Gary harris vs kcp

[ImHeisenberg]

KCP's quite the athlete. Elite speed and lateral quickness. But yeah, if Harris is the best one available, I have no problem in taking him.

It wouldn't be the worst thing. Stuckey is likely gone, we need guard depth.

[Redeemed]

I'm not familiar enough with Gary Harris to speak on him. I would need some of my fellow Piston fans to give me a little impromtu scouting report, still based on what I've read he seems to be described as a bit of a Bradley Beal type. Is that a fair comparison?

He's not an exceptional athlete but he seems to be a skilled scorer.

As for KCP, the way he was used this season threw shade on what he's capable of doing. The kid has, as it has already been stated, elite athleticism. He routinely gets a breakaway steal or a chasedown block. He lacks strengthen, but that's easily acquired in offseason training. He has a ridiculously high motor. He's a harassing defender. He has the potential to be a dependable scorer in the league, at least he showed glimpses of that.

I'm not ready to give up on KCP.
I have seen nothing to warrant giving up on the kid.

[pistontr]

kcp can play at SF position 10-15 minutes

[Redeemed]

kcp can play at SF position 10-15 minutes

Do you see Gary Harris as a starting SG?

[pistontr]

kcp can play at SF position 10-15 minutes

Do you see Gary Harris as a starting SG?

I did not watch college basketball but I read and watch scout reports. I think it is ok to select him.

and as I understand, he is more confident than kcp with the ball.

[Redeemed]

kcp can play at SF position 10-15 minutes

Do you see Gary Harris as a starting SG?

I did not watch college basketball but I read and watch scout reports. I think it is ok to select him.

and as I understand, he is more confident than kcp with the ball.

Ok thanks. I just read where ESPN compares Harris to Terrico White, Xavier Henry, Daniel Gibson, and Jeremy Lamb. The only good comparison in that list is Lamb who is under utilized in OKC.

[Scout Taron]

I'd say they're comparable prospects. KCP is more athletic, better defensively, and a better finisher while Harris is a better midrange shooter. I don't really like Harris as a prospect though. He'll be an okay player, but his upside seems like a solid starter considering his weakness going to the basket.



Shot chart, and here's an alarming stat from DX

"Rarely called upon to make a play in one on one situations, Harris is just an average ball-handler at this stage, not doing a great job of getting low to the ground and lacking the first step or overwhelming quickness needed to turn the corner against better defenders. He's mostly a straight-line, downhill dribbler, which hurts his efficiency as a scorer inside the arc (51% 2P%), and renders him largely ineffective as a paint-scorer in the half-court. He only converted only 25 shots at the rim in the half court in 35 games this season, and did so on middling efficiency, hitting 45.5% of his shots at the rim in these settings, a very poor rate."

[tmorgan]

This is basically what I was thinking. If Harris had a Stauskas-esque handle, which would give him a big advantage over KCP as a well-rounded 2 guard, then sure, he'd be the better prospect. He doesn't. He has the same flaws as KCP (weak NBA handle, weak NBA passing skills), a single area at which he's better (shot, which is still debatable), and a bunch of areas he's weaker in (smaller, less athletic, probably less of a defender).

KCP > Harris

In fact, Harris <?> Stauskas is actually quite debatable. If there wasn't the racial difference to cast doubt (it's true, there aren't that many white guards in the NBA), I'd guess Nik would go earlier. He still might. Either one of those two guys at #8 is a huge reach, though.

[BadMofoPimp]

Draft Harris and keep both.

[No-Man]

Caldwell-Pope is bigger, and that's about it.
He does not have Harris intagibles, on both sides nor his IQ and character, Harris is a winner and a pretty high character guy, the type of player that will start for 15 years in the league.
He is also stronger, more explosive, and a better shooter, got better handles and passing ability too, is better playing within a system, have more experience competing at a high level than Caldwell-Pope too.

