Pistons sign Josh Smith!

[Invictus88]

I think it's pretty clear from this thread who was for and against the Josh Smith signing.

I also think it's becoming clear that neither side is going to be budging from their opinions which is kind of unfortunate. As the games go by there is data to refer to which I would hope would be sufficient to draw conclusions from.

One thing I did want to specifically comment on is that it's a fallacy to say that signing a player is better than doing nothing. This is completely untrue.

Signing a player that does not fit your team can hinder the development of younger player's games on the roster and financially cripple a team.

Specifically related to Josh Smith, I can't help but believe that if we didn't have him:

1. We would be forced to more aggressively develop Monroe as a PF and Drummond as a center. All the plays we run through Smith have to go somewhere. It's reasonable to assume that Monroe would take a bunch and that Drummond would have his opportunity to get planned post touches as well.

2. Monroe would be taking more shots from 8-16 feet. Smith takes the lion's share of these right now. Monroe might not take as many but there would be trickle-down effect here as well.

3. 3 point shots would be more distributed towards the wings / guards. No brainer. Smith hoists around 5 of these per game.

4. We would have a much better alley-oop game then we have now. I need to see if I can find numbers for this but we had an awful lot of these last year for easy baskets. We still have some this year but not nearly as many. You can blame part of this on opposing defenses adjusting but it's also because our offense turns into isolation mode with Smith too much of the time.

The defensive boost we were supposed to get from him simply hasn't happened. Our defense is arguably worse this year (-1.4 ppg) although some of this could be due to pacing. The whole theory that we would be dominating the paint hasn't really materialized either. Our opponents Points in the paint has only improved slightly (41.1 vs 42.9) and we are only averaging 1.3 more rebounds per game this year over last year. We are also averaging less blocks.

Josh Smith has basically taken Maxiell's 5.7 rebounds and stole 1 rebound per game from Monroe (who is averaging one rebound fewer). We run a bunch of isolation / plays through him that would have to be distributed somewhere else -- some of it falling on Monroe and at least a few to Drummond.

We are a noticeably worse 3 point shooting team this year (down from 35.6% to 29.4%) and are down around an assist per game.

The TLDR to all of this is that we haven't really improved in any appreciable way as a team this year compared to last. And after spending 56 million to 'upgrade our talent level' I think it's reasonable to assume that we would.

[Clarity]

I think it's pretty clear from this thread who was for and against the Josh Smith signing.

I also think it's becoming clear that neither side is going to be budging from their opinions which is kind of unfortunate. As the games go by there is data to refer to which I would hope would be sufficient to draw conclusions from.

One thing I did want to specifically comment on is that it's a fallacy to say that signing a player is better than doing nothing. This is completely untrue.

Signing a player that does not fit your team can hinder the development of younger player's games on the roster and financially cripple a team.

Specifically related to Josh Smith, I can't help but believe that if we didn't have him:

1. We would be forced to more aggressively develop Monroe as a PF and Drummond as a center. All the plays we run through Smith have to go somewhere. It's reasonable to assume that Monroe would take a bunch and that Drummond would have his opportunity to get planned post touches as well.

2. Monroe would be taking more shots from 8-16 feet. Smith takes the lion's share of these right now. Monroe might not take as many but there would be trickle-down effect here as well.

3. 3 point shots would be more distributed towards the wings / guards. No brainer. Smith hoists around 5 of these per game.

4. We would have a much better alley-oop game then we have now. I need to see if I can find numbers for this but we had an awful lot of these last year for easy baskets. We still have some this year but not nearly as many. You can blame part of this on opposing defenses adjusting but it's also because our offense turns into isolation mode with Smith too much of the time.

The defensive boost we were supposed to get from him simply hasn't happened. Our defense is arguably worse this year (-1.4 ppg) although some of this could be due to pacing. The whole theory that we would be dominating the paint hasn't really materialized either. Our opponents Points in the paint has only improved slightly (41.1 vs 42.9) and we are only averaging 1.3 more rebounds per game this year over last year. We are also averaging less blocks.

Josh Smith has basically taken Maxiell's 5.7 rebounds and stole 1 rebound per game from Monroe (who is averaging one rebound fewer). We run a bunch of isolation / plays through him that would have to be distributed somewhere else -- some of it falling on Monroe and at least a few to Drummond.

We are a noticeably worse 3 point shooting team this year (down from 35.6% to 29.4%) and are down around an assist per game.

The TLDR to all of this is that we haven't really improved in any appreciable way as a team this year compared to last. And after spending 56 million to 'upgrade our talent level' I think it's reasonable to assume that we would.

Maybe the most factual, thought out response i've ever seen on this board.

My issues with Josh (& they are listed in this thread) are that he first off wasnt at a position of need, we already have a PF that should be our PF for the next 10 years. Josh's bball IQ was a nightmare in Atlanta, its kept him at the level hes at while his athleticism & skill says he should be a perennial All Star.One of my boys whos a Hawks fan told me the day of the signing "Josh will make u hate bball".. & the biggest issue I had with this signing was what you just illustrated in detail. Josh hindering Monroe/Drum's development, the level of hindering is irrelevant, those 2 are our future.

