Backup PG Spot: Devonte Graham

[the_l_train]

He's no point guard.

…he definitely is though. 6 foot 1…and when you Google his name it says “American Point Guard”.

Not a traditional pass first point guard, but still a point guard. He was solid for the Hornets 5 years ago (averaged 18 & 7)….was a respectable 3 point threat. Figure too small to be a decent defender but maybe better option than forcing Sasser to be something he’s not.

Speaking of being listed as a Point Guard, Marcus Sasser himself is listed as a Point Guard. As are many other players who really aren't. It means nothing. Graham is a chucker.

I said Google has him listed as an "American point guard" ---- they have Sasser as "American guard", because he is. Like you said, means nothing and splitting hairs.

Just saying we need another point guard on this team....preferably someone who has ran an NBA offense before. I like Sasser as much as anyone, but 99% of people would agree he is better as an off guard.

Cade is injury prone. From what we've seen so far, Ivey will see most of his time at shooting guard. Ausar's status is up in the air, and Sasser is what he is. PG is clearly a position of need, even if we have to get a "chucker" --- having an older player with irrational confidence and experience is not necessarily a bad thing....people out there want THJ to get minutes, and he is the definition of a chucker...I'd argue Devonte would help this team right now more than THJ.

**** hits the fan when we have to start playing Dannis Jenkins or Wendell Moore because one or two of our "young legs" happens to get hurt. Graham is no question a better option than those 2....once again, If not Graham, what better "veteran" PG options do we have out there?

(Fultz doesn't count, we are stretching Vinson thin enough as it is...)

[SuperBad]

We just need another PG who can take over long minutes if Cade gets hurt, there should 2-3 coming available in the next week

[TPA]

Worry not, friends. Daniss Jenkins has been signed to a 2-way contract.

[Crymson]

…he definitely is though. 6 foot 1…and when you Google his name it says “American Point Guard”.

Not a traditional pass first point guard, but still a point guard. He was solid for the Hornets 5 years ago (averaged 18 & 7)….was a respectable 3 point threat. Figure too small to be a decent defender but maybe better option than forcing Sasser to be something he’s not.

He's a point guard by size. It would be better to say that he's not a viable lead handler, and the guy you're looking for is a viable lead handler.

I'd rather roll with Jenkins than Graham, and Jenkins is absolutely a two-way-caliber talent at this point.

[chrbal]

…he definitely is though. 6 foot 1…and when you Google his name it says “American Point Guard”.

Not a traditional pass first point guard, but still a point guard. He was solid for the Hornets 5 years ago (averaged 18 & 7)….was a respectable 3 point threat. Figure too small to be a decent defender but maybe better option than forcing Sasser to be something he’s not.

Speaking of being listed as a Point Guard, Marcus Sasser himself is listed as a Point Guard. As are many other players who really aren't. It means nothing. Graham is a chucker.

I said Google has him listed as an "American point guard" ---- they have Sasser as "American guard", because he is. Like you said, means nothing and splitting hairs.

Just saying we need another point guard on this team....preferably someone who has ran an NBA offense before. I like Sasser as much as anyone, but 99% of people would agree he is better as an off guard.

Cade is injury prone. From what we've seen so far, Ivey will see most of his time at shooting guard. Ausar's status is up in the air, and Sasser is what he is. PG is clearly a position of need, even if we have to get a "chucker" --- having an older player with irrational confidence and experience is not necessarily a bad thing....people out there want THJ to get minutes, and he is the definition of a chucker...I'd argue Devonte would help this team right now more than THJ.

**** hits the fan when we have to start playing Dannis Jenkins or Wendell Moore because one or two of our "young legs" happens to get hurt. Graham is no question a better option than those 2....once again, If not Graham, what better "veteran" PG options do we have out there?

(Fultz doesn't count, we are stretching Vinson thin enough as it is...)

For the role needed, I think you offer Graham, Fultz or whoever an opportunity to play for our g league team and see if they can build themselves up a little bit. At this point, if you’re trying to add a pg or c to your roster, they’re only better than the younger players because they have experience. Graham is a tank commander who lives on the 3 point line, has a solid assist to turnover ratio, but doesn’t bring much else. Fultz, you’re just hoping he remembers some of what made him a number one overall pick somehow

[the_l_train]

He's a point guard by size. It would be better to say that he's not a viable lead handler, and the guy you're looking for is a viable lead handler.

I'd rather roll with Jenkins than Graham, and Jenkins is absolutely a two-way-caliber talent at this point.

Hey we can agree to disagree on this one, but have fun with (checks notes again for spelling…) DANISS JENKINS.

Is Horace Jenkins available??

[BadMofoPimp]

Do the Pistons really want a CoJo level player?

[Crymson]

Hey we can agree to disagree on this one, but have fun with (checks notes again for spelling…) DANISS JENKINS.

Is Horace Jenkins available??

Graham being an ineffectual lead guard isn't a matter of opinion. He's terrible at attacking the rim and cannot break down defenses, so his playmaking is highly situational. He's overall dreadful at scoring in the interior. He used to be a dangerous perimeter shooter, but not anymore. To make matters worse for his overall value, he's an awful defender thanks to a combination of being a shrimp and having bad defensive acumen.

