Game 17: Detroit Pistons (8-8) @ Brooklyn Nets (3-13) - 6:00 PM ET

[mercury]

How many more W's would the team have if Dre hit 60% of his FTs?

[Maker_84]

This team is a train wreck

[Todd3]

Billups was our best post up player, doesn't mean we posted him every possession. If RJ wants to be our SG then by all means go ahead, but as our PG he's behind the wheel of our offense. He needs to get our players going, and when RJ is looking to do that, eye test indicates we respond. The problem is RJ attacks the pnr , forces help side and can't seem to find the right decision between attack the rim, lob to dre, or pass out to open guy. Our offense can be intiated by any individual, while it should start with RJ, it doesn't have to end with him.

What i do think would help is SJ into the starting lineup in place of morris. Simply because SJ is more active off the ball, and part of the problem is our off men aren't filling the lanes for RJ when he is in trouble. Defensively we also have to take more advantage of TO points, something jennings was masterful at.

I don't follow the Billups analogy. Given the reason I said Jackson iso's so much is because he has no one else around him who can score/shoot, and Billups never needed to post up all day with scorers/shooters galore around him in Rasheed/Hamilton/Prince/McDyess etc.

Except

Hamilton never went out and got his offense, his offense was coming off screens and picks, but still facilitated mostly by Billups. Prince was essentially our clean up player with the occasional iso, and Mcdyess and Sheed where effective when they got the ball in areas of strength which again was facilitated.

Now Billups didn't always make the pass but he recognized the flow of the game and when he needed to expose the defense himself or use his teammates to intiate the offense. RJ currently struggles with that recognition especially over the course of the game which again is youth.

Reggie is basically 2002-03 Chauncey right now, when he had Michael Curry, Cliff Robinson, Ben Wallace, and Richard Hamilton around him and it was all on him and Hamilton to carry the scoring. Except Reggie doesn't have an all star SG to pass to, and has one of the worst benches all time, while Chauncey had one of the best shooters in the league next to him and the best scoring bench that year.

Brandon jennings got production from sh* roster. RJ needs to get production from this sh* roster, which is actually improved.

This current Pistons team w/ Reggie & Dre is essentially what the '03 team would have been if we just had Chauncey & Ben, no Hamilton and no bench. It would have been on Chauncey to carry the offense every night and would've looked just like Reggie now.

I would love to see SJ in the starting lineup too. Its time to change things up.

leaning on a rookie isn't the best bet. I think SJ will help, but RJ needs to figure out the team and the defenses. He's currently struggling.

That is the point though. Reggie has no one to facilitate to even close to Hamilton/Sheed/Prince. If he had consistent shooter/scorers of that caliber, I believe he would be utilizing them.

He made comments after the game that guys need to shoot when open, saying if he gets them an open look once, he probably isn't going to be able to get them a second open look within only 24 seconds. I think what he is referring to is guys always passing up open 3s all the time to try and go iso instead, only to end up passing back to Reggie with the clock low and making him have to create another look for them or shoot a low % shot himself. That happens a lot and accounts for some of Reggie's "hero ball" moments and turnovers at the end of clock situations, when its really others not shooting earlier when they had the chance that's causing him to. Perhaps that has something to do with him not passing at all sometimes too, because he is getting tired of working to get guys open looks and them not taking them. Ersan, Morris, and KCP all do that a lot.

Jennings got production from a crap roster for 15 games, but I think people forget that he was basically the same iso/hero ball PG as Reggie during the other 100+ games. Reggie got production from a crap roster for 15 games last year too. I think both are really good players, but I don't think either are good enough to carry a crap roster for a whole season though, which we are seeing now with Reggie, and Jennings just didn't play long enough to see it happen to him too, so all people remember is him looking like a superstar those 15 games and think he is better. The truth is they are probably both about the same talents, but fortunately the 2 combined probably can be enough to carry a crap roster for a whole season, because when one is having an off night the other will likely be on. If a platoon system is what we need at PG to win this year until we get better talent, fine by me.

