Brandon Knight speaks

[Redeemed]

Pitino didn't have patience with him -- didn't believe he could facilitate anything
Butch Carter didn't use him at all -- didn't see him as a pg
D'Antoni didn't value him until Mark Jackson or Van Exel got hurt -- didn't see him as a starter
Flip Saunders worked to develop him -- saw him as a quality rotation player with potential as a starter
Rick Carlisle made him even better -- starter
Larry Brown deconstructed him and made him one of the best -- star

Chauncey Billups

It took 5 years and a ton of hard work but he climbed to the top of the position.

Brandon Knight will prove capable of making the climb as well.

[The_Irony]

BELIEVE IN KNIGHT

[zeebneeb]

Thanks for the breakdowns guys. Man am I excited for the season. Coming in Fresh, and I know it will take at least 3 games before I break my first remote(Wait, im watching them at my PC now....Gotta come up with something to break...)because the refs are 1.)Payed off 2.)Blind 3.)Stupid 4.)Hate Detroit 5.)Mad they couldn't play basketball due to an injury when they were 7, and now its payback time.

[OneBadMutha]

Pitino didn't have patience with him -- didn't believe he could facilitate anything
Butch Carter didn't use him at all -- didn't see him as a pg
D'Antoni didn't value him until Mark Jackson or Van Exel got hurt -- didn't see him as a starter
Flip Saunders worked to develop him -- saw him as a quality rotation player with potential as a starter
Rick Carlisle made him even better -- starter
Larry Brown deconstructed him and made him one of the best -- star

Chauncey Billups

It took 5 years and a ton of hard work but he climbed to the top of the position.

Brandon Knight will prove capable of making the climb as well.

People will bash this because people said the same thing with Stuckey...but Knight is a lot more Chauncy than Stuckey was. They're both scoring guards with outside shots who can score who don't have amazing vision when driving to the basket. They both have intangibles, are tough, and play hard both sides of the court.

Knight shows enough flashes to know there's real potential.

...and I still believe that the Pistons will win more games with Knight starting than Burke. Defense matters.

[Pharaoh]

Considering the coaching changes and trades it's a wonder Chauncey became anything.

Look at Stuckey! You can't convince me that in a good environment he'd turn out the way he has! Given good consistent coaching he'd be a much better player than he is now.

This stuff about Detroit having a good culture to develop players is BS IMHO. Excluding Drummond because he's only played 1 year how have the following players developed:

Knight
Monroe
Daye
Stuckey

One could argue none of those guys have developed much at all... or haven't shown vast improvements since Draft Day!

Afflalo developed... but not in Detroit!

In the last 5 years who have we developed?

[ComboGuardCity]

Considering the coaching changes and trades it's a wonder Chauncey became anything.

Look at Stuckey! You can't convince me that in a good environment he'd turn out the way he has! Given good consistent coaching he'd be a much better player than he is now.

This stuff about Detroit having a good culture to develop players is BS IMHO. Excluding Drummond because he's only played 1 year how have the following players developed:

Knight
Monroe
Daye
Stuckey

One could argue none of those guys have developed much at all... or haven't shown vast improvements since Draft Day!

Afflalo developed... but not in Detroit!

In the last 5 years who have we developed?

How has Monroe not developed?

[rock digger]

He's developed since he came into the league, but I think the point Pharoah is trying to make is that Monroe (and everyone in general) would have shown more improvement if there was a set coaching staff in place, a point I agree with.

[MrBigShot]

Considering the coaching changes and trades it's a wonder Chauncey became anything.

Look at Stuckey! You can't convince me that in a good environment he'd turn out the way he has! Given good consistent coaching he'd be a much better player than he is now.

This stuff about Detroit having a good culture to develop players is BS IMHO. Excluding Drummond because he's only played 1 year how have the following players developed:

How has Monroe not developed?

Yeah whats the deal? Anyone who's actually watched Monroe from day 1 would know he has improved by LEAPS and BOUNDS from his first few games. He struggled for most of the summer league, and the 1st half of the season he was getting wrecked. Dude would get his shot blocked ALOT. I mean ALOT. He was leading the league in shot attempts blocked at one point...that's how bad of a finisher he was. He picked it up in the 2nd half the season and averaged nearly a double double and started using more reverses and the basket to protect himself on shots. Was a perfect target in P&R for T-Mac. Second season he showed even more improvement and started to post up a lot, and his face up game definitely came along. Last season he got off to a really slow start so it looked like he regressed, but after that triple double he picked it up.

All in all I would say a bigman going from 9/7 to 15/10/2 to 16/10/4 has definitely developed. Knight is not a finished product. Arnie Kander is terrific for our young guys, and our franchise has a winning culture.

