Game 19: Detroit @ Milwaukee (8:00 PM ET)

[Q00]

Also, for all the complaints about Smith's shooting, I think people forget what team they are following sometimes. This franchise was built on winning ugly, with players whose impact on the game defied the statsheet. I don't think there's any denying that Smith is helping us win games, so his stats don't really matter to me. I said it before the season in that thread about predicting his stats, I'm not going to judge him based on stats, I'll judge him on our record/standings. Those that want pretty, super efficient offense should go follow teams like the Spurs or Warriors. The Pistons have never been that team and never had players like that. So I don't know why all of sudden its such an important thing to Pistons fans nowadays for our players to be so damn efficient. I don't get the obsession, but whatever.

I'll also say for those wondering why Smith shoots so many jumpshots, I ask why aren't the other players shooting them when they get the ball?

Its not like Smith is selfish. When the ball comes to him he's not opposed to passing it out to someone else, and does so regularly. Its not like when he gets the ball its Tayshaun isolation time. He shares the ball as much as every one else on the team. But the other players regularly don't seem to want to shoot it when the game gets tight, so they pass it back to him late in the clock all the time. You can't always blame Smith for that.

Regardless, this team is playing great right now so there's really nothing to complain about for me. I just wanted to point this out to those who are nitpicking Smith all the time.

[DetroitSho]

Also, for all the complaints about Smith's shooting, I think people forget what team they are following sometimes. This franchise was built on winning ugly, with players whose impact on the game defied the statsheet. I don't think there's any denying that Smith is helping us win games, so his stats don't really matter to me. I said it before the season in that thread about predicting his stats, I'm not going to judge him based on stats, I'll judge him on our record/standings. Those that want pretty, super efficient offense should go follow teams like the Spurs or Warriors. The Pistons have never been that team and never had players like that. So I don't know why all of sudden its such an important thing to Pistons fans nowadays for our players to be so damn efficient. I don't get the obsession, but whatever.

I'll also say for those wondering why Smith shoots so many jumpshots, I ask why aren't the other players shooting them when they get the ball?

Its not like Smith is selfish. When the ball comes to him he's not opposed to passing it out to someone else, and does so regularly. Its not like when he gets the ball its Tayshaun isolation time. He shares the ball as much as every one else on the team. But the other players regularly don't seem to want to shoot it when the game gets tight, so they pass it back to him late in the clock all the time. You can't always blame Smith for that.

Regardless, this team is playing great right now so there's really nothing to complain about for me. I just wanted to point this out to those who are nitpicking Smith all the time.

I can't believe you said the Pistons teams of the past have never been efficient offensively. There's a difference between high scoring/aesthetically pleasing offense and efficiency. The going to work Pistons were a machine. They had low turnovers, shared the ball while looking for the right play and they rarely ever took bad shots, especially late in the game. That's the model of efficiency. Also if you think Josh only takes jumpers when the game gets tight or is on the line, you're also mistaken about that. Furthermore, if that WAS the case, do you really want him taking 20 footers with the game on the line? Again, I'm glad he's on the team but please stop making stuff up to excuse the bad things he's doing.

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[Q00]

Also, for all the complaints about Smith's shooting, I think people forget what team they are following sometimes. This franchise was built on winning ugly, with players whose impact on the game defied the statsheet. I don't think there's any denying that Smith is helping us win games, so his stats don't really matter to me. I said it before the season in that thread about predicting his stats, I'm not going to judge him based on stats, I'll judge him on our record/standings. Those that want pretty, super efficient offense should go follow teams like the Spurs or Warriors. The Pistons have never been that team and never had players like that. So I don't know why all of sudden its such an important thing to Pistons fans nowadays for our players to be so damn efficient. I don't get the obsession, but whatever.

I'll also say for those wondering why Smith shoots so many jumpshots, I ask why aren't the other players shooting them when they get the ball?

