Game 8: Detroit Pistons (5-2) Vs. Sacramento Kings (1-7) 10:00PM

[Warspite]

Going .500 on a west coast trip is something to be very proud of.

[Todd3]

The difference between Cousins and Drummond (and the game as whole) last night was Cousins scored 12 unexpected points from 3 and Drummond isn't a 3pt shooter (or 3pt defender).

Take those away and Cousins has 21 & 9 to Dre's 14 & 17 and we win 92-89.

Stan should have had someone else guarding those 3s because the moment Dre goes to guard him there, Cousins dribbles past him and we have no rim protection. That was a coaching error.

[Spider156]

It was a sorry effort by our team. We need better ball movement and because guys aren't making shots we're not passing it. It's gonna take Jennings to give the passing and scoring more dynamic. It took Meeks to get us into a good shooting rhythm but he's injured. Injuries make a difference. You saw why

[ImHeisenberg]

We should have beaten the Kings. Then again, the Hawks should have beaten us on opening night. It's the NBA, guys go off. Cousins obviously had a fire lit under hit butt from that Karl fight.

We get some rest before playing the Clippers, and the Lakers have been awful. So, I feel like we're going 500 at worst, possibly better. Which isn't bad overall.

[Todd3]

It was a sorry effort by our team. We need better ball movement and because guys aren't making shots we're not passing it. It's gonna take Jennings to give the passing and scoring more dynamic. It took Meeks to get us into a good shooting rhythm but he's injured. Injuries make a difference. You saw why

Not trying to be a doom & gloomer, but I'm starting to think our ball movement issues could be more due to roster construction than guys unwillingness to pass or just not making shots. We don't really have any great spot shooters except Ersan/Tolliver and both play the same position and are 5th options (who aren't going to affect much in that regard by themselves). Aside from Dre's pick & roll/putbacks, all of our main options (Reggie, Morris, SJ, KCP to a lesser extent) are needing multiple dribbles to score a lot of the time right now (Dre as well when in the post). If you have 5 great spot shooters, you don't ever need to dribble to score. You can just move off the ball and pass the ball around to the open guy who shoots and scores, resulting in great ball movement by default and good looks for all your shooters.

Conversely, if you have 5 not so great spot shooters who need multiple dribbles to score... the more guys have to dribble... the less passes you'll make within a 24 sec clock by default. So whereas a team with 5 great shooters (who dont need to waste time dribbling) could have 10 passes on a possession, we end up with only 2-3.

Yes we can pass the ball around all day if we want, but if we want to score, usually someone is going to have to go iso in the end, because no matter who ends up with it they can't just raise up and shoot to score when open like a great spot shooting team can (we can but it doesn't play to our strength). So if we move the ball around to the open guy, instead of just raising up and shooting, he needs to put the ball back down to create his shot, which allows the defense to reset and we're right back where we started the possession. And all that ball movement was for nothing as it got no one a better look at their shot. In fact makes their iso more difficult because then they have to create something with the clock running down.

Obviously our guys can and do make some spot up shots off the ball, but overall that isn't our strength and that is one of our problems.

We may need to add more spot shooters before this ball movement issue is resolved. Jennings will help some, but he is really more of the same iso scorer that we already have and is the problem.

They really need to get Bullock going somehow because he is the exact type of player that could help.

If Stan is set on a 9 man rotation, I'd rather give Bullock another chance than more of Blake and move SJ to backup PG.

This isn't to say we are f'd because we still have a top 10 caliber defense & rebounding team that can carry us to wins,, but the side effect of that is guys aren't going to have the energy every night (like last night) because it takes a lot of energy to win shooting 40% like we have been, and that eventually wears you down defensively. Especially when the starters are playing so much.

What we need is either more defensive depth or more spot up shooters, preferably both in one. Until then we will probably have to rely on a lot of iso ball, 2 man pick & roll game, and Dre putbacks to manufacture offense in the halfcourt. The transition game is where we could really help minimize the lack of shooters, if we can get better there (and we have the personnel and defense to do so).

[kurtis48239]

Going .500 on a west coast trip is something to be very proud of.

This.

All of a sudden there is to much doom and gloom going on,posters need to chill and at least wait until after our road trip.