Stuckey's issue was lack of consistency, he did develop. He improved his jumper a bit, especially his 3pt% two years ago, and his decision making a bit. Doesn't just barrel in and get charges 5 times a game anymore. I think the lack of consistency possibly has to do with the fact that he's played for 4 different coaches? You can blame Joe D for that one. Kuester and Curry shouldn't have ever been hired.

Daye's issues were mental. Dude is a 1st round talent, but a mental midget. No confidence...that's not anyone's fault but his own.

All in all I think the idea that we can't develop players is bogus. A team like Sacremento can't develop players. Not us. Btw, Afflalo really didn't improve after leaving us...he simply got more mins and a bigger role.

[Pharaoh]

How much of Monroe's development can you give the organisation for though?

From all reports he has a great work ethic, is a high character dude and is driven. One could argue that he'd have developed into the same player if he wasn't drafted by us.

No one can know for sure... because he's just one of those guys. But the evidence around him suggests he developed in spite of the franchise as opposed to because of it.

Arnie Kander is terrific for our young guys, and our franchise has a winning culture.

No doubt Arnie is a great guy, has a lot of history... but our franchise has a winning culture? Really?

We've fired Flip, Curry, Kuester and now Frank in the last 5 years! Does that sound like an organisation with a winning culture?

Does drafting a "mental midget" in Daye sound like the act of an organisation with a winning culture? There are countless examples where we've made bone-headed decisions that I believe show we no longer have a winning culture... trading away Billups for Iverson, extending Rip, retaining Tayshaun, letting Big Ben walk, dumping Dice in the trade with Billups, trading away Afflalo for more cap space despite the fact we had $18 mil in the first place

These and others demonstrate a lot of things - a winning culture is not one of them IMHO

Stuckey's issue was lack of consistency, he did develop. He improved his jumper a bit, especially his 3pt% two years ago, and his decision making a bit. Doesn't just barrel in and get charges 5 times a game anymore. I think the lack of consistency possibly has to do with the fact that he's played for 4 different coaches? You can blame Joe D for that one. Kuester and Curry shouldn't have ever been hired.

Exactly my point dude! Stuckey's lack of development falls on the organisation and Joe is the head of that organisation. Hiring guys as Head Coach who never should have been hired isn't something a franchise with a winning culture would do!

The fact he had so many coaches over such a short period of time and his role was constantly changing hurt his development! It's that simple! Was he driven enough? Maybe, may not - but we failed him!

Daye's issues were mental. Dude is a 1st round talent, but a mental midget. No confidence...that's not anyone's fault but his own.

So we drafted him because.... he has talent? I'll grant you that at some point in the Draft certain issues get overlooked and you just pick talent. But going into it we knew he was a "mental midget"... did we do anything about that? Was he stupid or did he lack confidence? Did we just treat him like another piece of talent on the roster? There are ways and means of building someone up... we failed to do that!

All in all I think the idea that we can't develop players is bogus. A team like Sacremento can't develop players. Not us.

I couldn't care less about what Sacramento does. I don't care if they develop players, trade everyone, draft head case after head case! Forget them! I'm a Piston fan. Coming out on top when you're comparing us to a fustercluck of epic proportions shouldn't make you happy either! It's obvious we should look better than them.

How do we compare with the Spurs - the organisation people tend to use as the benchmark?

Btw, Afflalo really didn't improve after leaving us...he simply got more mins and a bigger role.

Ummm ok... so we traded away a quality person and player so we could give Chris Wilcox $3 mil and not $1 mil? Is that something a quality organisation would do?

Either we suck at evaluation or Afflalo developed into a much better player after he left us. You can choose which option you prefer.

Bottom line: the revolving door of coaches has hurt our players and needs to stop under Cheeks. Like it or not he should be here for 3 years minimum - this quick fix **** can't continue

[ComboGuardCity]

Sounds like a case of damned if I do damned if I don't. If he develops its his doing. If he doesn't its the team's fault.

[MrBigShot]

How much of Monroe's development can you give the organisation for though?

From all reports he has a great work ethic, is a high character dude and is driven. One could argue that he'd have developed into the same player if he wasn't drafted by us.

No one can know for sure... because he's just one of those guys. But the evidence around him suggests he developed in spite of the franchise as opposed to because of it.

No doubt Arnie is a great guy, has a lot of history... but our franchise has a winning culture? Really?

We've fired Flip, Curry, Kuester and now Frank in the last 5 years! Does that sound like an organisation with a winning culture?

