowology]

Please don't jump on the bandwagon when our new head coach actually plays Ivey corect and he's is averaging over 20ppg here. Please!

This is such an odd statement to me.

In an intelligent society, people are able to change their opinions when presented with new information. And as a Piston fan, why root against other Piston fans??

The mindset here is boggling. I truly hope I am wrong and I am able to "jump on the bandwagon". I hope every neigh Sayer can. That's a GOOD thing.

[MrBigShot]

This is definitely a "show me something" year for Ivey.

[bstein14]

This is definitely a "show me something" year for Ivey.

He's extension eligible next summer, and from what we've seen so far even giving him Beef Stew $ on an extension would be a mistake. Don't get me wrong, I still think he's a high upside player but he for sure needs to take a decent step forward this year in both shooting percentage and defense if he's going to even be a good 6th man in this league. He's a fringe rotation player at the moment that has gotten a lot of play because he was drafted #5.

[JRoy]

Ivey/THJ to Portland for Anfernee Simons? That might work well for both sides

Doesn’t work for POR. Not interested in another young guard, especially one without a clear role.

Don’t think POR and DET are good trading partners at this time as we are both terrible and have largely the same needs.

DET at least has a #1 guy in Cade. POR doesn’t even have that.

[Canadafan]

https://pistonpowered.com/posts/detroit-pistons-player-most-likely-trade-rumors-next-season

Nothing new or anything. Just if anyone wanted a little reading material

[Spider156]

Ivey is an odd duck. There was definitely some conversation around him being a top 3 pick and how much potential he had, blah blah blah. Didn't like the fit, but understood the "upside" with the pick. Then his value got oddly conflated during the year when Cade was out and some people actually wondered out loud if he was better than Cade. Laughable.

I just think he's one of these dudes that has "talent" but doesn't contribute to winning basketball. Yeah, he's got the pedigree and a history with the city and there are lots of reasons to think it *could* work, but those are all external motivators or factors we attempt to superimpose. On the court, the guy is not a good fit and I'm personally skeptical that he becomes anything more than a 6th man. There are just too many holes for the way the game is currently being played.

And yeah, on a personal note I'm not a fan of some of the off-court comments. It's all personal stuff and I want to be respectful of that, but the way he handles it makes me leary.

But I hope I'm wrong.

Agree with everything said here. I was a big hater of Ivey by the middle of the season and by the end of the season seeing Ausar Stewart Grimes and so many others sit out while he played made me change my mind about him. I’ve always believed availability is a very valuable skill and is underrated. Ivey is here to stay so long as he accepts a backup PG role much like Sexton did for the Cavs. I don’t think he’s a lost cause. I honestly think Ausar is a lost cause. I was SHOCKED by how bad his shooting AND scoring was last year and to put a blood clot on top of that? Oh man. Fans here have no idea how close he is to leaving professional sports not just from an on court performance perspective but also health perspective. Only good news left for Ausar is he can shoot the corner 3. I diagnose blood clots every week gentlemen, I got bad news for you. His career is over at any given day for the rest of his days in the NBA.

[Mr Peanut]

Ivey is an odd duck. There was definitely some conversation around him being a top 3 pick and how much potential he had, blah blah blah. Didn't like the fit, but understood the "upside" with the pick. Then his value got oddly conflated during the year when Cade was out and some people actually wondered out loud if he was better than Cade. Laughable.

I just think he's one of these dudes that has "talent" but doesn't contribute to winning basketball. Yeah, he's got the pedigree and a history with the city and there are lots of reasons to think it *could* work, but those are all external motivators or factors we attempt to superimpose. On the court, the guy is not a good fit and I'm personally skeptical that he becomes anything more than a 6th man. There are just too many holes for the way the game is currently being played.

And yeah, on a personal note I'm not a fan of some of the off-court comments. It's all personal stuff and I want to be respectful of that, but the way he handles it makes me leary.

But I hope I'm wrong.

