POLL: Take A Step Back...will we be better with Jennings

[tmorgan]

This was interesting enough to get me to post...

I actually kind of like this deal. Knight annoyed the crap out of me -- if you're a worse PG than Rodney Stuckey, that's pretty amazing, and Knight was.

Jennings has ALL KINDS of flaws, but as PoP said, we cover some of them well. Jennings is just as good at spacing the floor as Knight, and I daresay he better at throwing lobs to Smith and Drummond because the guy is obviously ego-driven. His gambling defense stinks, but we have some coverage there.

I like it. I think it makes the Pistons a little better, a lot better constructed, and a TON more interesting.

Plus, Siva!

[Q00]

Of course we are better. We just added a young legit all-star cailber PG on a great contract, in exchange for three bench players, and still retained all of our cap flexibility going forward.

[Natopher]

I like the trade. We didn't give up much, and Jennings is CLEARLY an upgrade over Knight. Defensively, not so much, but offensively he's clearly more talented. He's got much better handles than Knight, and he can set his teammates up okay. I'm not crazy about the price, but I don't think it's horrible. Jennings has shown far more flashes of being good than Knight has. And an important thing, is that he's only 23 (turning 24 in Sept). Jennings still has a lot of potential and room to be coached up. And with Billups, and Cheeks I think he's got as good a chance as ever to turn into something special.

That said, he has a few things that scare me:
1) Shot selection/shooting percentage
He clearly takes too many bad shots which contributes to a low shooting %. That said, this can be coached out of him. He's clearly got a very good jump shot.
2) Defense
He's probably only an average defender, and he helps off his man too often. But the bad help D can be coached out of him, and with Smith/Monroe/Drummond his defense shouldn't be too much of a concern.
3) Finishing around the hoop
He's clearly very capable around the hoop with his left hand. I've been watching video on him and have yet to see him even ATTEMPT to finish with his right hand once. He'll routinely contort his body trying to get into position to finish with his left hand, which isn't good. If he could finish with his right hand that'd be a major improvement, until then he'll only be an average to slightly above average finisher around the hoop, when he's clearly capable of being elite.

I'm very excited to see how he plays with us next season. We'll be the best team he's ever played on, he's got a very solid A/TO ratio, very good 3pt and FT shooting %, and when he's hitting no one can stop him. He definitely has areas he needs to improve, but he's MUCH farther along in his development than Knight was. Not to mention he's only about 2 years older than Knight so clearly there's still room to grow.

[qm22]

I'm really happy about switching Knight with Jennings. Still think the trade could have been better. But between these two guys I think we will be far better with Jennings.

Knight was considered a golden boy because everyone severely hated Stuckey. No matter how badly he sucked. Knight was given a free pass. I don't dislike Knight, and hoped he would turn into a good role player. But we were shoe horning him into a franchise PG role because he was the #8 pick, and it was pretty crippling. Even if Stuckey outperformed Knight (which he did even last year, unbelievably), we just had to stick with Knight in the hopes it would pay off later. After two seasons it did not seem likely. No one knows for sure, but I certainly hoped for a diminished role for Knight this year.

Knight was turnover prone, indecisive and shotclock wasting, pretty bad at the pick and roll and penetration. Despite being given freedom and guaranteed minutes, his production was statistically awful. He showed promise as a shooter and defender.

Jennings will have to either improve as a player or adjust his play to fit in.

[King Bugs]

Only in the short term did we get better, we're going to be quite the treadmill team now. It's only a good signing if you ignore everything that points to Jennings being a terrible basketball player (like that "why is Brandon Jennings still a FA" video that has been posted a million times) and delude yourself into thinking he'll be a WAY better and different player just because he's wearing red, white and blue. I'm honestly sick of us picking up Milwaukee's garbage and hoping it turns into gold.

This signing also has me feeling like I wish we gave up on Stuckey as fast as we gave up on BK.

[ImHeisenberg]

Jennings is an overall better player than Knight, for that alone it's an upgrade. Financially, it really doesn't restrict the team either.

