Game 16: Detroit Pistons (8-7) @ Former Seattle Supersonics (10-6)

[engelbert321]

There is NOT a single 2-way elite SG in today's league. KCP is fine as our starting SG.

Jimmy Butler
Klay Thompson
Dwyane Wade
Danny Green
Wes Matthews

There are six off the top of my head, without looking into stats.

ELITE, guys. ELITE. Not above average. I will let Butler slide, but the rest, even Wade, are not ELITE both sides of the floor.

I'm talking about the Kobe, the MJ, and prime DWade of the world. Not Danny **** Green.

[mattao313]

People have been pleased with Ersan? He's been pretty underwhelming imo.

[Arp590]

People have been pleased with Ersan? He's been pretty underwhelming imo.

I think he's actually been pretty good and the advanced stats agree with me.
The only criticism is that he doesn't shoot enough, but that is simply a coaching issue.
He takes a lot of charges and he is shooting 3 pointers at a high percentage.
He tends to show too much on the ball handler on screens and it's really hard for him to get back to his man.. but that is also coaching.

[ImHeisenberg]

There is NOT a single 2-way elite SG in today's league. KCP is fine as our starting SG.

Jimmy Butler
Klay Thompson
Dwyane Wade
Danny Green
Wes Matthews

There are six off the top of my head, without looking into stats.

ELITE, guys. ELITE. Not above average. I will let Butler slide, but the rest, even Wade, are not ELITE both sides of the floor.

Outside of Green (who's making $10 milion per), all of the above stated players are earning $15+ million per year.

I wouldn't qualify all of them as elite (which is a subjective opinion), but they're all very good two way players.

If you're going to be a one-way player, you better be incredible on that one side of the ball. KCP isn't going to be our guy if we want to be more than a treadmill team.

[mattao313]

People have been pleased with Ersan? He's been pretty underwhelming imo.

I think he's actually been pretty good and the advanced stats agree with me.
The only criticism is that he doesn't shoot enough, but that is simply a coaching issue.
He takes a lot of charges and he is shooting 3 pointers at a high percentage.
He tends to show too much on the ball handler on screens and it's really hard for him to get back to his man.. but that is also coaching.

I really don't care about the advanced stats. Besides the occasional 3 and charge he is pretty forgettable. Can't rebound passes up open shots on the regular not horrible on D but mediocre. I guess I was expecting more.

[Snakebites]

People have been pleased with Ersan? He's been pretty underwhelming imo.

I think he's actually been pretty good and the advanced stats agree with me.
The only criticism is that he doesn't shoot enough, but that is simply a coaching issue.
He takes a lot of charges and he is shooting 3 pointers at a high percentage.
He tends to show too much on the ball handler on screens and it's really hard for him to get back to his man.. but that is also coaching.

I really don't care about the advanced stats. Besides the occasional 3 and charge he is pretty forgettable. Can't rebound passes up open shots on the regular not horrible on D but mediocre. I guess I was expecting more.

And Ilyasova has been what was advertised of him. He hasn't been a great player, but you don't have to be a great player to be the second best player on a team that's really only had one particularly good player so far.

[hoophabit]

Jimmy Butler
Klay Thompson
Dwyane Wade
Danny Green
Wes Matthews

There are six off the top of my head, without looking into stats.

ELITE, guys. ELITE. Not above average. I will let Butler slide, but the rest, even Wade, are not ELITE both sides of the floor.

Outside of Green (who's making $10 milion per), all of the above stated players are earning $15+ million per year.

I wouldn't qualify all of them as elite (which is a subjective opinion), but they're all very good two way players.

If you're going to be a one-way player, you better be incredible on that one side of the ball. KCP isn't going to be our guy if we want to be more than a treadmill team.

If we look at Butler's career path we find that in his 3rd season he scored 13.1 pts on .397 shooting, and shot .283 from 3, but he did bring really good defense.

So far in his 3rd season KCP is scoring 13.1 pts on .398 shooting, and is shooting .311 from 3, but brings really good defense.

I think there's some danger of jumping to conclusions here. Had the Bulls dumped Butler during or after year 3 would they be congratulating themselves now?

[mattao313]

I think he's actually been pretty good and the advanced stats agree with me.
The only criticism is that he doesn't shoot enough, but that is simply a coaching issue.
He takes a lot of charges and he is shooting 3 pointers at a high percentage.
He tends to show too much on the ball handler on screens and it's really hard for him to get back to his man.. but that is also coaching.

I really don't care about the advanced stats. Besides the occasional 3 and charge he is pretty forgettable. Can't rebound passes up open shots on the regular not horrible on D but mediocre. I guess I was expecting more.

And Ilyasova has been what was advertised of him. He hasn't been a great player, but you don't have to be a great player to be the second best player on a team that's really only had one particularly good player so far.