Its not like Smith is selfish. When the ball comes to him he's not opposed to passing it out to someone else, and does so regularly. Its not like when he gets the ball its Tayshaun isolation time. He shares the ball as much as every one else on the team. But the other players regularly don't seem to want to shoot it when the game gets tight, so they pass it back to him late in the clock all the time. You can't always blame Smith for that.

Regardless, this team is playing great right now so there's really nothing to complain about for me. I just wanted to point this out to those who are nitpicking Smith all the time.

I can't believe you said the Pistons teams of the past have never been efficient offensively. There's a difference between high scoring/aesthetically pleasing offense and efficiency. The going to work Pistons were a machine. They had low turnovers, shared the ball while looking for the right play and they rarely ever took bad shots, especially late in the game. That's the model of efficiency. Also if you think Josh only takes jumpers when the game gets tight or is on the line, you're also mistaken about that. Furthermore, if that WAS the case, do you really want him taking 20 footers with the game on the line? Again, I'm glad he's on the team but please stop making stuff up to excuse the bad things he's doing.

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What?

The 2004 Pistons were 18th in offensive efficiency. The 2005 Pistons were 17th. In those seasons Chauncey shot 40% FG. Sheed shot 42%. So I don't get criticizing Smith and Jennings for their FG%, when we won a championship and got to back to back Finals with players shooting the same percentages at those positions. It makes no sense.

Those great efficient offenses you are referring to were under Flip Suanders, which won us jack squat.

So I'm not making anything up and I stand by what I said. This franchise under Dumars has been at their best when they won ugly. Once they started trying to win by out efficiency-ing team, that's when they started losing.

I'm not saying they should strive to win ugly and not try to have an efficient offense, but I don't think offensive effciency needs to be such a high priority like fans make it out to be. Based on how much complaining there is around town about Smith/Jennings effciency, you would think its the #1 priority to us winning championships, but history shows its clearly not.

The funny thing is we are actually not even an ineffcieint offense, ranked 13th in the league. That's not great, but not bad enough to warrant constant cpmplaining about efficiency either. (I'm talking in general too, not directed at you btw)

So whatever, I think I said my peace. If fans want to drive themselves crazy over players efficiency, go for it, I won't interject anymore on the topic. I'm just glad we have a good team again.

[DetroitSho]

Also, for all the complaints about Smith's shooting, I think people forget what team they are following sometimes. This franchise was built on winning ugly, with players whose impact on the game defied the statsheet. I don't think there's any denying that Smith is helping us win games, so his stats don't really matter to me. I said it before the season in that thread about predicting his stats, I'm not going to judge him based on stats, I'll judge him on our record/standings. Those that want pretty, super efficient offense should go follow teams like the Spurs or Warriors. The Pistons have never been that team and never had players like that. So I don't know why all of sudden its such an important thing to Pistons fans nowadays for our players to be so damn efficient. I don't get the obsession, but whatever.

I'll also say for those wondering why Smith shoots so many jumpshots, I ask why aren't the other players shooting them when they get the ball?

Its not like Smith is selfish. When the ball comes to him he's not opposed to passing it out to someone else, and does so regularly. Its not like when he gets the ball its Tayshaun isolation time. He shares the ball as much as every one else on the team. But the other players regularly don't seem to want to shoot it when the game gets tight, so they pass it back to him late in the clock all the time. You can't always blame Smith for that.

Regardless, this team is playing great right now so there's really nothing to complain about for me. I just wanted to point this out to those who are nitpicking Smith all the time.

I can't believe you said the Pistons teams of the past have never been efficient offensively. There's a difference between high scoring/aesthetically pleasing offense and efficiency. The going to work Pistons were a machine. They had low turnovers, shared the ball while looking for the right play and they rarely ever took bad shots, especially late in the game. That's the model of efficiency. Also if you think Josh only takes jumpers when the game gets tight or is on the line, you're also mistaken about that. Furthermore, if that WAS the case, do you really want him taking 20 footers with the game on the line? Again, I'm glad he's on the team but please stop making stuff up to excuse the bad things he's doing.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

What?