It opened up two roster spots, so Siva may be signed now. We need another backup C. Somebody call Macklin back to the states.

[ImHeisenberg]

Only in the short term did we get better, we're going to be quite the treadmill team now.

I think you're looking at this trade in a very narrow manner. How are we a treadmill team when players like Drummond and Monroe still have a lot of room to improve? When we have promising rookies like KCP and Mitchell? And, the known talent like Josh Smith, and x-factors like Datomi and what Billups will bring to the locker room and floor.

It's silly to assume this team is somehow limited by Jennings. Even if we give Moose a max deal next summer, we'd still have 8-10 million in cap space, depending on whatever the new cap is.

[King Bugs]

It's silly to assume this team is somehow limited by Jennings.

I've had issues with this team and the way it's being constructed this summer, way before Jennings and I'm definitely not as high on the potential of this roster as you are (outside of Drummond of course), so to avoid a pointless back and forth I'll say this... we'll see how it goes.

[qm22]

Jennings is an overall better player than Knight, for that alone it's an upgrade. Financially, it really doesn't restrict the team either.

That is why I think the move is good. The minimum expectations are an upgrade.

As far as higher expectation goes, I wonder if Jennings will improve his shot selection. The Bucks teams he was on were pretty devoid of offensive talent, so a lot of his "chucking" may not have been his playing style of choice.

[Q00]

Just wanted to add, Knights defensive rating was 110 last year. Jennings was 106. Neither great, but the myth that Knight was a great defender can stop now that he's been traded. No need to talk up his defense anymore. He was solid at best. I don't anticipate Jennings being any worse defensively. With our frontcourt it won't be much of an issue anyways. He will be able to gamble for a lot of steals and his quickness and ability to run a proper fastbreak will be an asset in that regard, more so than Knight would've been, who was really bad at fastbreaks.

[joeposh]

Can anyone speak to Jennings ability to execute the Pick and Roll? That was a huge hole in BK7's game and the main thing I care about.

[Baddy Chuck]

Can anyone speak to Jennings ability to execute the Pick and Roll? That was a huge hole in BK7's game and the main thing I care about.

One of the worst decision makers I've seen in a while.




Anyways, you guys will be better then with Knight short term, and if he improves obviously long term. Knight improving would basically be what Jennings is now. If Jennings doesn't really improve, you only got him for three years so it could be a lot worse.

[MrBigShot]

Can anyone speak to Jennings ability to execute the Pick and Roll? That was a huge hole in BK7's game and the main thing I care about.

He's clearly light years ahead of Knight in this regard in terms of ability. Check his 55 point game for example. Most of his points came off open jump shots he created by reading and reacting to how the defense played him every time Bogut would set a pick. He was able to get to his spots the whole night, and usually didn't need anymore than 1 pick to do it.

Knight on the other hand would use the pick, get doubled teamed and then either pick up his dribble or wait until the bigman defender switched back to their man, effectively rendering the pick and roll...useless.

After cooling off a bit and having sometime to think about this trade, I am a little less annoyed...Slava is a throwaway, Middleton could a solid rotation player and Knight is just a question mark. We didn't give up much, but I still think 8 mil is too much for a guy who no team waned. We could have got away with 5-6.

Honestly, when Jennings came into the league averaging 24ppg for a short span I thought he was going to be a poor mans Iverson. I still think he has a lot of potential if he can fix a few very fixable flaws...shot selection, finishing ability with his right hand, and be more disciplined defensively.

[Part-time Lover]

Trade sunk in for me and we need to move on. It's a good thing that Jennings provides what the Pistons lack although I don't know how well he'll provide

I agree that the frontcourt can mask his lack of defense and even KCP could compensate for him. He also provides spacing given that he mostly shoots open jumpshots. He has shown that he can facilitate too

Jennings' problem is in his decision making and his attitude. Sure he can provide spacing but his career so far proved us that he'll prefer shooting contested 3s/stepback long 2s. He also has the tools to become an average defender but he's shown that he is an awful defender so far

If he can be disciplined into playing within the offense, shooting when necessary, running the team and be an average defender, then this deal would be great

It all lies on his discipline. I think this is where Billups, Cheeks and Sheed will come in. Let's hope this group of veteran keeps him and his ego in check. The talent is there, just needs to be harnessed

[The_Irony]

Can anyone speak to Jennings ability to execute the Pick and Roll? That was a huge hole in BK7's game and the main thing I care about.