Does drafting a "mental midget" in Daye sound like the act of an organisation with a winning culture? There are countless examples where we've made bone-headed decisions that I believe show we no longer have a winning culture... trading away Billups for Iverson, extending Rip, retaining Tayshaun, letting Big Ben walk, dumping Dice in the trade with Billups, trading away Afflalo for more cap space despite the fact we had $18 mil in the first place

These and others demonstrate a lot of things - a winning culture is not one of them IMHO

Stuckey's issue was lack of consistency, he did develop. He improved his jumper a bit, especially his 3pt% two years ago, and his decision making a bit. Doesn't just barrel in and get charges 5 times a game anymore. I think the lack of consistency possibly has to do with the fact that he's played for 4 different coaches? You can blame Joe D for that one. Kuester and Curry shouldn't have ever been hired.

Exactly my point dude! Stuckey's lack of development falls on the organisation and Joe is the head of that organisation. Hiring guys as Head Coach who never should have been hired isn't something a franchise with a winning culture would do!

The fact he had so many coaches over such a short period of time and his role was constantly changing hurt his development! It's that simple! Was he driven enough? Maybe, may not - but we failed him!

Daye's issues were mental. Dude is a 1st round talent, but a mental midget. No confidence...that's not anyone's fault but his own.

So we drafted him because.... he has talent? I'll grant you that at some point in the Draft certain issues get overlooked and you just pick talent. But going into it we knew he was a "mental midget"... did we do anything about that? Was he stupid or did he lack confidence? Did we just treat him like another piece of talent on the roster? There are ways and means of building someone up... we failed to do that!

It seems like you're trying to make different arguments now...you stated Monroe has barely developed since draft day. I think it's pretty apparent that that's not true. Whether or not that's due to his work ethic or not...he developed. All players need at least SOME work ethic to develop. Daye sucked, but if you're trying to tell me we made a mistake in drafting him I'm not disagreeing...but I was by no means saying that I felt that he was a good choice. Would have went with a PG. I stand by my point that Afflalo didn't develop when he left. We just didn't give him enough of an opportunity...when you look at it, he was a good shooter, smart basketball player and good defender when he was traded. He was simply given an opportunity to showcase that in Denver.

Our franchise absolutely has a winning culture...the last 5 years doesn't change that. We have three championships for a reason; Detroit is all about blue-collar teams built on defense and we've had a lot of success when you consider the fact that:

1. We are not a big market
2. We did not luck out with an all time great falling into our laps like Tim Duncan on the 3nd championship team

Most importantly though...we do need to stick with Mo Cheeks like you said. Inconsistency and lack of identity/stability won't get us anywhere.

[Kilo]

I don't think he is a natural point guard - so he will never be great, but I think with hard work he could be good - and that would be good enough for us assuming our front court reaches it's potential. When I say not natural, I mean the innate feel for the game, the vision, the anticipation - he just seems to me like how in football you put your best athlete at QB in Pap Warner where they;d then have the ball in their hands the most, not because they are the best QB on the team. Knight would have been much better off staying in school for his sophomore season, and not going to one-and-done Kentucky NBA factory where you can't stay because they already recruited your replacement on a promise to start from day one.

[Redeemed]

I don't think he is a natural point guard - so he will never be great, but I think with hard work he could be good - and that would be good enough for us assuming our front court reaches it's potential. When I say not natural, I mean the innate feel for the game, the vision, the anticipation - he just seems to me like how in football you put your best athlete at QB in Pap Warner where they;d then have the ball in their hands the most, not because they are the best QB on the team. Knight would have been much better off staying in school for his sophomore season, and not going to one-and-done Kentucky NBA factory where you can't stay because they already recruited your replacement on a promise to start from day one.

Initially when you said Knight was not a natural point guard, I thought you were saying that because he doesn't appear to be a pass first point guard. Ok so he's not natural, because he doesn't have an innate feel for the game. Well that sort of thing comes with development. Players get to a point where the game slows down for them and they have a feel for how the play is going to unfold two or three steps ahead of the actual play.

You see this with all positions not just pg. These players tend to do things like pass players into being open instead of waiting for them to get open. The game will begin to slow down for Knight and he will exhibit a better feel.

We've actually seen Westbrook develop into the type of point guard with a feel for the game instead of just throwing cannon balls at guys in stationary positions, he's passing them open or tell one player where to stand while getting the other player a lay up. It comes and I'm really confident it will come with Knight.

So if feel for the game is what makes one great, and the great ones do possess this, than Knight doesn't have to be limited at one day being good. The kid can be great.

[ripchard32]

I might be a minority here and pretty sure I am but, I think Knight has a great load of potential but just needs a veteran PG to help him develop (ala billups) he can shoot but he needs to get stronger so he can finish those contact layups and shots. I feel like here in detroit we are always in such a huge rush to get a superstar player. We haven't had one since grant hill and we still won the championship. Knight needs time and a mentor, and to be honest even with our current roster we are no threat for the good to even average playoff teams so let the guys at least get some playoff experience and let them feel the disappointment of losing on a big stage as I believe situations like that can really "activate" that crazy drive in a player.