What if our GM gets fired? Replacement?

[Pharaoh]

From the Suns board

The long-held internal hope that popular former Suns player Grant Hill, who plans on retiring, will patch up a strained relationship with Babby, his former agent, and return as GM has been resuscitated. Suns Ring of Honor member Charles Barkley has expressed hopes of being a GM and met Sarver for the first time this year, but the organization could not compete with his TNT salary.

Grant Hill... GM... of the Suns? Just doesn't seem right, does it?

LMAO @ the Suns not being able to compete with Barkley's TNT salary... would Gores want Barkley?

You never know

There will be widespread interest and the list could run the gamut from a top past candidate like Milwaukee assistant GM Jeff Weltman to people with local ties like Tony Ronzone (USA Basketball scouting director and Dallas player personnel director), Eddie Johnson (Suns analyst) and David Griffin (Cleveland vice president of basketball operations) to experienced, out-of-work GMs like David Morway (Indiana fame) and Mark Warkentien (Denver)

Does anyone remember Ronzone from his time in Detroit? I do believe he was an international scout for us back in the day and his biggest claim to fame while with us is the 2003 Draft!

Apparently Griffin used to work for the Suns in some capacity... got them Joe Johnson, Amare, Marion... obviously has an eye for talent

[Piston Pete]

^^^Of those guys, only Ronzone catches my eye - mostly because he's paid his dues and has Piston's ties already. If Dumars stays thru this season, maybe he's on Gores' short list to replace him?

[Joe Berry]

Isiah for GM! no...wait, just kidding, Weaver and Hinkie sound like capable guys.

The time for former players running basketball teams is over, hire the guys who can use advanced stats and proved themselves as assistant GMs in this league.

[Pharaoh]

in all honesty I've used this thread as a spot to add info about guys I've never really heard of

Didn't know Hickie or McDonough or Zarren before looking at the options...

So even if we don't fire Joe (seems unlikely now) I've at least learnt a thing or 2

[Joe Berry]

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nba/208702/ryan-mcdonough-in-as-new-phoenix-suns-gm
Ryan McDonough, formerly an assistant GM with the Celtics, has been hired as GM of the Suns.
With previous reports indicating McDonough was the favorite, we're not very surprised. McDonough will have his work cut out for him in the desert, and radio host John Gambadoro reported that the new general manager is very unlikely to keep current head coach Lindsey Hunter on the sidelines. It's a smart hire by the Suns. McDonough will be officially introduced on Thursday.

McDonough is off the market, damn good job Suns...and we still have to deal with Joe D

[Pharaoh]

well, obviously Kilo picked a good guy... he just got hired!

IF this McDonough is like the other stat geeks that are running teams around the league Phoenix will tank next season...

might be some trade options there for Joe to explore... if Phil Jackson lets him

Personally I'll be watching what happens with the Suns... the guy seemed like a great candidate.

[Kilo]

PHX could be a wildcard in the draft in front of us as well. Though I assume they'll be hot for Porter.

[Joe Berry]

wojo:

Sixers hired former Rockets assistant GM Sam Hinkie to be their new general manager.
Philadelphia, meet analytics. After suffering through years of old-school roster building that led to disastrous moves such as Elton Brand, Evan Turner and Andrew Bynum, the Sixers have brought in one of the game's sharper analytical minds. Hinkie has learned at the foot of dominant Rockets GM Daryl Morey for four years, and will now have the final say on all basketball decisions with the Sixers. It's a hire that should breathe some life into a franchise that hasn't truly been relevant since Allen Iverson began his decline a decade ago. Tony DiLeo is out and Rod Thorn will likely join Doug Collins in some kind of consulting role.

Hanging onto Dumars will be Gores biggest mistake, other franchises are moving forward.

[Goldtop]

^You know Gores did bring Phil Jackson into the front office?

Phil is a heck of a lot better than those assistant guys mentioned here. I have no complaints. As long as we keep him, both he and Dumars can stay.

[Kilo]

I think Jackson is just biding his time here to see the Seattle/Sacto situation play out.

[Pharaoh]

^You know Gores did bring Phil Jackson into the front office?

Phil is a heck of a lot better than those assistant guys mentioned here. I have no complaints. As long as we keep him, both he and Dumars can stay.

WHAT?

For a start we have no idea what kind of role if any Phil Jackson will have going forward

Everyone agrees that Phoenix and now Philly have hired extremely smart dudes that deserved their shot!

And considering the "Moneyball" approach seems to be taking over the NBA it's a little concerning that until Gores arrived we didn't have anyone who was into advanced stats!

Even now we're not exactly the NBA leader on this front... we're not even in the conversation!

That worries me. Regardless of how you view the "Moneyball" stuff if a lot of your opponents are doing it and using it to their advantage you should too. Otherwise you risk falling behind the pack and playing catch up!

I was all for firing Joe Dumars and hiring one of these "Moneyball" types... because instead of going through a complete rebuild that would take years (Orlando, likely Phoenix) we have the ability to change this franchise in a single off-season!

And Gores didn't take that opportunity! Time will tell but if we don't do something significant this off-season I'll be extremely disappointed

[Goldtop]

^You know Gores did bring Phil Jackson into the front office?

Phil is a heck of a lot better than those assistant guys mentioned here. I have no complaints. As long as we keep him, both he and Dumars can stay.

WHAT?

For a start we have no idea what kind of role if any Phil Jackson will have going forward

Everyone agrees that Phoenix and now Philly have hired extremely smart dudes that deserved their shot!

And considering the "Moneyball" approach seems to be taking over the NBA it's a little concerning that until Gores arrived we didn't have anyone who was into advanced stats!

Even now we're not exactly the NBA leader on this front... we're not even in the conversation!