[Blkbrd671]

Going .500 on a west coast trip is something to be very proud of.

This.

All of a sudden there is to much doom and gloom going on,posters need to chill and at least wait until after our road trip.

good morning, i see you enjoyed your beauty rest.

if you read the thread you can see you avoided quite a bit of stress and got some good sleep

[kurtis48239]

Going .500 on a west coast trip is something to be very proud of.

This.

All of a sudden there is to much doom and gloom going on,posters need to chill and at least wait until after our road trip.

good morning, i see you enjoyed your beauty rest.

if you read the thread you can see you avoided quite a bit of stress and got some good sleep

Lol,I tried,fell asleep right when it started.

Now that were doing better ,I see we have quite a few posters,I guess more posters =more opinions.Good and bad thing.

Anyone that can be down on dre,I just dont get it,the kid had a bad game of 14/17,Trade that no talent bastard now lol.Yea he could of played better defense,but honestly,cousins was,playing out of his mind,if I heard right,the most 3s in his carreer?Rudy gay getting hot to.I will agree we need more ball movement,but other than that,lets put the razor blades away until we come home .

[Spider156]

It was just a bad game

Kings were in a perfect storm to win

It's just not a good excuse

We got cocky

It was disappointing

It happens

Learning lesson

Get over it

[RasheedTupac]

What i learned about the Pistons yesterday

-andre Drummond isnt as good as his 20 20 games show.
-when Reggie Jackson plays slow, hes no different from jrue holiday
-kcp is extremely weak and cant triple threat
-As bad as we/I roast steve blake, he runs the pg position better than jackson
-svg biggest problem of his career is still prevalent (rotations)
-marcus morris is cool in my book
-stanley johnson should lead the team in fg attempts
-if Jennings returns to form, we may need consider trading rj. His contract isnt worth watching him pound the ball in 1 spot for 10 seconds.
-We run 2 plays the whole game
-running plays for drummond is risky cause his post game isn't elite and shoots worse than deandre

Im still shocked/pissed sj comes off the bench for kcp. Kcp has no potential to be an elite player. Meanwhile, svg is so dumb he play sj at the 3 since hes big and strong. Newsflash, if hes at the 3, he cant use his size and strength to his advantage. Typical nba sg is 6'4 to 6'6 and weigh 210-225. Typical nba sf is 6'8 to 6'10 225-240. Johnson got maximum sg height with sf/pf frame. Lets create some mismatches for him.

Had to get that off my chest. Lets go pistons

Stopped reading after "Blake runs the pg position better than Jackson" lol


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[Blkbrd671]

What i learned about the Pistons yesterday

-andre Drummond isnt as good as his 20 20 games show.
-when Reggie Jackson plays slow, hes no different from jrue holiday
-kcp is extremely weak and cant triple threat
-As bad as we/I roast steve blake, he runs the pg position better than jackson
-svg biggest problem of his career is still prevalent (rotations)
-marcus morris is cool in my book
-stanley johnson should lead the team in fg attempts
-if Jennings returns to form, we may need consider trading rj. His contract isnt worth watching him pound the ball in 1 spot for 10 seconds.
-We run 2 plays the whole game
-running plays for drummond is risky cause his post game isn't elite and shoots worse than deandre

Im still shocked/pissed sj comes off the bench for kcp. Kcp has no potential to be an elite player. Meanwhile, svg is so dumb he play sj at the 3 since hes big and strong. Newsflash, if hes at the 3, he cant use his size and strength to his advantage. Typical nba sg is 6'4 to 6'6 and weigh 210-225. Typical nba sf is 6'8 to 6'10 225-240. Johnson got maximum sg height with sf/pf frame. Lets create some mismatches for him.