[BadMofoPimp]

Josh Smith Will Prove Ya'll Wrong!!!

FYI. It just takes time to build team chemistry and with good teams that are not loaded with All-Star talent, it takes more than one year, not just 20 games.

[Invictus88]

Josh Smith Will Prove Ya'll Wrong!!!

FYI. It just takes time to build team chemistry and with good teams that are not loaded with All-Star talent, it takes more than one year, not just 20 games.

I really hope you are right BMP. But Atlanta had plenty of time to build chemistry with him and they ultimately let him walk away.

[BadMofoPimp]

Josh Smith Will Prove Ya'll Wrong!!!

FYI. It just takes time to build team chemistry and with good teams that are not loaded with All-Star talent, it takes more than one year, not just 20 games.

I really hope you are right BMP. But Atlanta had plenty of time to build chemistry with him and they ultimately let him walk away.

I feel it was mutual two parties heading in opposite directions with their new General Management and coaching. They wore each others welcome out.

[Clarity]

Josh Smith Will Prove Ya'll Wrong!!!

FYI. It just takes time to build team chemistry and with good teams that are not loaded with All-Star talent, it takes more than one year, not just 20 games.

Josh is what he is, that wont change.

The 2nd part is spot on though, but dont tell people on here that.

[Clarity]

Well done Joe, I knew you'd screw this up somehow.

lol I feel so bad for Monroe & Drummond, what a setback.

We were already going to become a great defensive team via Drummond.

Now we are going to stunt his & Monroe's growth & watch Josh Smith chuck 16 foot airballs on offense & get worked by Lebron & Durant on defense. Smith is a great defender when he tries but hes not checking Lebron/Durant/Melo for 35 mins a game.

We take 5 steps backwards on offense, 3 of our 5 starters are worthless from 4 feet & out. Like ive said thus far Smith is the worst fit out there offensively next to Monroe & Drummond.

Monroe & Drummond should have been the priority but Joe wanted to appease the idiot stick fans that just to spend money recklessly.

Oh well, this wasnt exactly shocking, he did this in 09 so why wouldnt he do it in 2013.

Its a bad move if they are gonna play him at the 3. Has anyone in the pistons FO even watched him play the last 9 years.

Luckily the endless whiners & complainers will have something to whine & complain about for the foreseeable future now.

[DetroitSho]

Well done Joe, I knew you'd screw this up somehow.

lol I feel so bad for Monroe & Drummond, what a setback.

We were already going to become a great defensive team via Drummond.

Now we are going to stunt his & Monroe's growth & watch Josh Smith chuck 16 foot airballs on offense & get worked by Lebron & Durant on defense. Smith is a great defender when he tries but hes not checking Lebron/Durant/Melo for 35 mins a game.

We take 5 steps backwards on offense, 3 of our 5 starters are worthless from 4 feet & out. Like ive said thus far Smith is the worst fit out there offensively next to Monroe & Drummond.

Monroe & Drummond should have been the priority but Joe wanted to appease the idiot stick fans that just to spend money recklessly.

Oh well, this wasnt exactly shocking, he did this in 09 so why wouldnt he do it in 2013.

Its a bad move if they are gonna play him at the 3. Has anyone in the pistons FO even watched him play the last 9 years.

Luckily the endless whiners & complainers will have something to whine & complain about for the foreseeable future now.

Just read back through the first handful of pages in this thread, and you were spot on from the beginning. I see why people are defending him now, they were screaming from the hilltops how it would work and now has to justify it.

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[vic]

I will confess, I hated the signing, but hoped it would work.

I knew it wouldn't work unless Josh changed his game, Jennings changed his game, Smennings deferred to Drumroe, and only 2 of the 3 bigs played at a time.

That would only happen with a coach that had a clue. Unfortunately, no one on the team has a clue... So while every other team is getting analytical we get stuck with big names with big mouths and losing bball IQ.

worst moves of the summer:
1. coach
2. Smith
3. not resigning Calderon
4. Losing middleton
5. Jennings

Burke would have been better but I don't have any problems with KCP so thats a wash.

[Piston Pete]

worst moves of the summer:
1. Retaining Dumars
2. Coach
3. Smith
4. Losing middleton
5. Billups

Fixed

[Cowology]

Not that we should be good... but I still believe that we should be better than we are. I don't know how much to put on Smith and how much on Dumars/Cheeks. Smith has always been a chucker, but he's never been this bad before. Clearly SF is not a good place for him, but would he slash more with a stretch 4 and a SG who could actually space the floor? How much of this is by design?

I'd still like to hang onto Smith, move him to PF and get some legit shooters at SG/SF and see what that does. Between the 2, Monroe is still the one most likely to actually bring back something of value and I don't think it'll hurt Smiths value any to hang onto him another 12 months and shorten that contract a little.