ESPN Insider article on trading Smith

[sc8581]

Yeah anybody with any sense realizes that Josh is the odd man out. I hope to God he gets moved, he's a disaster and a terrible fit next to Drummond. Ppl have to realize that Drummond will never get touches on offense with Josh Smith wanting to go 8 for 24 every other game.

How is Smith the reason Drummond doesn't get any post touches? I could see if he only got a few but he doesn't get any at all so that clearly can't be blamed on Smith.

[Notanoob]

I was hoping for a bit more value for Singler. He's a backup, sure, not a great player, but he's valuable because he plays smart, is a good cutter, makes the right passes...he shows up every night and doesn't really do much wrong. He's just not athletic enough to be a starter and he isn't a knockdown shooter. Do you have anyone better than Bogans who isn't getting paid a ton?

I was just suggesting putting Singler into the deal because we could just use Green and Crash at the 3, so he'd become movable. We could ship him elsewhere. Are you, and other Celtics fans, cool with just a Smith for Green and Crash swap?

[Notanoob]

Yeah anybody with any sense realizes that Josh is the odd man out. I hope to God he gets moved, he's a disaster and a terrible fit next to Drummond. Ppl have to realize that Drummond will never get touches on offense with Josh Smith wanting to go 8 for 24 every other game.

How is Smith the reason Drummond doesn't get any post touches? I could see if he only got a few but he doesn't get any at all so that clearly can't be blamed on Smith.

Smith is clearly part of the reason he isn't getting touches. Jennings is another, and Cheeks is a third. All are to blame to varying degrees, but JSmoove is going to shoulder the most blame because he's been abysmal and no one can stand watching him play. If anyone should be getting fewer touches, it's him.

[Q00]

I find it odd that someone who came into the league 11 years ago is somehow a PERFECT fit next to Drummond. Dude won't even be in the league anymore by the time Drummond is in his prime.

So what are you saying, whoever we get needs to be signed to a 10 yr contract so that when Drummond reaches his prime 6 years from now, that player will still be here and signed for the rest of his prime? lol

You can't make deals now for 6-7 years into the future.

Bosh has at least 3 years left at an elite level, maybe more looking at what guys like Dirk/Duncan are still doing at age 35-37. You sign him to a 4 year deal and we won't have to wait until Drummond reaches his prime to contend. If you haven't noticed he's already producing like an all-star Center. No need to wait until his prime anymore. Time to put the right vets in place around him that will allow us to contend right now. Monroe is not there yet and who knows if he will ever get there. And when I said Bosh is the perfect fit I was obviously talking skillset, not age. I can't think of another PF in the league whose skillset would fit better next to Drummond than Bosh. If you can, let me know.

How did you get anything close to that from what I said? I said whoever we get should be in the **** league PERIOD by the time Drummond ENTERs his prime. Quit making stupid ass strawman arguments.

EDIT: Because if they are a perfect **** fit, then we can resign them, or have them be relevant to what the team is doing in any way.

EDIT Again: I ignored the rest of your comment because I couldn't believe how stupid your strawman argument was. Just went over it, and Bosh hasn't had an elite level year in the past three years. How the **** does he have three more in him? You put Bosh on this team and he's back in a first option role, and that isn't a role he can handle. It was obvious in Toronto and it is obvious now. I have no problem getting pieces to contend with, but if you think that Bosh makes this team a contender then I pity you.

Do you even understand what you are talking about yourself? You want to target players for a team 6 years from now. How do you even know they will resign here when their initial contracts are up? Its the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'm not even going to get into your asinine statement that Bosh hasn't played at an elite level the past 3 years when he's been to the Finals every year as his teams primary frontcourt player and is about to make it 4 straight and three-peat as champions. If that's not playing at an elite level to you, then we have obviously have different definitions of elite. It sounds like you define it based on regular season stats or something. Bosh is light years better/more complete of a player now than he was in Toronto, and no one said anything about him being a #1 option, strawman. And if you actually read my posts instead of "stopped reading" when it was convenient for your argument, you would know that I never said anything about adding Bosh making this team a contender either. I said adding Bosh - plus Afflalo and Ariza - could make us a contender in the east, strawman.

[Q00]

Josh is shooting 5% better than Monroe outside of the paint. 5%! And he's been in the league a decade. Now tell me why, he's a better fit with Drummond.

He shoots 5% better out of the paint, finishes 5% better at the rim, and is better equipped to defend the PF position.