The above is why he's likely to be without an NBA job this season.

[the_l_train]

Hey we can agree to disagree on this one, but have fun with (checks notes again for spelling…) DANISS JENKINS.

Is Horace Jenkins available??

Graham being an ineffectual lead guard isn't a matter of opinion. He's terrible at attacking the rim and cannot break down defenses, so his playmaking is highly situational. He's overall dreadful at scoring in the interior. He used to be a dangerous perimeter shooter, but not anymore. To make matters worse for his overall value, he's an awful defender thanks to a combination of being a shrimp and having bad defensive acumen.

The above is why he's likely to be without an NBA job this season.

Great, now why is Daniss a better option…the point guards available right now are all going to have their flaws. We can poke holes in them all, but from watching preseason I don’t recall Daniss “breaking down defenses” or locking anyone down…

Would I be ecstatic with a Devonte Graham or even a Malachi Flynn? NO!!…but more so than relying on a young shooting guard to play PG or going with a completely unproven guy.

Having a veteran PG on this team to help fill that void is clearly a need for us right now…and not sure how anyone can deny this. Again, if Graham is not ideal, who is?

[Crymson]

Great, now why is Daniss a better option…the point guards available right now are all going to have their flaws. We can poke holes in them all, but from watching preseason I don’t recall Daniss “breaking down defenses” or locking anyone down…

Because we already know that Graham is bad for the job. While Jenkins is unlikely to be better, I'd rather see what a young player can provide rather than go with an ineffectual veteran.

Having a veteran PG on this team to help fill that void is clearly a need for us right now…and not sure how anyone can deny this. Again, if Graham is not ideal, who is?

The sort of veteran point guard you're looking for does not currently exist on the free agent market. That's the prevailing fact here. There's nobody who's ideal, and the available options -- Graham included -- are so far from ideal that they're effectively pointless. Graham can't lead an offense and he can't defend. Fultz can attack the rim and he's a decent passer, but he can't shoot and he's constantly injured. DSJ can defend and pass, but he's genuinely not much better than Killian Hayes as a scorer. Flynn was bad even by the standards of last season's roster while it was in the midst of a deliberate tank late in the season.

Not a single one of them will provide what you're seeking.

[chrbal]

Great, now why is Daniss a better option…the point guards available right now are all going to have their flaws. We can poke holes in them all, but from watching preseason I don’t recall Daniss “breaking down defenses” or locking anyone down…

[/quote]

At this point you sign a guy like Graham, Smith Jr, or Fultz because you’re either dealing with a major injury to another player or they’ve agreed to join your g league team to keep themselves around. The “improvement” is only in the fact that they’re veterans, it won’t be significant in their play as a 3rd/4th string pg.

You don’t need Daniss to break down defenses, you need him to practice against NBA talents and get playing time at the g league level. And if we get to a point where we have to sign a guy like Fultz, it’s not like they’re going to save the season. We’d be lucky if they just play effectively.

I was on the “why don’t we sign Graham” mindset for a while, but all he really brings is an ok placeholder who can shoot 3s effectively and has a good career assist to turnover ratio.
But 336 games/171 starts in to his career, you know what he is and he doesn’t really help enough to have him lock down a spot. Fultz is too injury prone to do so and he can’t shoot AT ALL. Dennis Smith jr is ok ish. But he also can’t shoot, which is something we would need out of him. He might be the “best” of the 3, but that’s not a compliment

[the_l_train]

Given the flaws of everyone available, I would go with Dennis Smith Jr. He can at least defend.

[Invictus88]

Killian is available too....



Sorry, I couldn't resist

[chrbal]

Killian is available too....



Sorry, I couldn't resist

That would break this board. Even if it was a ten day or they signed him to the G league.

It would be bad enough if he ever had a fluke game, think Flynn last season, for another team. If we brought him back, Pistons fans would have their version of the Millen man March for the Lions years ago

[Crymson]

Given the flaws of everyone available, I would go with Dennis Smith Jr. He can at least defend.

He can't shoot, which makes him a no-go from square one. He's a truly awful scorer overall.

There's nobody available who would serve the role you've stipulated. Simply being a veteran NBA point guard does not imbue DSJ with any inherent value. He's out of the league for a reason.

Killian is available too....



Sorry, I couldn't resist

Dealing with the years of apologetics for a player who was clearly horrible -- we're talking worst player in the league to have gotten significant minutes across each of the past four seasons -- was second only to his actual play on the court in annoyance factor.

[pistons4ever]

Pat Beverly would have been perfect

[Mr Peanut]

What happens if two of Cade, Ivey and Sasser are out in the same game? Very conceivable scenario during a long season. Could even be a situation where that's the case for 5+ games. Who do we turn to to run the point then?

Not that I'm saying Devonte Graham is the answer. But right now we have no answer.

[Billl]

What happens if two of Cade, Ivey and Sasser are out in the same game? Very conceivable scenario during a long season. Could even be a situation where that's the case for 5+ games. Who do we turn to to run the point then?

Not that I'm saying Devonte Graham is the answer. But right now we have no answer.

If cade and ivey are out for an extended period, nothing matters. This is a developmental season where the young guys are supposed to start learning how to win. It's not a season where we are scrapping to win every possible game for playoff seeding.