#15 - Pistons@Wizards - 6pm ET

[ComboGuardCity]

Monty Williams should be so embarrassed watching this. Like legitimately he should never get another job after this start.

[GreekAlex]

Ivey had a lot of haters on the board.

Anyone ready to eat crow yet?

I'll take a small plate for sure. I did NOT think Cade/Ivey would work out, but was willing to wait.

It now looks like a crazy duo, teams are gonna have a huge problem trying to guard.

Monty "Sabotage" Williams really screwed both the Pistons, and Ivey over last season.

You definitely weren’t the worst or loudest.

I got more annoyed be the posters that wanted to trade him for random scrubs.

I wish there was a list of all the bums that posters wanted to trade Ivey for. lol

[Phenomenonsense]

Ivey gets some quality increases to peoples opinion of him due to the eye test, how fast he is, and ultimately that gives him a very high ceiling, but as someone already pointed out, bro is just producing at an average to below average rate for a starter at his position at this time. Some of this positivity towards Ivey is warranted and exciting, especially with him playing next to Cade, but I think a large portion of peoples excitement is seeing a "only slightly below average starter" next to cade on this team lmao.

[Mr Peanut]

Wizards just lost their 8th straight game. At this point it's like "don't be that team".

[Uncle Mxy]

Ivey gets some quality increases to peoples opinion of him due to the eye test, how fast he is, and ultimately that gives him a very high ceiling, but as someone already pointed out, bro is just producing at an average to below average rate for a starter at his position at this time. Some of this positivity towards Ivey is warranted and exciting, especially with him playing next to Cade, but I think a large portion of peoples excitement is seeing a "only slightly below average starter" next to cade on this team lmao.

For anyone who's super-high on Ivey, how much do we pay him? I'm in the "trade Ivey at peak value" camp. While I think he has his moments, and certainly has an elite first step, he won't be worth tying up a stupid amount of money/cap over.

[Kalamazoo317]

Ivey had a lot of haters on the board.

Anyone ready to eat crow yet?

Ivey played poorly last year. He's playing well this year.

[bstein14]

Ivey had a lot of haters on the board.

Anyone ready to eat crow yet?

Ivey played poorly last year. He's playing well this year.

Yes he literally was outplayed by Marcus Sasser last season, but Ivey has taken a step forward this year and has been playing much better but he's still below average for a starter... which is fine he's still a young rookie in his third year if he can get to average starter by year four for us that would be another huge step forward. Increasing efficiency and reducing TOs are two things he needs to do.

I will say there were times earlier this year if felt like coach was starting to go to him a lot in late quarter situations and he was always making the wrong play and not scoring but lately I feel more and more confidant with the ball in his hands to end a quarter

[bstein14]

Wizards just lost their 8th straight game. At this point it's like "don't be that team".

Someone needs to give Kuzma a taste of his own medicine.... but the reality is its unlikely they or any team anytime soon loses 20+ in a row like we did.

[GreekAlex]

Ivey had a lot of haters on the board.

Anyone ready to eat crow yet?

Ivey played poorly last year. He's playing well this year.

That’s a little bit of an oversimplification.

I’m not suggesting that he was beyond criticism last season but lots of posters were ready to trade him for scrubs and acting like he showed some fatal flaw in his game.

It was hard for me to understand how most of the board believed that Monty was creating a horrible situation but couldn’t see how that would impact a second year guard.

[NYPiston]

Monty Williams should be so embarrassed watching this. Like legitimately he should never get another job after this start.

The Pistons lost a valuable development year because of that clown, actively sabotaged the team because he had no interest in coaching. I wish it was in this draft year not last year that they had the Monty year but the stink seems to be eradicated so we'll take it.

[zeebneeb]

Ivey had a lot of haters on the board.

Anyone ready to eat crow yet?

Ivey played poorly last year. He's playing well this year.

Yes he literally was outplayed by Marcus Sasser last season, but Ivey has taken a step forward this year and has been playing much better but he's still below average for a starter... which is fine he's still a young rookie in his third year if he can get to average starter by year four for us that would be another huge step forward. Increasing efficiency and reducing TOs are two things he needs to do.

I will say there were times earlier this year if felt like coach was starting to go to him a lot in late quarter situations and he was always making the wrong play and not scoring but lately I feel more and more confidant with the ball in his hands to end a quarter

This is exactly how I feel. The reason I didn't think the Cade/Ivey duo would work, seems to be the exact reason they are working, which, for the moment, is blowing my mind.(complete opposites)

Teams whole defenses are setup to stop, or greatly hinder Cade anytime he has the ball in his hands. He is the Pistons linchpin. The reason why I believe I feel so confident in Ivey when he has the ball, is that his game is so damn different, that you have to build a completely different defense to stop Ivey. This has to be incredibly difficult to do, when both are on the floor at the same time, as they attack the basket in completely different manners, thus Ivey at the end of a quarter, almost having a free lane.

Just as an example, think about a pick and roll with Ivey/Duren VS Cade/Duren. The same players, have to defend an explosive first step, get to the cup, vs a slithery, work his way to basket, semi-post up, lob, or mid-range player. This is the reason, even with the stupid amount of turnovers, I believe the Pistons are having success.(besides the crazy defensive effort now on display every night)

The production of the teams two starting guards are nuts. (Here is a comparison)

Mitchell/Garland

Points-46.0
Rebounds-6.8
Assist-11.1
Steals-2.7
Blocks-0.6
Turns-4.8

Cade/Ivey

Point-42.0
Rebounds-11.9
Assists-12.9
Steals-1.8
Blocks-1.6
Turns-7.9

When you also take into account that they are a jumbo backcourt, well, we could be witnessing the beginning of something, very, very, special.

Fingers crossed.

[VicVinegar]

Ivey gets some quality increases to peoples opinion of him due to the eye test, how fast he is, and ultimately that gives him a very high ceiling, but as someone already pointed out, bro is just producing at an average to below average rate for a starter at his position at this time. Some of this positivity towards Ivey is warranted and exciting, especially with him playing next to Cade, but I think a large portion of peoples excitement is seeing a "only slightly below average starter" next to cade on this team lmao.

What do you expect? People want something to root for. They've averaged 19 wins a year for the last five seasons. If you eat a turd sandwich every day of your life, and then you eat McDonalds, it's going to seem like a Michelin star restaurant by comparison. No one here is saying Ivey is an all star, but having someone finally competent at guard is a refreshing change of pace.

[Kalamazoo317]

Next big question is whether Holland can gel with that Cade/Ivey dynamic longterm.

[Phenomenonsense]

Ivey gets some quality increases to peoples opinion of him due to the eye test, how fast he is, and ultimately that gives him a very high ceiling, but as someone already pointed out, bro is just producing at an average to below average rate for a starter at his position at this time. Some of this positivity towards Ivey is warranted and exciting, especially with him playing next to Cade, but I think a large portion of peoples excitement is seeing a "only slightly below average starter" next to cade on this team lmao.

What do you expect? People want something to root for. They've averaged 19 wins a year for the last five seasons. If you eat a turd sandwich every day of your life, and then you eat McDonalds, it's going to seem like a Michelin star restaurant by comparison. No one here is saying Ivey is an all star, but having someone finally competent at guard is a refreshing change of pace.

I mean, I am just tempering expectations and reacting to people calling for "eating crow." I'm as excited as anyone to have Ivey even if I was hoping for Murray. I've just also been here, eating **** sandwiches for years, and along the way I'm tired of people finding favorite nuggets of **** within the sandwich and talking them up lol.