So he's better inside and out on both ends of the court.

For all the talk about Smith's shooting %, he actually beats Monroe at his own game inside. The majority of Monroe's shots are at the rim, yet Smith finishes 69% of his shots at the rim vs 64% for Monroe. So if Smith is better inside and out offensively, and better at defending jumpshooters and protecting the paint on defense, then what isn't better about Smith?

Noah is better than Drummond right now and is a better fit next to Josh? Let's trade Drummond for Noah. That's the logic you're using.

That's not even remotely close to what I said. Smith isn't the franchise player, so finding who fits best next to him has nothing to do with finding the best fit next to Drummond. You're confused.

[Neptune]

Yeah anybody with any sense realizes that Josh is the odd man out. I hope to God he gets moved, he's a disaster and a terrible fit next to Drummond. Ppl have to realize that Drummond will never get touches on offense with Josh Smith wanting to go 8 for 24 every other game.

I don't see how you can say that. Smith isn't the reason Drummond gets few touches. This is Drummond's 2nd season in the league and he's only 20 years old. The dude isn't good offensively yet.

[RSCD3_]

So what are you saying, whoever we get needs to be signed to a 10 yr contract so that when Drummond reaches his prime 6 years from now, that player will still be here and signed for the rest of his prime? lol

You can't make deals now for 6-7 years into the future.

Bosh has at least 3 years left at an elite level, maybe more looking at what guys like Dirk/Duncan are still doing at age 35-37. You sign him to a 4 year deal and we won't have to wait until Drummond reaches his prime to contend. If you haven't noticed he's already producing like an all-star Center. No need to wait until his prime anymore. Time to put the right vets in place around him that will allow us to contend right now. Monroe is not there yet and who knows if he will ever get there. And when I said Bosh is the perfect fit I was obviously talking skillset, not age. I can't think of another PF in the league whose skillset would fit better next to Drummond than Bosh. If you can, let me know.

How did you get anything close to that from what I said? I said whoever we get should be in the **** league PERIOD by the time Drummond ENTERs his prime. Quit making stupid ass strawman arguments.

EDIT: Because if they are a perfect **** fit, then we can resign them, or have them be relevant to what the team is doing in any way.

EDIT Again: I ignored the rest of your comment because I couldn't believe how stupid your strawman argument was. Just went over it, and Bosh hasn't had an elite level year in the past three years. How the **** does he have three more in him? You put Bosh on this team and he's back in a first option role, and that isn't a role he can handle. It was obvious in Toronto and it is obvious now. I have no problem getting pieces to contend with, but if you think that Bosh makes this team a contender then I pity you.

Do you even understand what you are talking about yourself? You want to target players for a team 6 years from now. How do you even know they will resign here when their initial contracts are up? Its the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'm not even going to get into your asinine statement that Bosh hasn't played at an elite level the past 3 years when he's been to the Finals every year as his teams primary frontcourt player and is about to make it 4 straight and three-peat as champions. If that's not playing at an elite level to you, then we have obviously have different definitions of elite. It sounds like you define it based on regular season stats or something. Bosh is light years better/more complete of a player now than he was in Toronto, and no one said anything about him being a #1 option, strawman. And if you actually read my posts instead of "stopped reading" when it was convenient for your argument, you would know that I never said anything about adding Bosh making this team a contender either. I said adding Bosh - plus Afflalo and Ariza - could make us a contender in the east, strawman.

This guy probably thinks james worthy or robert parish were scrubs.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Who-rod]

I was hoping for a bit more value for Singler. He's a backup, sure, not a great player, but he's valuable because he plays smart, is a good cutter, makes the right passes...he shows up every night and doesn't really do much wrong. He's just not athletic enough to be a starter and he isn't a knockdown shooter. Do you have anyone better than Bogans who isn't getting paid a ton?

I was just suggesting putting Singler into the deal because we could just use Green and Crash at the 3, so he'd become movable. We could ship him elsewhere. Are you, and other Celtics fans, cool with just a Smith for Green and Crash swap?

I would say most Celtic fans I have spoken to are split on the idea, which generally makes me think it's a pretty good trade. I think I personally would do the following deal:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kd87wl7

(actually Anthony can't be packaged again, so it would have to be Bogans).

[Q00]

How did you get anything close to that from what I said? I said whoever we get should be in the **** league PERIOD by the time Drummond ENTERs his prime. Quit making stupid ass strawman arguments.

