Jeff Teague?

[ChipButty]

But is he clearly better than Knight? Or at least enough of an upgrade to warrant the type of contract he'd require?

I think the answer to both of those is no.

Give Knight a season with some decent players around him and lets see if he takes that next step like many PGs have in their 3rd year.

In my opinion, Teague is clearly better and there is nothing magical about a players 3rd year in the league. I'd suggest most players show their potential during their first 2 years. Teague was the 19th pick and was brought along at a slower pace to Knight.

Statistically, Knight has 2 problems. He's an inefficient scorer (41% FG%) and his career assist/turnover (1.44) ratio is terrible. Last year his assist/turnover ratio was improved at 1.48. Even if I try and account for the fact that he was moved to SG last year, his pre-all star break ratio was 1.54, which is still terrible.

You are not going to find many examples of guys with stats like that for their first 2 years in the league went on to be solid point guards. Chauncey is one, but it took him a lot longer than 3 years to become an impact player.

I took a look at current PG's that averaged at least 6 assists per game last year (I can't guarantee these stats are completely accurate, but you get the idea):

Rondo: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
CP3: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Vasquez: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Holiday: first year had an assist/turnover ratio of 1.8 (broke out 2nd year in league)
Deron Williams: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Tony Parker: one year with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.87 his fifth year in league)
Goran Dragic: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Jameer Nelson: one year with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.79 his "magical" third year in league)
Westbrook: two years with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.6 his first year in league and 1.53 his 4th year)
Rubio: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Teague: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Calderon: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Stephen Curry: two years with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.9 his first year in league and 1.87 his 2nd year)
Ty Lawson: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Damian Lillard: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Brandon Jennings: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Kyle Lowry: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Linsanity: one year with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.72 in his 2nd year)
Mike Conley: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2

Just to be clear, I am not trying to bash Knight. Just trying to illustrate how real the problem is. Teague would be an easy short term solution, but I am not sure it's the best move long term.

Russell Westbrook is the only player on the list that comes close to having struggles similar to Knight. Not sure how realistic it is, but this may be who he needs to try and model his game on. It's unlikely that he will ever be a crafty pass first PG. He needs to use his size and athleticism to create opportunities. The very least we can do is bring Chauncey in to try and help him.

[ImHeisenberg]

But is he clearly better than Knight? Or at least enough of an upgrade to warrant the type of contract he'd require?

I think the answer to both of those is no.

Give Knight a season with some decent players around him and lets see if he takes that next step like many PGs have in their 3rd year.

In my opinion, Teague is clearly better and there is nothing magical about a players 3rd year in the league. I'd suggest most players show their potential during their first 2 years. Teague was the 19th pick and was brought along at a slower pace to Knight.

Statistically, Knight has 2 problems. He's an inefficient scorer (41% FG%) and his career assist/turnover (1.44) ratio is terrible. Last year his assist/turnover ratio was improved at 1.48. Even if I try and account for the fact that he was moved to SG last year, his pre-all star break ratio was 1.54, which is still terrible.

You are not going to find many examples of guys with stats like that for their first 2 years in the league went on to be solid point guards. Chauncey is one, but it took him a lot longer than 3 years to become an impact player.

I took a look at current PG's that averaged at least 6 assists per game last year (I can't guarantee these stats are completely accurate, but you get the idea):

Rondo: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
CP3: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Vasquez: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Holiday: first year had an assist/turnover ratio of 1.8 (broke out 2nd year in league)
Deron Williams: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Tony Parker: one year with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.87 his fifth year in league)
Goran Dragic: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Jameer Nelson: one year with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.79 his "magical" third year in league)
Westbrook: two years with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.6 his first year in league and 1.53 his 4th year)
Rubio: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Teague: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Calderon: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Stephen Curry: two years with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.9 his first year in league and 1.87 his 2nd year)
Ty Lawson: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Damian Lillard: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Brandon Jennings: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Kyle Lowry: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Linsanity: one year with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.72 in his 2nd year)
Mike Conley: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2

Just to be clear, I am not trying to bash Knight. Just trying to illustrate how real the problem is. Teague would be an easy short term solution, but I am not sure it's the best move long term.