The 2004 Pistons were 18th in offensive efficiency. The 2005 Pistons were 17th. In those seasons Chauncey shot 40% FG. Sheed shot 42%. So I don't get criticizing Smith and Jennings for their FG%, when we won a championship and got to back to back Finals with players shooting the same percentages at those positions. It makes no sense.

Those great efficient offenses you are referring to were under Flip Suanders, which won us jack squat.

So I'm not making anything up and I stand by what I said. This franchise under Dumars has been at their best when they won ugly. Once they started trying to win by out efficiency-ing team, that's when they started losing.

I'm not saying they should strive to win ugly and not try to have an efficient offense, but I don't think offensive effciency needs to be such a high priority like fans make it out to be. Based on how much complaining there is around town about Smith/Jennings effciency, you would think its the #1 priority to us winning championships, but history shows its clearly not.

The funny thing is we are actually not even an ineffcieint offense, ranked 13th in the league. That's not great, but not bad enough to warrant constant cpmplaining about efficiency either. (I'm talking in general too, not directed at you btw)

So whatever, I think I said my peace. If fans want to drive themselves crazy over players efficiency, go for it, I won't interject anymore on the topic. I'm just glad we have a good team again.

"The Pistons have never been that team and never had players like that."
YOUR words......then you go on to acknowledge that they indeed had teams/players that were efficient. Yeah.....sure.

I don't look at a boxscore or stats to determine if a guy is efficient. I watch the freaking game. The Pistons played at a slow pace and didn't have great 1 on 1 players to get the easiest shots, and add to it they were a strictly jump shooting team that oh by the way started the offensively inept Ben Wallace. Of course if you pull up league rankings they're not going to fare well. But my whole point is since they didn't have great individual offensive players who consistently got easy buckets, they always worked the offense to the point where more often than not they got good shots. Good shots, good shots, good shots. I don't know how many times I have to emphasize that term.

I put it like this, if you watch the game and you never say, "awww man Josh, that was a bad shot" then there's nothing for us to discuss. You'll never see wrong in his shot selection.

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[Brapman]

We need to be paying more attention to KCP. This kid plays a total game for us, and it seems to me that his game is growing in leaps and bounds as the young season goes on.

KCP is playing shutdown defense now. He's a great athlete, very good length for the position, with excellent hands and feet, and he is able to stay with most any SG. He always gives it 100% and is up in the chest of every opponent, and fights through picks and gets back into position vis a vis the ballhandler he's chasing virtually every time. He also never shies away from physical play - he's visibly frustrating his opponents now. Mayo was trying to slug him out of position on an in-bounds play last night, because KCP was up in his chest. KCP never backed up or backed off. Honestly, his D reminds me of a young Joe D.

His shooting is coming around nicely now. And he never turns the ball over - he plays hard and with high IQ, plays unafraid, and plays like he belongs in the league. He's clearly a starting quality player on top teams in this league. The only question is whether he'll become the kind of player who demands the ball and who his teammates trust to have the ball, like stars command. Right now, he blends great, and as a rookie lets his hard work and play, not his mouth do the talking.

From everything I can tell, his teammates and coaches all love him and the way he plays. And I think the fans are quite high on him and love this pick.

[tmorgan]

KCP is awesome. So intense. I look forward to the steal he gets every game waiting for an ill-advised cross-court pass.

[Warspite]

I just dont get the whole Iggy would be a better fit crap.

1993 Chris Mullen would be a better fit for this team
1975 Rick Barry would be a better fit for this team.
1973 Hondo would be a better fit for this team.
1986 Bird would a perfect fit for this team.

Maybe Joe should be fired for not getting any of those guys?

Bringing Iggy to Detroit was actualy harder than bringing 1986 Bird to Detroit. Yes time travel is easier than bringing Iggy to the Pistons.