[tmorgan]

Caldwell-Pope is bigger, and that's about it.
He does not have Harris intagibles, on both sides nor his IQ and character, Harris is a winner and a pretty high character guy, the type of player that will start for 15 years in the league.
He is also stronger, more explosive, and a better shooter, got better handles and passing ability too, is better playing within a system, have more experience competing at a high level than Caldwell-Pope too.

I've agreed with and appreciated much of what you've said about other players, but this is straight garbage.

Intangibles: Ridiculous. Complete opinion, nothing more.
IQ: I can't speak to that, but KCP doesn't strike me as low-IQ at all, so Harris would need to be Magic Johnson to have a big edge there. He isn't. I watched him play plenty of times, and I don't know what the hell you're speaking of.
Character: Ridiculous. KCP has been in zero trouble and is a hard worker, so that's a tie at best. No sulking when benched, always ready to play when called upon.
Winner: That's who you play with, not who you are. At best you can say he was recruited by a better college program, that's it.
Stronger: Perhaps, but for a guard, quicker is more important, and that's KCP.
More explosive: A lie.
Better shooter: This I already conditionally accepted, but you'd like your good shooter to shoot better than 35% from 3, which is what Harris shot last season. Did you know KCP shot 37% from 3 as the only double-digit scorer on a horrid Georgia team? He was doubled on the perimeter much of that season.
Passer: On a better team, Harris just averaged 2.7 assists. KCP averaged 1.8 on a team full of scrubs. If Harris is better, he's still mediocre, and neither is a competent option as a fill-in point, so it makes very little difference.
Handles: This probably is Harris, by a little, but his pro handle is weak, just like KCP's.
More Experience at a higher level: This is just dumb, unless you think Big Ten > NBA. Coming out of school, sure, but we're talking about replacing KCP with Harris as a starting two, as in, RIGHT NOW.

This was just awful. Inaccurate and awful.

[Laimbeer]

Harris is the more polished player. He has a more well-rounded and reliable offensive game particularly in the half-court. He's got a better shot, handles, and passing ability. He's a more fundamentally sound player with a more refined skill set. KCP has length quickness, and explosiveness - athletic tools - to a slightly greater degree - but don't underestimate Harris in this department. He is an athlete. Both are character guys and hard workers. You could argue KCP has more potential, but right now Harris is pretty comfortably the better player.

I like Harris a lot, and that's the problem with our draft position. Our ideal position to draft would be the three or maybe the one and I can't see anybody who plays either of those positions being the BPA at 8. It's shaping up to be someone like Harris or Vonleh.

[HotelVitale]

Dont make the mistake of the thinking guards that shot well from 3 as in the man in college and had bad shooting their rookie year wont develop their shooting as a less ball dominant player.
Case in point aaron afflalo
I wouldnt write kcp off as a non shooter so early especially given the lack of rhythm he's been getting
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Right, makes no sense to judge a guy who's learning a new role and new skills on top of adjusting to NBA size and speed. Another example: Gordon Hayward, whom lots of us are eager to pay $11m+ per year, had roughly the same PER and fewer win shares his rookie year as KCP. His best and most unique skills now--shot creation, distribution--were exactly what he was terrible at his first year.

I still think we should give Harris a look if we think he's close to being BPA, but we shouldn't think that either he or KCP is guaranteed to be a solution to our wing problem. Neither is a surefire prospect and guys in their range (#8-12 in the draft) don't have a great history of becoming good quality starters. We need to hope that KCP and Harris (if we get him) develop but not count on either to be a key contributor going forward.

[ImHeisenberg]

Laimbeer took this topic to the draft forum (to recruit more morons, I'm sure). And someone in there was arguing with me that Harris is a better defender than KCP.

[jakebernat]

i could see harris developing into a bradley beal type of player, and i can see KCP developing into a bruce bowen/rip hamilton type of player.

i like both guys, but i really like ours. heis pointed out that stuckey's likely gone, so we'll need guard depth, but i feel like that's something we can solve via FA. this is going to be our chance to add one more significant piece to our young core, so i believe that we should use it on a position of need, even if it takes trading up/down.