Had to get that off my chest. Lets go pistons

Stopped reading after "Blake runs the pg position better than Jackson" lol


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

i stopped after expecting Andre to average 20/20 all season

[Todd3]

What i learned about the Pistons yesterday

-andre Drummond isnt as good as his 20 20 games show.
-when Reggie Jackson plays slow, hes no different from jrue holiday
-kcp is extremely weak and cant triple threat
-As bad as we/I roast steve blake, he runs the pg position better than jackson
-svg biggest problem of his career is still prevalent (rotations)
-marcus morris is cool in my book
-stanley johnson should lead the team in fg attempts
-if Jennings returns to form, we may need consider trading rj. His contract isnt worth watching him pound the ball in 1 spot for 10 seconds.
-We run 2 plays the whole game
-running plays for drummond is risky cause his post game isn't elite and shoots worse than deandre

Im still shocked/pissed sj comes off the bench for kcp. Kcp has no potential to be an elite player. Meanwhile, svg is so dumb he play sj at the 3 since hes big and strong. Newsflash, if hes at the 3, he cant use his size and strength to his advantage. Typical nba sg is 6'4 to 6'6 and weigh 210-225. Typical nba sf is 6'8 to 6'10 225-240. Johnson got maximum sg height with sf/pf frame. Lets create some mismatches for him.

Had to get that off my chest. Lets go pistons

Stopped reading after "Blake runs the pg position better than Jackson" lol


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

i stopped after expecting Andre to average 20/20 all season

I stopped after Stanley should lead the team in FGA

[Todd3]

Pistons are 6th in opp TOs at 17.1 per game. Warriors are 4th at 17.7.

Pistons avg 9.8 ppg in transition. Warriors avg 24.

That is 14 ppg of untapped offense we could be capitalizing on but aren't.

Getting our run game going off these turnovers could be the trick to fixing the offense. No reason they can score 24 ppg off 17 TO/gm and we can't. We are just as fast and athletic.

This sounds crazy but those pts in transition are the only difference between GS offense and ours right now (points wise). They avg 113 ppg. We avg 98 ppg. If we were maximizing our points off turnovers like they are, we'd be avg 112 ppg, and have a better FG% too getting more layups/dunks in transition. It would probably make guys better jumpshooters in the halfcourt too, getting some easy ones first to build some confidence.

That is one spot Jennings should really help. He is great in transition.

[joedumars1]

Pistons are 6th in opp TOs at 17.1 per game. Warriors are 4th at 17.7.

Pistons avg 9.8 ppg in transition. Warriors avg 24.

That is 14 ppg of untapped offense we could be capitalizing on but aren't.

Getting our run game going off these turnovers could be the trick to fixing the offense. No reason they can score 24 ppg off 17 TO/gm and we can't. We are just as fast and athletic.

This sounds crazy but those pts in transition are the only difference between GS offense and ours right now (points wise). They avg 113 ppg. We avg 98 ppg. If we were maximizing our points off turnovers like they are, we'd be avg 112 ppg, and have a better FG% too getting more layups/dunks in transition. It would probably make guys better jumpshooters in the halfcourt too, getting some easy ones first to build some confidence.

That is one spot Jennings should really help. He is great in transition.

Sorry man. They have Steph Curry. Checkout how many of them are three's off turnovers. Curry pulls up to shoot a three when he has wide open layups off turnovers. Jennings can pull up for three like that off turnovers, RJ not so much, KCP has at times

[Blkbrd671]

Pistons are 6th in opp TOs at 17.1 per game. Warriors are 4th at 17.7.

Pistons avg 9.8 ppg in transition. Warriors avg 24.

That is 14 ppg of untapped offense we could be capitalizing on but aren't.

Getting our run game going off these turnovers could be the trick to fixing the offense. No reason they can score 24 ppg off 17 TO/gm and we can't. We are just as fast and athletic.

We aren't as skilled though in terms of shooting. i wonder how many of those transition points include transition 3's. Also GSW push the ball like no other team in this league. i've never seen so many in bound passes directly to half court. i do agree though that we should a lot closer to GS or we have potential too. I fully expect that to increase with BJ who thrives in transition

This sounds crazy but those pts in transition are the only difference between GS offense and ours right now (points wise). They avg 113 ppg. We avg 98 ppg. If we were maximizing our points off turnovers like they are, we'd be avg 112 ppg, and have a better FG% too getting more layups/dunks in transition. It would probably make guys better jumpshooters in the halfcourt too, getting some easy ones first to build some confidence.