I dont' expect SJ to make a big difference individually, but I think making some kind of change is necessary at this point, if for nothing else than to just try a different chemistry. Stanley isn't shy about shooting when open either, which we need more of in that lineup. Maybe it will lead to others doing the same.

[russkopp]

All of this isn't Reggie's fault and teams know they can pack the paint and we'll brick our shots so who cares. Blake moves the ball a bit better but he's doesn't fix our shooting % or anything.

Like I saw here earlier, we went 5-1 because we had Kevin Durant (Morris) to take the pressure off Dre and Reggie PNR. Now that everyone's gone back to their norm and below in terms of 3 shooting...we suck.

We're 2 good, NBA players away from being a nice playoff team. As of now it's us and the Magic in the..."well just you wait until next year!!" Category.

[Todd3]

How many more W's would the team have if Dre hit 60% of his FTs?

I don't know but here is an encouraging stat on Dre's FTs:

He is actually 54% FT at the Palace this year. In years past he was 35-40% no matter where. Perhaps that is a sign he is improving, but now just needs to develop the focus to do it everywhere and not just at the Palace, where the crowd is encouraging him instead of laughing.

[Montanabadboy]

I did not watch the game so I'm not defending Jackson, but wow, is the guy not allowed to have a bad game?!? I mean, when he did the same thing earlier in the year and he made the shots and we won, he was the hero. But like I said, I didn't watch the game, I could be completely off bass. Please advise.

[El Chivo]

Awful rotations.

[joedumars1]

How many more W's would the team have if Dre hit 60% of his FTs?

Maybe 1-2.

[Neptune]

Damn, we need a 3rd option on this team badly!

[mattao313]

He made comments after the game that guys need to shoot when open, saying if he gets them an open look once, he probably isn't going to be able to get them a second open look within only 24 seconds. I think what he is referring to is guys always passing up open 3s all the time to try and go iso instead, only to end up passing back to Reggie with the clock low and making him have to create another look for them or shoot a low % shot himself. That happens a lot and accounts for some of Reggie's "hero ball" moments and turnovers at the end of clock situations, when its really others not shooting earlier when they had the chance that's causing him to. Perhaps that has something to do with him not passing at all sometimes too, because he is getting tired of working to get guys open looks and them not taking them. Ersan, Morris, and KCP all do that a lot.

I agree so much with this. KCP and Morris have no confidence in their shot at all. Last year KCP shot 3's at will no matter what now he pump fakes and trys to drive. While he is improve in that area he isn't good enough to do it consistently. Morris often gives up looks just to get a contested long 2. Ersan is scared to shoot for some reason.

While Reggie has his WTF moments at times if guys just took the shots they get and hit them with decent consistency people wouldn't be complaining. Look at what he did last year when guys weren't scared to shoot.

[Todd3]

He made comments after the game that guys need to shoot when open, saying if he gets them an open look once, he probably isn't going to be able to get them a second open look within only 24 seconds. I think what he is referring to is guys always passing up open 3s all the time to try and go iso instead, only to end up passing back to Reggie with the clock low and making him have to create another look for them or shoot a low % shot himself. That happens a lot and accounts for some of Reggie's "hero ball" moments and turnovers at the end of clock situations, when its really others not shooting earlier when they had the chance that's causing him to. Perhaps that has something to do with him not passing at all sometimes too, because he is getting tired of working to get guys open looks and them not taking them. Ersan, Morris, and KCP all do that a lot.

I agree so much with this. KCP and Morris have no confidence in their shot at all. Last year KCP shot 3's at will no matter what now he pump fakes and trys to drive. While he is improve in that area he isn't good enough to do it consistently. Morris often gives up looks just to get a contested long 2. Ersan is scared to shoot for some reason.