EDIT: Because if they are a perfect **** fit, then we can resign them, or have them be relevant to what the team is doing in any way.

EDIT Again: I ignored the rest of your comment because I couldn't believe how stupid your strawman argument was. Just went over it, and Bosh hasn't had an elite level year in the past three years. How the **** does he have three more in him? You put Bosh on this team and he's back in a first option role, and that isn't a role he can handle. It was obvious in Toronto and it is obvious now. I have no problem getting pieces to contend with, but if you think that Bosh makes this team a contender then I pity you.

Do you even understand what you are talking about yourself? You want to target players for a team 6 years from now. How do you even know they will resign here when their initial contracts are up? Its the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'm not even going to get into your asinine statement that Bosh hasn't played at an elite level the past 3 years when he's been to the Finals every year as his teams primary frontcourt player and is about to make it 4 straight and three-peat as champions. If that's not playing at an elite level to you, then we have obviously have different definitions of elite. It sounds like you define it based on regular season stats or something. Bosh is light years better/more complete of a player now than he was in Toronto, and no one said anything about him being a #1 option, strawman. And if you actually read my posts instead of "stopped reading" when it was convenient for your argument, you would know that I never said anything about adding Bosh making this team a contender either. I said adding Bosh - plus Afflalo and Ariza - could make us a contender in the east, strawman.

This guy probably thinks james worthy or robert parish were scrubs.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Me or him?

[Warspite]

I was hoping for a bit more value for Singler. He's a backup, sure, not a great player, but he's valuable because he plays smart, is a good cutter, makes the right passes...he shows up every night and doesn't really do much wrong. He's just not athletic enough to be a starter and he isn't a knockdown shooter. Do you have anyone better than Bogans who isn't getting paid a ton?

I was just suggesting putting Singler into the deal because we could just use Green and Crash at the 3, so he'd become movable. We could ship him elsewhere. Are you, and other Celtics fans, cool with just a Smith for Green and Crash swap?

I would say most Celtic fans I have spoken to are split on the idea, which generally makes me think it's a pretty good trade. I think I personally would do the following deal:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kd87wl7

(actually Anthony can't be packaged again, so it would have to be Bogans).

You could keep Anthony. Crash and Green for Smith and CV is something I would do in a heartbeat.

[DocRI]

I was hoping for a bit more value for Singler. He's a backup, sure, not a great player, but he's valuable because he plays smart, is a good cutter, makes the right passes...he shows up every night and doesn't really do much wrong. He's just not athletic enough to be a starter and he isn't a knockdown shooter. Do you have anyone better than Bogans who isn't getting paid a ton?

I was just suggesting putting Singler into the deal because we could just use Green and Crash at the 3, so he'd become movable. We could ship him elsewhere. Are you, and other Celtics fans, cool with just a Smith for Green and Crash swap?

I would say most Celtic fans I have spoken to are split on the idea, which generally makes me think it's a pretty good trade. I think I personally would do the following deal:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kd87wl7

(actually Anthony can't be packaged again, so it would have to be Bogans).

You could keep Anthony. Crash and Green for Smith and CV is something I would do in a heartbeat.

^ That Smith & CV for Green & Wallace proposal seems oddly familiar to me …

Another version that's made the rounds has Jerebko in place of CV; that's obviously even better for us, but I'd still be willing to send CV's expiring if that's what it would take.

[Piston Pete]

I would do Smith/JJ for Wallace/Green

I would NOT do Smith/CV for Wallace/Green


Reasoning:
Smith ~ Green (I will admit that Green might have a little more value since his contract is shorter).

But Wallace is terrible and not worth CV and his expiring. Not nearly. But JJ? I would bite that bullet, but still be slightly upset about it. I really don't want Wallace here, not at all.



Smith/Jerebko/Bynum

for

Wallace/Green/Faverani

[hiphop1]

BOSTON INCOMING
Josh Smith
Jerebko
Datome

DETROIT INCOMING
Gerald Wallace
Jeff Green

[sc8581]

Yeah anybody with any sense realizes that Josh is the odd man out. I hope to God he gets moved, he's a disaster and a terrible fit next to Drummond. Ppl have to realize that Drummond will never get touches on offense with Josh Smith wanting to go 8 for 24 every other game.

How is Smith the reason Drummond doesn't get any post touches? I could see if he only got a few but he doesn't get any at all so that clearly can't be blamed on Smith.