That is one spot Jennings should really help. He is great in transition.

read this after i wrote above comment. EXACTLY!!!!! except that they have steph curry and thompson which KCP and RJ will never be in terms of fg%

[Blkbrd671]

Sorry man. They have Steph Curry. Checkout how many of them are three's off turnovers. Curry pulls up to shoot a three when he has wide open layups off turnovers. Jennings can pull up for three like that off turnovers, RJ not so much, KCP has at times

i do believe that jennings at his peak in Mil. was similar to Curry's numbers in terms of efficiency on transition 3's. I recall SVG mentioning his suprising efficiency. KCP i think is better at it than we think, but like all things with him, its a matter of if he believes it'll go in.

[Todd3]

Pistons are 6th in opp TOs at 17.1 per game. Warriors are 4th at 17.7.

Pistons avg 9.8 ppg in transition. Warriors avg 24.

That is 14 ppg of untapped offense we could be capitalizing on but aren't.

Getting our run game going off these turnovers could be the trick to fixing the offense. No reason they can score 24 ppg off 17 TO/gm and we can't. We are just as fast and athletic.

This sounds crazy but those pts in transition are the only difference between GS offense and ours right now (points wise). They avg 113 ppg. We avg 98 ppg. If we were maximizing our points off turnovers like they are, we'd be avg 112 ppg, and have a better FG% too getting more layups/dunks in transition. It would probably make guys better jumpshooters in the halfcourt too, getting some easy ones first to build some confidence.

That is one spot Jennings should really help. He is great in transition.

Sorry man. They have Steph Curry. Checkout how many of them are three's off turnovers. Curry pulls up to shoot a three when he has wide open layups off turnovers. Jennings can pull up for three like that off turnovers, RJ not so much, KCP has at times

That extra point Curry gets off transition 3s as opposed to taking the layup isn't why they avg 24 in transition and us only 10.

We don't score more in transition because we don't run as much as them. When they get it, they run. When we get it, we secure the ball and walk it up into the halfcourt.

That is the big difference there. We just need to make a more concerted effort to run off turnovers.

Yes they will score a little more taking 3s instead of layups, so maybe we score 20 ppg instead of 24. That is still a lot of easy points we are leaving on the court.

[Todd3]

Pistons are 6th in opp TOs at 17.1 per game. Warriors are 4th at 17.7.

Pistons avg 9.8 ppg in transition. Warriors avg 24.

That is 14 ppg of untapped offense we could be capitalizing on but aren't.

Getting our run game going off these turnovers could be the trick to fixing the offense. No reason they can score 24 ppg off 17 TO/gm and we can't. We are just as fast and athletic.

We aren't as skilled though in terms of shooting. i wonder how many of those transition points include transition 3's. Also GSW push the ball like no other team in this league. i've never seen so many in bound passes directly to half court. i do agree though that we should a lot closer to GS or we have potential too. I fully expect that to increase with BJ who thrives in transition

This sounds crazy but those pts in transition are the only difference between GS offense and ours right now (points wise). They avg 113 ppg. We avg 98 ppg. If we were maximizing our points off turnovers like they are, we'd be avg 112 ppg, and have a better FG% too getting more layups/dunks in transition. It would probably make guys better jumpshooters in the halfcourt too, getting some easy ones first to build some confidence.

That is one spot Jennings should really help. He is great in transition.

read this after i wrote above comment. EXACTLY!!!!! except that they have steph curry and thompson which KCP and RJ will never be in terms of fg%

You don't need to have great shooters to score in transition. Often its the poorest shooting teams scoring the most transition pts. Because they don't have the shooters to score enough in the halfcourt, so they rely on forcing turnovers to get some easy dunks/layups in transition.

Which is what we should be doing when our shots aren't going in the halfcourt.

[Blkbrd671]

You don't need to have great shooters to score in transition. Often its the poorest shooting teams scoring the most transition pts. Because they don't have the shooters to score enough in the halfcourt, so they rely on forcing turnovers to get some easy dunks/layups in transition.

Which is what we should be doing when our shots aren't going in the halfcourt.

your right, but if you want to be GSW esq. You have to have good shooters. We do agree, we need more than 9.8 transition points with this struggling offense

[NCHeels2008]

we should be able to get over 1 point per possession in transition, 20 might be a midge high but 18 should be extremely doable