Russell Westbrook is the only player on the list that comes close to having struggles similar to Knight. Not sure how realistic it is, but this may be who he needs to try and model his game on. It's unlikely that he will ever be a crafty pass first PG. He needs to use his size and athleticism to create opportunities. The very least we can do is bring Chauncey in to try and help him.

Fantastic post!

[jaredtyshaf]

But is he clearly better than Knight? Or at least enough of an upgrade to warrant the type of contract he'd require?

I think the answer to both of those is no.

Give Knight a season with some decent players around him and lets see if he takes that next step like many PGs have in their 3rd year.

In my opinion, Teague is clearly better and there is nothing magical about a players 3rd year in the league. I'd suggest most players show their potential during their first 2 years. Teague was the 19th pick and was brought along at a slower pace to Knight.

Statistically, Knight has 2 problems. He's an inefficient scorer (41% FG%) and his career assist/turnover (1.44) ratio is terrible. Last year his assist/turnover ratio was improved at 1.48. Even if I try and account for the fact that he was moved to SG last year, his pre-all star break ratio was 1.54, which is still terrible.

You are not going to find many examples of guys with stats like that for their first 2 years in the league went on to be solid point guards. Chauncey is one, but it took him a lot longer than 3 years to become an impact player.

I took a look at current PG's that averaged at least 6 assists per game last year (I can't guarantee these stats are completely accurate, but you get the idea):

Rondo: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
CP3: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Vasquez: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Holiday: first year had an assist/turnover ratio of 1.8 (broke out 2nd year in league)
Deron Williams: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Tony Parker: one year with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.87 his fifth year in league)
Goran Dragic: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Jameer Nelson: one year with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.79 his "magical" third year in league)
Westbrook: two years with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.6 his first year in league and 1.53 his 4th year)
Rubio: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Teague: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Calderon: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Stephen Curry: two years with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.9 his first year in league and 1.87 his 2nd year)
Ty Lawson: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Damian Lillard: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Brandon Jennings: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Kyle Lowry: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2
Linsanity: one year with an assist/turnover ratio below 2 (1.72 in his 2nd year)
Mike Conley: never had an assist/turnover ratio below 2

Just to be clear, I am not trying to bash Knight. Just trying to illustrate how real the problem is. Teague would be an easy short term solution, but I am not sure it's the best move long term.

Russell Westbrook is the only player on the list that comes close to having struggles similar to Knight. Not sure how realistic it is, but this may be who he needs to try and model his game on. It's unlikely that he will ever be a crafty pass first PG. He needs to use his size and athleticism to create opportunities. The very least we can do is bring Chauncey in to try and help him.

That is a great post and you did your homework. I never said I thought Knight was going to be an elite play maker, I just think he is going to be a solid PG. He has never been an elite playmaker at any level and that probably won't change, but he could end up as a 17ppg and 7ast type of player

[mercury]

Chipbutty=
/endthread

[Piston Pete]

I wonder what the Hawks would do if we sign Teague to a good-sized offer sheet.

Do they let him walk and focus on Monta Ellis more?
Or do they match knowing they may not have enough cap to get Monta as well?

The reason they are signing all these other guys and getting to Teague last is because they can. But we could force their hand by signing Teague to an offer sheet.

[PistonPride]

I think we sign Teague or trade for rondo and bring knight off the bench in a role similar to Terry, Knight compares favorably to terry as his ws/48 went from .025 to around .09 which is actually pretty good for a second year player. Terry experienced a similar jump from .44 to .100 when he made the switch early in his career

[Joe Berry]

32 mil/ 4 years is a fair offer, its less than Joe gave Stuckey per year, i dont understand why the Pistons didnt try to sign Teague, he would have been the best guard on the roster by a landslide and fixed our PG problem.

[The_Irony]

Slightly over rated. Teague at 8 mill a year? Hammond reached cause he has nothing else. Reddick and Teague? Blegh

[Dre Drummond]

Teague is solid and still has potential to improve. For $8 million a year its only $7.3 million more than the MLE over 4 years which isn't too bad I suppose. Worst case for Teague would have been an MLE deal from someone but Atlanta would have matched for sure.