Will the Pistons be .500 at any point this season?

[DetroitSho]

We'll see! Fwiw y'all can say that Harris and THJ just happened to start playing better once Ivey went out, but I'm assuming they also have higher offensive usage and are being more aggressive with him out, which is contributing to that.

One thing I know for sure is that by the numbers we played better with Beasley or Ausar on the floor instead of Ivey *while* Ivey was healthy.

I'm not sure Ivey would make or break how we do over the next 10 games.

They didn't start playing better when Ivey went out. They were already trending up and then Ivey went out. And yeah 2 guys playing good and shooting better getting more shots mean more made shots. Oh, what a revelation.

Like, are we seriously forgetting the bricks both these guys were putting up for a stretch? Tobias is actually (from the eyes test) nailing 3s as good as he has all season. That has nothing to do with Ivey being out as he was getting plenty wide open opportunities before. Same with THJ. They've both been sizzling from 3 the last 10 games, THJ the last 15, which includes Ivey.

And yes, not having adequate ballhandling to spell Cade at times can and will be our make or break point. I'm not shocked with this commentary tho, we love throwing people away for the new flavor of the month.

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Cade haters have to have somebody new to dump on and Ivey can't defend himself on the court until next year. A little revisionist history to make the story plausible helps too.

That's an extremely annoying characteristic of this board. Find the next whipping boy, or the next person to downplay their contributions.

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[bstein14]

To say that it doesn't appear we're missing Ivey much at the moment because he one of the worst defenders on the team, is a higher usage player that isn't as efficient scoring as some of the guys now getting his shots isn't really finding a "whipping boy" its merely stating the opinion that it doesn't appear like we're missing Ivey very much. Ivey was 100% a very negative impact player last year and he's taken big steps forward this season in shooting and he's improved his defense... but he still is pretty obviously a young below average starter in this league. I still think he has a pretty high potential as a player with his athleticism and reported work ethic but that doesn't mean I have to think we're going to be much worse off this season without him if most of his minutes and FGAs go to guys like THJ, Tobias, Cade, Beasley and even Ausar/Holland. I think we're going to be fine without him honestly not having Ausar's athleticism, defense, energy, etc probably hurt us more in the early season than what we're going to miss from Ivey.... Don't get me wrong, if one of Cade (especially) or THJ or Beasley gets hurt then we're really going to miss Ivey's depth more but at the moment if everyone else is healthy I think its a fine take to feel like we won't miss Ivey much.

Ivey was playing really well before getting injured he was really playing his best ball of the season the 5 games prior including shooting 62.5% from three point land his last 3 games with us. If he was going to continue playing as well as he was just before getting injured its a noticeable loss but if you're talking about the average of what he's been all year I think we're fine without him.

[Kalamazoo317]

We'll see! Fwiw y'all can say that Harris and THJ just happened to start playing better once Ivey went out, but I'm assuming they also have higher offensive usage and are being more aggressive with him out, which is contributing to that.

One thing I know for sure is that by the numbers we played better with Beasley or Ausar on the floor instead of Ivey *while* Ivey was healthy.

I'm not sure Ivey would make or break how we do over the next 10 games.

They didn't start playing better when Ivey went out. They were already trending up and then Ivey went out. And yeah 2 guys playing good and shooting better getting more shots mean more made shots. Oh, what a revelation.

Like, are we seriously forgetting the bricks both these guys were putting up for a stretch? Tobias is actually (from the eyes test) nailing 3s as good as he has all season. That has nothing to do with Ivey being out as he was getting plenty wide open opportunities before. Same with THJ. They've both been sizzling from 3 the last 10 games, THJ the last 15, which includes Ivey.

And yes, not having adequate ballhandling to spell Cade at times can and will be our make or break point. I'm not shocked with this commentary tho, we love throwing people away for the new flavor of the month.

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Cade haters have to have somebody new to dump on and Ivey can't defend himself on the court until next year. A little revisionist history to make the story plausible helps too.