You think he's been our second best player on the team? If so I totally disagree I think he is the weakest of the starters and it would be debateable between him and Tolliver if he could be better from 3.

[Arp590]

I really don't care about the advanced stats. Besides the occasional 3 and charge he is pretty forgettable. Can't rebound passes up open shots on the regular not horrible on D but mediocre. I guess I was expecting more.

And Ilyasova has been what was advertised of him. He hasn't been a great player, but you don't have to be a great player to be the second best player on a team that's really only had one particularly good player so far.

You think he's been our second best player on the team? If so I totally disagree I think he is the weakest of the starters and it would be debateable between him and Tolliver if he could be better from 3.

Tolliver is a clown. He's shooting 31% FG and 34% from 3 point, the last 3 good games upped his percentages by a lot, but he is still garbage.
Compare that to Ersan who is shooting 43% from 3 point... and people are complaining about guys not making shots? Looks like we have a guy that can make shots.

[mattao313]

And Ilyasova has been what was advertised of him. He hasn't been a great player, but you don't have to be a great player to be the second best player on a team that's really only had one particularly good player so far.

You think he's been our second best player on the team? If so I totally disagree I think he is the weakest of the starters and it would be debateable between him and Tolliver if he could be better from 3.

Tolliver is a clown. He's shooting 31% FG and 34% from 3 point, the last 3 good games upped his percentages by a lot, but he is still garbage.
Compare that to Ersan who is shooting 43% from 3 point... and people are complaining about guys not making shots? Looks like we have a guy that can make shots.

He is much better defensively. I already said Tolliver is bad from 3.

[Snakebites]

I really don't care about the advanced stats. Besides the occasional 3 and charge he is pretty forgettable. Can't rebound passes up open shots on the regular not horrible on D but mediocre. I guess I was expecting more.

And Ilyasova has been what was advertised of him. He hasn't been a great player, but you don't have to be a great player to be the second best player on a team that's really only had one particularly good player so far.

You think he's been our second best player on the team? If so I totally disagree I think he is the weakest of the starters and it would be debateable between him and Tolliver if he could be better from 3.

Tolliver is shooting like 30% on the year. I think we can go ahead and remove him from most discussions at this point. He's currently on one of the few teams that would even give him playing time.

When you say "if he'd be better from 3" that just sounds silly. since threes were all he ever contributed to this team and he can't even do that anymore. You sound like the mayor from Washington DC in the 90s who said "Washington D.C. actually has a very low crime rate if we could just remove the murders from the statistics".

[Arp590]

You think he's been our second best player on the team? If so I totally disagree I think he is the weakest of the starters and it would be debateable between him and Tolliver if he could be better from 3.

Tolliver is a clown. He's shooting 31% FG and 34% from 3 point, the last 3 good games upped his percentages by a lot, but he is still garbage.
Compare that to Ersan who is shooting 43% from 3 point... and people are complaining about guys not making shots? Looks like we have a guy that can make shots.

He is much better defensively. I already said Tolliver is bad from 3.

Well seeing how we're last in TS%.. we should probably look to improve our offense. Tolliver on defense isn't that great of an improvement over Ersan to make up for the lack of offense.

[mattao313]

And Ilyasova has been what was advertised of him. He hasn't been a great player, but you don't have to be a great player to be the second best player on a team that's really only had one particularly good player so far.

You think he's been our second best player on the team? If so I totally disagree I think he is the weakest of the starters and it would be debateable between him and Tolliver if he could be better from 3.

Tolliver is shooting like 30% on the year. I think we can go ahead and remove him from most discussions at this point. He's currently on one of the few teams that would even give him playing time.

When you say "if he'd be better from 3" that just sounds silly. since threes were all he ever contributed to this team and he can't even do that anymore. You sound like the mayor from Washington DC in the 90s who said "Washington D.C. actually has a very low crime rate if we could just remove the murders from the statistics".

I think he better defensively. And Tolliver is having a down year from 3 it's not crazy to think he can get better.

[Snakebites]

Tolliver is a clown. He's shooting 31% FG and 34% from 3 point, the last 3 good games upped his percentages by a lot, but he is still garbage.
Compare that to Ersan who is shooting 43% from 3 point... and people are complaining about guys not making shots? Looks like we have a guy that can make shots.

He is much better defensively. I already said Tolliver is bad from 3.

Well seeing how we're last in TS%.. we should probably look to improve our offense. Tolliver on defense isn't that great of an improvement over Ersan to make up for the lack of offense.

There's a concept in baseball that essentially says that, if a player is below a certain level in terms of offensive production, it doesn't matter how good they are in other aspects- they shouldn't be playing regularly.

Tolliver is definitely at that point right now, and lets not pretend he's an all nba defender anyway, please.