Smith is clearly part of the reason he isn't getting touches. Jennings is another, and Cheeks is a third. All are to blame to varying degrees, but JSmoove is going to shoulder the most blame because he's been abysmal and no one can stand watching him play. If anyone should be getting fewer touches, it's him.

My point is that Drummond won't get touches in the post whether Smith takes 30 shots or 2 shots. That's all on Cheeks and Drummond.

[RSCD3_]

Do you even understand what you are talking about yourself? You want to target players for a team 6 years from now. How do you even know they will resign here when their initial contracts are up? Its the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'm not even going to get into your asinine statement that Bosh hasn't played at an elite level the past 3 years when he's been to the Finals every year as his teams primary frontcourt player and is about to make it 4 straight and three-peat as champions. If that's not playing at an elite level to you, then we have obviously have different definitions of elite. It sounds like you define it based on regular season stats or something. Bosh is light years better/more complete of a player now than he was in Toronto, and no one said anything about him being a #1 option, strawman. And if you actually read my posts instead of "stopped reading" when it was convenient for your argument, you would know that I never said anything about adding Bosh making this team a contender either. I said adding Bosh - plus Afflalo and Ariza - could make us a contender in the east, strawman.

This guy probably thinks james worthy or robert parish were scrubs.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Me or him?

The other guy, who seemed to be discouraging bosh because he's a great 3rd option, on a championship team and one who could definitely help us

[Q00]

This guy probably thinks james worthy or robert parish were scrubs.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Me or him?

The other guy, who seemed to be discouraging bosh be because he's agreat 3rd option, on a championship team and one who could definitely help us

yeah I agree. Bosh would be huge upgrade over Monroe.

[DBC10]

I would do Smith/JJ for Wallace/Green

I would NOT do Smith/CV for Wallace/Green


Reasoning:
Smith ~ Green (I will admit that Green might have a little more value since his contract is shorter).

But Wallace is terrible and not worth CV and his expiring. Not nearly. But JJ? I would bite that bullet, but still be slightly upset about it. I really don't want Wallace here, not at all.



Smith/Jerebko/Bynum

for

Wallace/Green/Faverani

Wallace and Green for Smith and CV is something I'd look into. Or combination of that and the likes of JJ, Bynum, etc.

Or even Wallace + 1st rounder for Smith straight up.

Wallace's contract is worse than Smith's (Somehow) and Smith is going to be an instant contributor to that lineup. We basically undo the summer of 2013 slowly but surely but do it right this time by actually adding talent that actually recognizes a semblance of fit. We're not going to be contending for another 3 years (minimum) regardless.

[Notanoob]

Do the Celtics have any cheap assets that they could send to us instead of Jeff Green? I'd like to have a bit more cap space.

Something along the lines of Crash, crappy pick/cheap low level prospect for Smith, Jerebko and Bynum? This way we can extend Monroe and clear out a few role players we don't need to sign a SF who can actually start. Then we can turn Singler into a tradable asset as a super-cheap backup SF/glue guy. JJ and Bynum are only short term obligations, so it's not like the Celtics are worse off financially in the long term, it just frees up some space to let the Pistons win now as mandated by Gores.

[colincb]

Do the Celtics have any cheap assets that they could send to us instead of Jeff Green? I'd like to have a bit more cap space.

Something along the lines of Crash, crappy pick/cheap low level prospect for Smith, Jerebko and Bynum? This way we can extend Monroe and clear out a few role players we don't need to sign a SF who can actually start. Then we can turn Singler into a tradable asset as a super-cheap backup SF/glue guy. JJ and Bynum are only short term obligations, so it's not like the Celtics are worse off financially in the long term, it just frees up some space to let the Pistons win now as mandated by Gores.

Wallace and Bogans works. Bogans has 2 years left after this, but they are on a team option. Both Wallace and Smith are $3-4 Million too high IMO with Smith being the bigger problem off the court. Smith BTW doesn't help BOS this year (except as a tank commander at SF if they were to play him there). BOS has 4 players who already play PF, however, and adding Smith creates a bigger blockade for the younger guys (and Sullinger looks like he is going to be a very good player).

A bigger trade that might work that would break that PF logjam for BOS would be DET taking PF Bass for 2 years at 6.5M and BOS taking Datome (whoever he is), Bynum, and Singler, all who are on 2 year deals. Bass is better than any of those three, but Singler gives BOS a cheap backup SF and Bynum's a serviceable backup PG.