While Reggie has his WTF moments at times if guys just took the shots they get and hit them with decent consistency people wouldn't be complaining. Look at what he did last year when guys weren't scared to shoot.

yep, this offense isn't really designed to have a ton of ball movement or options. Its Reggie & Dre pick and roll surrounded by 3 shooters, and if a 3rd defender comes over on the pick and roll Reggie passes to the open man for 3, and he has to shoot it, and the possession ends there make or not (unless an OREB). If no one helps, Reggie uses the pick to get to the rim and either shoots or passes to Dre, and make or not the possession ends there (unless an OREB).

It sounds too simple and predictable to work consistently, but if they master it , it will get someone a good look every time and that is the goal of every scheme no matter how complex. And if they commit to it,, even if they aren't making em they have to keep doing it, because its designed so that over the course of a game the percentages will play in our favor. If we only play the offense the right way once in a while though, the percentages aren't going to add up the same and the offense isn't going to work.

Reggie said multiple times that guys need to do their job. I think that is what he meant. And there is really no excuse for them to not be doing it considering how simple it is.

These Ersan pump fakes and Morris passing open 3s for contested long 2s makes no sense. Most shooters love to shoot. Our guys don't for some reason. That is why I think Swaggy P would be a good fit , because his shoot-with-no-regard attitude would actually be an asset here - and he is a great shooter. He takes 8 FGA's per game, 5 of them from three, and he makes 41%. That is exactly what we need at the 2/3 and he can play either spot at 6-7 and has a great contract. That is who Stan needs to get.

[Blomberg]

This team puzzles me. Lost to Kings, Lakers, Bucks (in a blowout fashion) and now Nets. On the other hand they have won and sometimes dominated good teams like Hawks, Cavs, Bulls and Jazz. It has to be because theyre young and they havent played together for long. Wildly inconsistent.

[MotownMadness]

This team puzzles me. Lost to Kings, Lakers, Bucks (in a blowout fashion) and now Nets. On the other hand they have won and sometimes dominated good teams like Hawks, Cavs, Bulls and Jazz. It has to be because theyre young and they havent played together for long. Wildly inconsistent.

Its starting to look like laziness and just playing down to your competition. Im sure we can rattle off some sort of 5 game win streak or something soonnthough to get back in things.

[Liqourish]

How many more W's would the team have if Dre hit 60% of his FTs?

We've only lost 2 games (@Clippers & @Nets) where his missed free throws were higher than the point discrepancy at the end of the game. Therefore, 2 tops.

[BigFatBob]

Damn, we need a 3rd option on this team badly!

What about Kentavious and as you say "your guy" Marcus Morris

[Todd3]

This team puzzles me. Lost to Kings, Lakers, Bucks (in a blowout fashion) and now Nets. On the other hand they have won and sometimes dominated good teams like Hawks, Cavs, Bulls and Jazz. It has to be because theyre young and they havent played together for long. Wildly inconsistent.

Here is something to consider:

The Kings, Lakers, Bucks, Nets games were all on the road.

The Cavs, Bulls, Jazz, MIA games were all at the Palace.

Maybe we aren't playing up/down to the opponent. Maybe the answer is we just aren't a good road team yet. Which is normal for all young teams when first learning how to win.

[Hotmayo]

I really wish we could have gotten Batum. He can play efficient and is another good playmaker.

i wanted batum so bad. he was my next top target after we landed jackson. fukdddjudgeee oh well

heres to hoping jennings and meeks can make us a better team bc i dont even know what svg can do with this ****. lmao

Probably would have cost at least a swap of 2015 first rounders. Expiring Batum and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson(@pick23) for Stanley Johnson - would you do it?

I really woudlve thought about it hard, but yea i think i would have.

[MrBigShot]

If there was ever a game that could show what a core of Stanley/Dre/Reggie could do down the line, it would be this one.

[The Moose]

was that Reggie yelling at Harden when he was taking those free throws?