Check my post history. I've never been a Cade hater. I've always been dubious on Ivey (and will likely be until he gets more solid at defense). I did say earlier in the season that he's made strides in terms of his shot and how he complements Cade.

I think it's lame how quickly a conversation about a player and where he's at turns into personal sniping about posters. I've been a huge fan of this team and consistent poster during their down times and remain so now. I watch every game. If you don't care for my opinion, feel free to ignore it.

I will say in terms of ballhandling, that *with Ivey healthy* we need another ball handler. Ivey isn't that amazing at it. He still makes a lot of bad turnovers. I wouldn't say he's a significantly better ball handler than Sasser. He's just way better at getting to the rim.

I want Ivey to be good. I'm rooting for him. He's a Piston. He's made some strides this year. He still has a long way to go, especially with consistency. But I'm not going to turn off my brain and just declare every player to be awesome all the time despite what I see on the court. Does that make me a hater, or just someone who actually watches the game and thinks about what I see?

[tmorgan]

Yeah, I Don”t in any way “hate” Ivey, either. But his turnovers per touch are even worse than Cade’s, and that’s one of Cade’s biggest issues. I’d still prefer Ivey healthy, but if we’re being honest, his minutes going to Beasley and THJ isn’t hurting us. Sasser’s minutes probably does hurt in comparison, but hey, silver lining, he could use development time, too.

There was a T&T board suggesting trading Ivey (and a first, lolz) for Cam Johnson. That’s a horrible idea. I’m not sacrificing Ivey’s potentially bright future for that. But he does need time. We saw some progress this season, that’s good. It doesn’t mean he’s a more positive impact player than Beas or Timmy right now, though. Those guys have been all we could have asked for and then some.

[Kalamazoo317]

Yeah, one positive for development that I've seen lately is Ausar getting more on ball reps in Ivey's absence. If he can start to develop some more halfcourt offensive game, that'll be really big for us.

[DetroitSho]

Yeah, so the thing about the take, "we don't miss xyz player" or "maybe xyz player was holding us back", it's never accompanied by actual context. That's what's so irritating.

You guys say there's more opportunities for guys like Beasley, THJ and Tobias so we haven't missed Ivey. I contend that Tobias and THJ were playing like absolute ASS with plenty of opportunities before Ivey got hurt. Them actually playing above average basketball has just helped to offset his loss. I mean, yeah sure, just get rid of a guy giving you 17 ppg while shooting 41% from 3 and puts the most pressure on the defense attacking the rim. No big deal.

Ivey got hurt January 1st, I think it's a fair comparison to look at guys in December and in January. Beasley is averaging all of 2 more minutes he's shooting LESS shots. But he's hitting 45.5% of his 3s as opposed to 34.7% in December. THJ has seen a minute increase of 5 minutes, which is decently significant. He's taking 3 more shots per game now. He's increased from 3, from 37.5% to 44.7%. Tobias Harris is actually seeing close to 5 more minutes per game. He's only shooting 1.5 more shots a game, but he's gone from 34.3% from 3 in December to 48.4% in January. All those wide open bricked 3s he had before, he's now making them.

There was a Tobias trade thread created December 24th. It was the day after he had just gone 3-10 against the Lakers (in a win, by the way). 2 games before that he'd gone 3-13 in that terrible Utah loss. Not long before that, Quinten Grimes' name had started coming up in discussions around THJ's production. Both of these guys are getting just about the same amount of opportunities (THJ a decent bump up). They've just decided to pull their head out their asses, mostly Tobias, which helps when your #2 goes down. We're not better without Ivey. We're better when we have 5 competent players on the court, instead of 2-3 at given times.

There's a lack of emotional intelligence on this board as just less than a month ago it was a debate on what bag of chips we'd accept for Tobias and now people are not wanting to trade any of the top 12. These emotional swings are exhausting. And THAT'S what I'm attacking here as it's now happening at the expense of Ivey.