Iggy was giving injury reports, plays and strategy to the Warriors during the playoffs. He quit on the Nuggets and was already helping the Warriors last yr. How you think he would ever want to play in Detroit is beyond me. More importantly why you would want someone with that kind of character on the Pistons disgusts me.

[Q00]

"The Pistons have never been that team and never had players like that."
YOUR words......then you go on to acknowledge that they indeed had teams/players that were efficient. Yeah.....sure.

Obviously I was referring to the Pistons not having teams/players like that - when at their best. Why would I say that speaking about all Pistons teams bad or good? The whole point of the post was referncing how the Pistons franchise was built under Dumars, and what led to the most success. Who cares what style they played when they weren't winning? So I don't know what you are even talking about anymore.

Do I like when Smith takes a bad shot? No, I don't like when any player does, but the reality is bad shots get taken in games all the time by all teams/players. That's part of the game. All that matters in the end is if you win. As long as they are winning, I don't see the need to nitpick a players shot selection after the games over and they already won. Smith isn't a perfect player, I get it. If he's helping us win and get back to relevency, that's all I care about, because that's all we signed him for. I wasn't expecting a perfect player so it doesn't bother me, I guess.

[Q00]

I just dont get the whole Iggy would be a better fit crap.

1993 Chris Mullen would be a better fit for this team
1975 Rick Barry would be a better fit for this team.
1973 Hondo would be a better fit for this team.
1986 Bird would a perfect fit for this team.

Maybe Joe should be fired for not getting any of those guys?

Bringing Iggy to Detroit was actualy harder than bringing 1986 Bird to Detroit. Yes time travel is easier than bringing Iggy to the Pistons.

Iggy was giving injury reports, plays and strategy to the Warriors during the playoffs. He quit on the Nuggets and was already helping the Warriors last yr. How you think he would ever want to play in Detroit is beyond me. More importantly why you would want someone with that kind of character on the Pistons disgusts me.

+1

[Blkbrd671]

Was just over in the Bucks team forum. Man they're salty! I guess they just want to hate on Jennings to help themselves forget how bad Knight is.

what you expect, they've always hated BJ and with good reason as he was nothing but a selfish chucker in Milwakee, now that they see him on Detroit and he's not chucking but playing point, it would make me just as salty. Also Jennings was right, he's never played with a FO like ours

[Snakebites]

I just dont get the whole Iggy would be a better fit crap.

1993 Chris Mullen would be a better fit for this team
1975 Rick Barry would be a better fit for this team.
1973 Hondo would be a better fit for this team.
1986 Bird would a perfect fit for this team.

Maybe Joe should be fired for not getting any of those guys?

Bringing Iggy to Detroit was actualy harder than bringing 1986 Bird to Detroit. Yes time travel is easier than bringing Iggy to the Pistons.

Iggy was giving injury reports, plays and strategy to the Warriors during the playoffs. He quit on the Nuggets and was already helping the Warriors last yr. How you think he would ever want to play in Detroit is beyond me. More importantly why you would want someone with that kind of character on the Pistons disgusts me.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to accept any of that as fact without evidence.

I agree that we were never getting Iggy, though.

[Brapman]

The Pistons are sorting out their lineups and rotations. They're discovering how important KCP is to the overall team defense (and individual shut down defense KCP brings on the key SG position is a huge factor), and learning that the big 3 bigmen sometimes needs to be a big 2 plus a shooter like Singler, depending on the matchups.

If Datome breaks through and can get major rotation time, I suspect that the team will really start to gel and crystallize and improve as the season does along.

But, the improvement is striking.

Here's a couple posts from the General Thread that I picked up on:

Kentavious Caldwell-Popes defensive impact since replacing Chauncey in the starting lineup

[/quote]

http://nba.si.com/2013/12/03/the-fundam ... rontcourt/

[E-Z]

Bad teams find ways to lose games, and Detroit was just the better of the two.

