Would you trade Josh Smith for an expiring contract?

[kurtis48239]

I would like to see cheeks try out this lineup.
c-dre/monroe
pf-smith/jorts

This would make this team more balanced and would provide a nice spark off the bench as well.I dont think we should even talk about smith until we see a lineup like this.

[Q00]

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/ ... heeks.html

David Mayo says 6% chance of Monroe coming off the bench.

0% chance of Smith coming off the bench.

And 1% of Drummond coming off the bench.

So....

[ARoS]

I think it needs to be considered more by some posters, that Detroit really is not a FA hotspot. The only FA's we can attract are players who's career is stalling a bit, and who no other teams really fancy that much. Like Smith and Jennings. That's it, we can't do any better than that (at least right now) I'm afraid. So be happy that we got a player who has Smith's talents, and hope we can somehow fit it together. At the very least he is a talent upgrade. You really think if we got an expiring for him, that expiring can then be used in a trade for a player with more talent? I don't. We already have expirings to be paired with Monroe in a package, so that is not required.

[LoboGuerrero]

Snakebites bringing the truth in this thread.

[Snakebites]

I think it needs to be considered more by some posters, that Detroit really is not a FA hotspot. The only FA's we can attract are players who's career is stalling a bit, and who no other teams really fancy that much. Like Smith and Jennings. That's it, we can't do any better than that (at least right now) I'm afraid. So be happy that we got a player who has Smith's talents, and hope we can somehow fit it together. At the very least he is a talent upgrade. You really think if we got an expiring for him, that expiring can then be used in a trade for a player with more talent? I don't. We already have expirings to be paired with Monroe in a package, so that is not required.

As I said in the original reply, I'd deal him for an expiring even if I was absolutely convinced we stood no chance on the free agent market.

This isn't about getting another crack at free agency. I think we've seen twice now what having lots of cap space gets this team. This is about erasing a mistake while there's still time.

I do not accept that he's better than nothing, and the only thing that saddens me is my conviction that we couldn't get an expiring for him and Dumars wouldn't be looking for that deal even if it were possible.

Of course, like the discussion earlier in the thread about changing the rotation to better suite the players we have, its another thing that simply isn't happening. We're tied to this trio coupled with a moribund perimeter rotation whether we like it or not, and Cheeks won't even modify it because its not PC to bench one of your primary 3 players. Life's rough for a Piston fan these days.

[sc8581]

Why do some people insist on calling it a "benching" just because a player might come off the bench instead of start but still play similar minutes? A benching is much different from this, it would be moving a player out of the rotation. Did Ginobili get benched?

[Snakebites]

Why do some people insist on calling it a "benching" just because a player might come off the bench instead of start but still play similar minutes? A benching is much different from this, it would be moving a player out of the rotation. Did Ginobili get benched?

Because the players see it as a demotion, and it carries those implications in that culture.

Sure, there are exceptions, not every player feels that way. But generally speaking, that's the way it is.

[sc8581]

Why do some people insist on calling it a "benching" just because a player might come off the bench instead of start but still play similar minutes? A benching is much different from this, it would be moving a player out of the rotation. Did Ginobili get benched?

Because the players see it as a demotion, and it carries those implications in that culture.

Sure, there are exceptions, not every player feels that way. But generally speaking, that's the way it is.

If they take it that way then it should push them to improve, if not then they are not the type of player we should have on the team anyway. Anybody who looks at it that way clearly doesn't care about their team or teammates and likely isn't very smart in general.

[Snakebites]

Why do some people insist on calling it a "benching" just because a player might come off the bench instead of start but still play similar minutes? A benching is much different from this, it would be moving a player out of the rotation. Did Ginobili get benched?

Because the players see it as a demotion, and it carries those implications in that culture.

Sure, there are exceptions, not every player feels that way. But generally speaking, that's the way it is.

If they take it that way then it should push them to improve, if not then they are not the type of player we should have on the team anyway. Anybody who looks at it that way clearly doesn't care about their team or teammates and likely isn't very smart in general.

You're not going to get any argument from me about this, I agree. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what we think, the situation is what it is because its what many PLAYERS think. Remember the reaction when we were going to bring Richard Hamilton off the bench in the Iverson season?

I'm just saying that's likely what's happening here, or at least part of what's happening here, and I call it "benching" because it does present an issue for a coach for whom managing egos is a major part of his job, as is the case for all pro coaches, and if you're a pro-coach you can't always afford to have the "if a player takes this attitude I don't want him on my team anyway" approach, especially not when the guy who signs your paychecks has invested quite a bit of money into each of these players.

I think we're all a little guilty of unfortunately ignoring the stupid but nonetheless very real political aspect of the game.

[sc8581]

Because the players see it as a demotion, and it carries those implications in that culture.

Sure, there are exceptions, not every player feels that way. But generally speaking, that's the way it is.

If they take it that way then it should push them to improve, if not then they are not the type of player we should have on the team anyway. Anybody who looks at it that way clearly doesn't care about their team or teammates and likely isn't very smart in general.

You're not going to get any argument from me about this, I agree. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what we think, the situation is what it is because its what many PLAYERS think. Remember the reaction when we were going to bring Richard Hamilton off the bench in the Iverson season?