One of the worst decision makers I've seen in a while.




Anyways, you guys will be better then with Knight short term, and if he improves obviously long term. Knight improving would basically be what Jennings is now. If Jennings doesn't really improve, you only got him for three years so it could be a lot worse.

Are we judging Jennings pick n roll abilities based off what? Milwaukees superior big men?

[Baddy Chuck]

Are we judging Jennings pick n roll abilities based off what? Milwaukees superior big men?

He could barely do it with a Bogut, who in his "prime" was probably a better pick and roll option then anything on your roster (though I think Drummond could be better, really like him). Fact is, Jennings was a solid pick and roll player the first month he was in the NBA because teams hadn't figured him out. He was exceptional with Bogut and even Kurt Thomas. Flash forward a month and teams learned that if they don't slouch off of him and the big man showed for the slightest second Jennings' pick and roll game was non existent, it had nothing to do with whatever big man was with him. Jennings, 4 years later, still hasn't figured out what to do if a big guy steps up to him off a pick and roll.

[The_Irony]

Are we judging Jennings pick n roll abilities based off what? Milwaukees superior big men?

He could barely do it with a Bogut, who in his "prime" was probably a better pick and roll option then anything on your roster (though I think Drummond could be better, really like him). Fact is, Jennings was a solid pick and roll player the first month he was in the NBA because teams hadn't figured him out. He was exceptional with Bogut and even Kurt Thomas. Flash forward a month and teams learned that if they don't slouch off of him and the big man showed for the slightest second Jennings' pick and roll game was non existent, it had nothing to do with whatever big man was with him. Jennings, 4 years later, still hasn't figured out what to do if a big guy steps up to him off a pick and roll.

Boguts best year(stats) was Jennings rookie year. Jennings only played with Bogut for his 1st 2 seasons. I live in oakland and watched GSW all the time, Bogut is barely a better option PNR than Monroe, and no where close to a PNR option of Drummond (assuming natural progression) Bogut goes up ridiculously soft and has sh*tfor hands.

Im not saying youre wrong. I'm saying Monroe and Drummond are clearly better than Milwaukee has ever had with Jennings there so it's not fair to say at this point. Got to wait and see.

[Baddy Chuck]

Boguts best year(stats) was Jennings rookie year. Jennings only played with Bogut for his 1st 2 seasons. I live in oakland and watched GSW all the time, Bogut is barely a better option PNR than Monroe, and no where close to a PNR option of Drummond (assuming natural progression) Bogut goes up ridiculously soft and has sh*tfor hands.

Im not saying youre wrong. I'm saying Monroe and Drummond are clearly better than Milwaukee has ever had with Jennings there so it's not fair to say at this point. Got to wait and see.

"Prime" Bogut =/ GSW Bogut. They aren't even remotely close as players. Bogut was so much better it wasn't funny. I've watched a bunch of Detroit games, mostly focusing on Drummond but obviously saw others, and Bogut was a better pick and roll player then Monroe. I'd say he was better then Drummond last season, but as I said Drummond could easily take him in the long (or not so long) run. I would've traded "prime" Bogut for last season Drummond in a heartbeat I guess is what I'm saying.

And I say this as a person who was a Bogut "hater" on the Bucks board.

Jennings' pick and roll game was just simply ugly. Mostly because of his inability and/or unwillingness to pass, the fact that he's prone to taking off balanced fade away jumpers (more then any other shot in his repertoire) and the fact that he has the ability of a toddler to finish at the rim.

[mercury]

Thinking Calderon would have been a better fit... maybe it was the age difference.