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[Kalamazoo317]

I just said I didn't think we were going to miss him that much and that I believe we can win just fine without him. I think a lot of the emotional swings you're having right now are self-inflicted.

[DetroitSho]

I just said I didn't think we were going to miss him that much and that I believe we can win just fine without him. I think a lot of the emotional swings you're having right now are self-inflicted.

Or how about this, if the shoe fits...... Sound familiar at all?

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[Kalamazoo317]

I just said I didn't think we were going to miss him that much and that I believe we can win just fine without him. I think a lot of the emotional swings you're having right now are self-inflicted.

Or how about this, if the shoe fits...... Sound familiar at all?

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No. I honestly have no idea what you're on about now

[bstein14]

Ausar has gotten more minutes in January as well he's shooting 42.9% from three in 6 games this month and he's been a big reason as to why we've been winning. I think he's without a doubt a top 5 player on this team when it comes to importance to winning/losing out there and we were missing him to start the season. His energy/defense/hustle is infectious for sure

[DetroitSho]

I just said I didn't think we were going to miss him that much and that I believe we can win just fine without him. I think a lot of the emotional swings you're having right now are self-inflicted.

Or how about this, if the shoe fits...... Sound familiar at all?

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No. I honestly have no idea what you're on about now

Move around then, it must not be for you.

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[DetroitSho]

Ausar has gotten more minutes in January as well he's shooting 42.9% from three in 6 games this month and he's been a big reason as to why we've been winning. I think he's without a doubt a top 5 player on this team when it comes to importance to winning/losing out there and we were missing him to start the season. His energy/defense/hustle is infectious for sure

THIS! Another great piece of context on this team playing well. Ausar is absolutely ridiculous with his impact on the court.

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[tmorgan]

I see this as a big issue moving forward. I love both Ausar and Holland. Those two, like Stew, are defensive intimidators, full of grit. Every NBA title we’ve won has been on the back of defense and grit. It’s Detroit’s identity.

But you gotta be able to shoot in the NBA today. If those two become average shooters, everyone develops and we add one marquee player, we’re probably a legit contender. Odds are, though, at least one of them is going to continue to struggle with open jumpers and wreck our spacing. Holland is more likely to figure it out, but Ausar is the more impact defender. How this does or doesn’t unfold is going to have a massive impact on the future of the team.

Nice to have the most important piece already in place, though. Culture-setting, half court maestros that want to lead your city back to the promised land don’t grow on trees. The T&T Board has just started the semi-annual top 25 trade value project again, and I’m guessing Cade ends up in the 15-20 range. Feels good. And that’ll likely be selling him short in a year or two.

[Kalamazoo317]

Ausar has gotten more minutes in January as well he's shooting 42.9% from three in 6 games this month and he's been a big reason as to why we've been winning. I think he's without a doubt a top 5 player on this team when it comes to importance to winning/losing out there and we were missing him to start the season. His energy/defense/hustle is infectious for sure

Totally agree. I think the top six players on the team in terms of importance to winning are probably:

Cade
Beasley
Tobias
Stew
THJ
Ausar

Not sure on the order other than Cade #1

[Kalamazoo317]

I believe in the development of both Holland and Ausar as shooters

[bstein14]

Just watched a few great youtube videos on Ausar thus far this season. Advanced metrics have him in the 99th percentile as a defender. He's 3rd in deflections per 36 (behind only Dyson Daniels and Alex Caruso) and he's holding opposing players to 10% less than their average FG% when he guards them. He's not played a ton but if he continues to start and gets his overall minutes up to 24+ MPG he should start getting more and more all-defensive team chatter.

Cade + Ivey + THJ + Tobias + Duren = -2.1 Net rating (21 games played together)
Cade + Ausar + THJ + Tobias + Duren = +8.7 Net rating (9 games played together)

Ausar just fits in super well with the starters with what he brings to the table.