I'm just saying that's likely what's happening here, or at least part of what's happening here, and I call it "benching" because it does present an issue for a coach for whom managing egos is a major part of his job, as is the case for all pro coaches, and if you're a pro-coach you can't always afford to have the "if a player takes this attitude I don't want him on my team anyway" approach, especially not when the guy who signs your paychecks has invested quite a bit of money into each of these players.

I think we're all a little guilty of unfortunately ignoring the stupid but nonetheless very real political aspect of the game.

Also the business aspect. I'd be willing to bet that Gores had a lot to do with Joe going after Smith last summer.

[StickAndMove]

Absolutely. I would've never signed him to begin with. I'd be ecstatic if he was traded for Richard Jefferson, Emeka Okafor, or Andrew Bynum (assuming the Pistons immediately waive him).

The Pistons should build around Drummond through the draft. Dre is still something like the seventh youngest player in the league. They can draft guys for the next two or three years whose primes will largely coincide with Drummond's. This would be my plan. The Pistons can and should be very successful 3-5 years from now. But for now, let the young guys develop, have patience. The team will struggle at first and gradually improve. This will allow for a natural progression and greater cohesion.

More specifically, my preference would be to retain the twin towers and surround them with shooters/ball handlers. A prospect similar to Iguodala would be a very good fit, such as Glenn Robinson III. Versatile players capable of spacing the floor, feeding the bigs, and playing multiple positions. Josh Smith would actually be a great fit if he could shoot.

Historically, successful small and mid-market teams are built through the draft, or otherwise acquiring young players before their true value is apparent. The core of the team should be built this way.

[MrBigShot]

^I'm not 100% sure, but many people say that Gores expects the team to make the playoffs and will fire Joe if they don't. Building through the draft at this point isn't an option, we wont be a bottom 8 team (pick is top 8 protected). I have to wonder if not signing Smith and enduring through one more losing season would've worked out better than what we have now though. There are some pretty great prospects in the draft.

[Snakebites]

^I'm not 100% sure, but many people say that Gores expects the team to make the playoffs and will fire Joe if they don't. Building through the draft at this point isn't an option, we wont be a bottom 8 team (pick is top 8 protected). I have to wonder if not signing Smith and enduring through one more losing season would've worked out better than what we have now though. There are some pretty great prospects in the draft.

As has been noted before, Gores doesn't even have to fire him.

If the team doesn't show enough progress by the end of the season he simply won't offer him a new contract.

Smith hasn't generated wins for this team, so I'm not sure why you're wondering any such thing. This team is no better now than it would be without Smith entirely.

[StickAndMove]

It's not too late, MrBigShot. There are only two teams that are more than 3.5 games behind the Pistons at this time. Especially if J-Smoove is traded for an expiring, it's plausible that this team can drop into the bottom 8.

If Gores is placing that short-term ultimatum on Dumars, that's very unfortunate. That type of situation is exactly what causes GMs to mortgage a team's future in an effort to save their jobs by bringing mediocre success in the short-term.

[Joe Berry]

1. Fire Joe Dumars
2. Trade Smith to the Nets for Paul Pierce expiring contract.
3. A new GM would have about 23 mil capspace to work with in the summer.
4. Pierce has sucked this season but he is an actual SF and could help this team make the playoffs, more so than Josh Smith.

[sc8581]

^I'm not 100% sure, but many people say that Gores expects the team to make the playoffs and will fire Joe if they don't. Building through the draft at this point isn't an option, we wont be a bottom 8 team (pick is top 8 protected). I have to wonder if not signing Smith and enduring through one more losing season would've worked out better than what we have now though. There are some pretty great prospects in the draft.

As has been noted before, Gores doesn't even have to fire him.

If the team doesn't show enough progress by the end of the season he simply won't offer him a new contract.

Smith hasn't generated wins for this team, so I'm not sure why you're wondering any such thing. This team is no better now than it would be without Smith entirely.

If Monroe gets traded for a good SG/SF and Smith moves to PF than it was a good signing, that's how I look at it and my opinion will not change until this is done and I am proven wrong.

[Han Solo]

Yes.

[princeofpalace]

I wouldn't hesitate. Trade Smith for Bynum and then go hard for a SF in 2014 free agency like Gordon Hawyard or Trevor Ariza.

[Snakebites]

^I'm not 100% sure, but many people say that Gores expects the team to make the playoffs and will fire Joe if they don't. Building through the draft at this point isn't an option, we wont be a bottom 8 team (pick is top 8 protected). I have to wonder if not signing Smith and enduring through one more losing season would've worked out better than what we have now though. There are some pretty great prospects in the draft.

As has been noted before, Gores doesn't even have to fire him.

If the team doesn't show enough progress by the end of the season he simply won't offer him a new contract.

Smith hasn't generated wins for this team, so I'm not sure why you're wondering any such thing. This team is no better now than it would be without Smith entirely.

If Monroe gets traded for a good SG/SF and Smith moves to PF than it was a good signing, that's how I look at it and my opinion will not change until this is done and I am proven wrong.

That's fine. I can wait.

[momed11]

I wouldn't hesitate. Trade Smith for Bynum and then go hard for a SF in 2014 free agency like Gordon Hawyard or Trevor Ariza.

Do it NOW.