I'm still waiting for things to gel defensively, and they're just not there yet.

[Q00]

Bad teams find ways to lose games, and Detroit was just the better of the two.

I'm still waiting for things to gel defensively, and they're just not there yet.

How do explain the Miami win? Was Miami another bad team that found a way to lose? lol

Also you should pay closer attention to what they are doing defensively of late, because they are currently the 3rd best starting 5 in points allowed per possession.

The last 3 games they are allowing only 42% FG average as well.

I've been a big critic of the defense all year too, but they are definitely trending up on that side, you just aren't noticing it.

[DBC10]

The Pistons are sorting out their lineups and rotations. They're discovering how important KCP is to the overall team defense (and individual shut down defense KCP brings on the key SG position is a huge factor), and learning that the big 3 bigmen sometimes needs to be a big 2 plus a shooter like Singler, depending on the matchups.

If Datome breaks through and can get major rotation time, I suspect that the team will really start to gel and crystallize and improve as the season does along.

But, the improvement is striking.

Here's a couple posts from the General Thread that I picked up on:

Kentavious Caldwell-Popes defensive impact since replacing Chauncey in the starting lineup

http://nba.si.com/2013/12/03/the-fundam ... rontcourt/[/quote]Lockdown. Defender. Look at what KCP's making them give up though, the long, inefficient 2, which is music to any coaches on the defensive end's ears.

Chauncey is better to run the 2nd unit with the rising Stuckey at the 2, giving KCP some rest or KCP can play a little bit at the 3 as well.

KCP's defense has been insanely good so far. And I just love seeing defensive tenacity from younger guys like him. It's difficult to teach that.

[E-Z]

Bad teams find ways to lose games, and Detroit was just the better of the two.

I'm still waiting for things to gel defensively, and they're just not there yet.

How do explain the Miami win? Was Miami another bad team that found a way to lose? lol

Also you should pay closer attention to what they are doing defensively of late, because they are currently the 3rd best starting 5 in points allowed per possession.

The last 3 games they are allowing only 42% FG average as well.

I've been a big critic of the defense all year too, but they are definitely trending up on that side, you just aren't noticing it.

Miami had quite a few good looks from the perimeter, but their sloppy play did them no favors. Same is true for the Bucks.

One thing remains; Detroit's P&R defense is still god awful. Jennings rarely attempts to ice the pick and the bigs generally overplay the ball-handler as a result. Some of the bench guards are marginally better, but nothing consistent. A few random hedges by the bigs, again, nothing consistent.

Detroit is making improvements on that side of the ball, but it's painstakingly slow. Jennings needs to learn the concept of playing team oriented defense to say the least.

[tmorgan]

Jennings can learn quite a bit, but he's never going to be a good P&R defender because a decent screen completely flattens him. He weighs like 160 and that's never going to change.

[Q00]

Bad teams find ways to lose games, and Detroit was just the better of the two.

I'm still waiting for things to gel defensively, and they're just not there yet.

How do explain the Miami win? Was Miami another bad team that found a way to lose? lol

Also you should pay closer attention to what they are doing defensively of late, because they are currently the 3rd best starting 5 in points allowed per possession.

The last 3 games they are allowing only 42% FG average as well.

I've been a big critic of the defense all year too, but they are definitely trending up on that side, you just aren't noticing it.

Miami had quite a few good looks from the perimeter, but their sloppy play did them no favors. Same is true for the Bucks.

One thing remains; Detroit's P&R defense is still god awful. Jennings rarely attempts to ice the pick and the bigs generally overplay the ball-handler as a result. Some of the bench guards are marginally better, but nothing consistent. A few random hedges by the bigs, again, nothing consistent.

Detroit is making improvements on that side of the ball, but it's painstakingly slow. Jennings needs to learn the concept of playing team oriented defense to say the least.

I never said the defense was perfect, but as long as they are getting better every game that's all I can ask for.