That worries me. Regardless of how you view the "Moneyball" stuff if a lot of your opponents are doing it and using it to their advantage you should too. Otherwise you risk falling behind the pack and playing catch up!

I was all for firing Joe Dumars and hiring one of these "Moneyball" types... because instead of going through a complete rebuild that would take years (Orlando, likely Phoenix) we have the ability to change this franchise in a single off-season!

And Gores didn't take that opportunity! Time will tell but if we don't do something significant this off-season I'll be extremely disappointed

Since when do two assistant GM's for two mediocre teams know more about building championships than Phil Jackson?

Because they used advanced stats that makes them more qualified than Phil?

I don't even know what I'm reading here.

Lawrence Frank and his assistant Charles Klask used advanced stats too. That doesn't mean they know anything about winning basketball games.

I'm not into the moneyball thing. I think Daryl Morey is one of the worst GMs in the league. So I have no interest in replacing Joe with the next Daryl Morey.

Replacing Joe with Phil Jackson, or getting to keep both of them together? Yes, that's something that makes sense. A combined 16 championships among the two of them as player, coach, and executive, all by just playing real basketball. Morey's team has been to the 2nd round once. Its a joke of a comparison, tbh, to even mention Daryl Morey with Phil and Joe when it comes to knowing how to build championship teams.

Phil may have never been a formal GM, but I think it would be naive to assume he had no part in building his 11 championship teams. He may not have been on the phone acquiring the players, but I'm sure he had input on which players he needed to carry out his vision on the court. So he clearly knows how to build a team. Bottom line, no one on earth has been involved with more championship teams. So there's no comparison to the experience he brings.

Like you said, we don't know yet if Phil is going to have a longterm role here, but the fact is Gores went and got him here, and at least could be working on getting him to stay longterm. So I don't get criticizing Gores for not hiring some assistant GM whose done nothing, when he's been busy trying to recruit Phil Jackson instead.

If he doesn't stay longterm, so be it, but its worth the risk in trying. There's always going to be assistant GMs out there who use advanced stats that you can hire at a moments notice. There's only one Zen Master

[Pharaoh]

LMAO Goldtop - you spend your entire response pimping Phil Jackson as GM of the Pistons over McDonough or Hinkie. You do recall that Joe Dumars is the GM of the Pistons, and not the great Phil Jackson, don't you?

You can claim that there will always be some assistant GM that uses advanced stats that you can hire at a moments notice but that doesn't make it true... and it doesn't mean the right assistant GM will be available.

Like it or not a lot of teams are putting stock into advanced stats. We can debate the merits of that in some other thread but the fact remains a lot of teams are using it to a large degree... and let's be honest: the data each team gathers is not shared so no one actually knows how they use their data and to what extent it plays a role in how they manage their roster/organisation

"Adapt or Die"... or at least put as much effort into advanced stats as the "leaders" so you can at least know what the other team may or may not know! Don't discount it simply because you don't believe in it... anything that may give you an advantage is something you should be interested it!

I seriously doubt that anyone rates McDonough or Hinkie simply because they are into advanced stats! I think a whole lot of other things make them attractive hires to several teams.

And if Phil Jackson walks away prior to the season proper and Joe Dumars is still GM will you be happy?

Or would McDonough or Hinkie look like pretty good hires?

[Kilo]

Jackson hasn't built a team in his life. If he ain't coaching here - it's pointless PR.

[Goldtop]

And if Phil Jackson walks away prior to the season proper and Joe Dumars is still GM will you be happy?

Or would McDonough or Hinkie look like pretty good hires?

Why would I want those two guys over Dumars? I don't understand where this idea came from that McDonough and Hinkie are bette than Dumars, when they've yet to work a day as a GM.

If we aren't going to get someone great to replace Joe, might as well just keep him.

I'm not one who thinks every young assistant coach/GM out there is the next genius of the league, if they are just given the chance. For every Carlisle and Sam Presti, there's a hundred Curry's and Chris Grant's.

I'd rather stay with someone whose a proven championship GM, or at least go with someone who has had proven success in this league in some form, be it coach, player, etc.

[Kilo]

^They're unknown but highly thought of, whereas Joe's a proven mess. What ever midas touch Joe did have he's lost.

[Pharaoh]

Why would I want those two guys over Dumars? I don't understand where this idea came from that McDonough and Hinkie are bette than Dumars, when they've yet to work a day as a GM.

Why would you want them over Dumars? Maybe because those guys represent the future and Dumars represents the past?

They might have have worked a day as a GM but that doesn't mean they're useless!

How does one get experience to get a job if one can't get a job to gain experience?

If we aren't going to get someone great to replace Joe, might as well just keep him.

So you want a proven GM that is better than Joe to replace Joe? I'm cool with that approach... but realistic enough to believe that just isn't going to happen

I

'm not one who thinks every young assistant coach/GM out there is the next genius of the league, if they are just given the chance. For every Carlisle and Sam Presti, there's a hundred Curry's and Chris Grant's.

I can roll with that but unless you can actually see the future you don't know if McDonough and/or Hinkie will fail or be great... and IF you can see the future can you please supply the state lottery numbers?

You will never ever know if you never ever give them a go... and IMO Joe Dumars over the last 5 years has been a terrible GM...

I'd rather stay with someone whose a proven championship GM, or at least go with someone who has had proven success in this league in some form, be it coach, player, etc.

Define "proven" success! McDonough and Hinkie are held in high esteem for a reason bro - they've been "successful" in their current roles with Boston/Houston and that is why they are getting GM jobs!

Methinks staying the course with Joe is a safe and easy option. IMO we should be swinging for the fences this off-season and McDonough/Hinkie were there for the taking.

Maybe hiring them = a home run... maybe they suck and are back to being assistants in 5 years?

But isn't it better to try and fail than never try at all?