Agree with everything said here. I was a big hater of Ivey by the middle of the season and by the end of the season seeing Ausar Stewart Grimes and so many others sit out while he played made me change my mind about him. I’ve always believed availability is a very valuable skill and is underrated. Ivey is here to stay so long as he accepts a backup PG role much like Sexton did for the Cavs. I don’t think he’s a lost cause. I honestly think Ausar is a lost cause. I was SHOCKED by how bad his shooting AND scoring was last year and to put a blood clot on top of that? Oh man. Fans here have no idea how close he is to leaving professional sports not just from an on court performance perspective but also health perspective. Only good news left for Ausar is he can shoot the corner 3. I diagnose blood clots every week gentlemen, I got bad news for you. His career is over at any given day for the rest of his days in the NBA.

I'm sure you'd be aware it's difficult to speculate on his long-term outlook given the relative dearth of information provided i.e. provoked vs unprovoked, limb DVT vs PE etc. For all we know it could have been a non-occlusive thrombus in a distal vein and the medical staff were just being very cautious. Those key pieces of information are obviously the difference between a Chris Bosh/Christian Koloko vs Brandon Ingram career trajectory.

Definitely a "blood clot" diagnosis is always cause for concern but it could well be a singular event in his lifetime (as it is for the majority of people who suffer a DVT/PE).

[Spider156]

Ivey is an odd duck. There was definitely some conversation around him being a top 3 pick and how much potential he had, blah blah blah. Didn't like the fit, but understood the "upside" with the pick. Then his value got oddly conflated during the year when Cade was out and some people actually wondered out loud if he was better than Cade. Laughable.

I just think he's one of these dudes that has "talent" but doesn't contribute to winning basketball. Yeah, he's got the pedigree and a history with the city and there are lots of reasons to think it *could* work, but those are all external motivators or factors we attempt to superimpose. On the court, the guy is not a good fit and I'm personally skeptical that he becomes anything more than a 6th man. There are just too many holes for the way the game is currently being played.

And yeah, on a personal note I'm not a fan of some of the off-court comments. It's all personal stuff and I want to be respectful of that, but the way he handles it makes me leary.

But I hope I'm wrong.

Agree with everything said here. I was a big hater of Ivey by the middle of the season and by the end of the season seeing Ausar Stewart Grimes and so many others sit out while he played made me change my mind about him. I’ve always believed availability is a very valuable skill and is underrated. Ivey is here to stay so long as he accepts a backup PG role much like Sexton did for the Cavs. I don’t think he’s a lost cause. I honestly think Ausar is a lost cause. I was SHOCKED by how bad his shooting AND scoring was last year and to put a blood clot on top of that? Oh man. Fans here have no idea how close he is to leaving professional sports not just from an on court performance perspective but also health perspective. Only good news left for Ausar is he can shoot the corner 3. I diagnose blood clots every week gentlemen, I got bad news for you. His career is over at any given day for the rest of his days in the NBA.

I'm sure you'd be aware it's difficult to speculate on his long-term outlook given the relative dearth of information provided i.e. provoked vs unprovoked, limb DVT vs PE etc. For all we know it could have been a non-occlusive thrombus in a distal vein and the medical staff were just being very cautious. Those key pieces of information are obviously the difference between a Chris Bosh/Christian Koloko vs Brandon Ingram career trajectory.

Definitely a "blood clot" diagnosis is always cause for concern but it could well be a singular event in his lifetime (as it is for the majority of people who suffer a DVT/PE).

To me I see recurrent flights as the problem and the provocation. Something tells me it’s familial history that’s undiagnosed. I’ve seen too many recurrence in blood clots. They don’t treat superficial veins and it doesn’t matter where it was found if it was a DVT. Also do we even know if it’s a DVT? I’m thinking it’s pulmonary embolism because they said asthma initially. You put all that together and yeah any day his career can be over. In my opinion they should start prophylaxis for every flight whether subq heparin, bike riding, or lovenox or even SCDs. Hes way too young to be getting a blood clot specially for someone as active as he is. I didn’t say it was likely, it’s as likely as the general population maybe a little more because of the recurrent flights and because of now the history of a DVT. So you take it for what it is, you can’t deny his career can be over any given day for the rest of his career whether now or 10 years from now.